Flight to 62D - Ohio.

saracelica

saracelica

Pattern Altitude
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saracelica
For those who want a challenge runway to land on...try 62D. It's East of Cleveland. 2907 x 30 feet. Trees at the end are an understatement. Did a short field to get out of there. Prior to take off my instructor (Yep got another free ride to make sure to save my tookus) he said "We can try the landing again if you want - after departure and clear of the obstacles he said "Not doing that one again"

So got out to the airport and my previous instructor/friend was with a new primary student. They did ground school and so I offered the student (Steve) to tag along so he can see what he'll be able to do at the end of his training. Steve looked at Dave (The instructor) and said "Can I?" Dave said "She's PIC it's her choice" :goofy:

We pre-flighted (they did the preflight as part of his ground school)and off we went. Weather was good. Density Altitude was a little thick (2500 when "normal" is 622) got off the ground and I forgot how heavy the Warrior (PA-28) is when there is someone in the backseat. Got near Sandusky (SKY) and Dave called up Cleveland to see if we can cut through. We were cleared through Class B! :yesnod: Found 62D and on short final Dave "helped" get it down and land. Took off and circled over to Nelson Ledges (Road course) so I could take some pictures. Being married for 2 years it's harder and harder to think of gifts for the BH. So since he use to run his car on Nelson Ledges I thought it'd be fun to take pictures of it and give it as gift. Steve (who is 6'6") offered to take pictures for me. Haven't looked to see if they are any good shots yet. Got cleared through Class B on the way back home again. Coming into the home field got a little befuddled (or as Steve said "took the scenic route around the pattern") and to *Fix* it my previous instructor pulled the power and said "Land on 14". Oh a challenge I like it. He thought I put the flaps in a little early but it worked out for me. Fun flight.
Steve was able to get good flight experience and xc time on my dime. He learned about V speeds and xc planning.

I could barely sleep last night it was so cool. 3 weeks without flying may have been too long. I don't know how people can go so long without flying!

Lesson I learned:
- Fun to challenge myself on landings on (short and narrow) but know when I can't do it and bring someone with experience to help.

- Class B airspace is busy I need to work on my radio responses (but no I don't have an interest in doing simulations I like seat of my pants)

- Not really one I learned but overheard on the radio...a guy got IFR clearance on the ground and was told to hold for departure, or something like that. But he decided to take off VFR (it was a VFR day - that's why I was out there) ATC did not like that at all! So if you file IFR and get the clearance on the ground stay on the ground until you are cleared to go.
 
saracelica said:
- Not really one I learned but overheard on the radio...a guy got IFR clearance on the ground and was told to hold for departure, or something like that. But he decided to take off VFR (it was a VFR day - that's why I was out there) ATC did not like that at all! So if you file IFR and get the clearance on the ground stay on the ground until you are cleared to go.
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Well I'm not sure why ATC was upset. It's a common practice to depart VFR and then activate your IFR plan when in contact with ATC. Sometimes that's done by just departing without getting your clearance, and then "picking it up" in the air by calling ATC on the radio. The other way it's done is to contact ATC on the ground and get the clearance (so you know the route to expect), and you still depart VFR, and then when you contact ATC you "activate" your clearance and become IFR at that time.

And of course the third way is to hold on the ground for your release.
 
He was to hold for release but he departed VFR already getting his IFR clearance. :)

Cleveland ATC was nice to me so that's all I cared. :)
 
Likely he filed for a departure time where his 30 minute window had not opened yet so he was jumping the line ...
Or the controller might have conflicting traffic coming head on where this guy wanted to go and needed to wait for the conflicting traffic to pass by...

So he left VFR and was wanting to bust into occupied IFR airspace, which got the controller grumpy... If I were the controller he would have gotten a phone number to call.. It is called CONTROLLED airspace for a reason and you don't get to just jump up and say here I am...

But, I still suspect he was trying to push up the filed departure time and the controller had a conflict or it was so early the computer would not open the filed flight plan for the controller yet...
 
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Another fun strip for you to try is the Parr airport north of Zanesville (42I). Roughly the same length, a bit more narrow besides. Of course, there are a lot more little turf strips that are tighter still, but your club might not want you landing their aircraft there.
 
> So if you file IFR and get the clearance on the ground stay on the ground
> until you are cleared to go.

I disagree. He was simply using all the tools in his bag. The change altered
the controller's original plan (expectation).

> he left VFR and was wanting to bust into occupied IFR airspace

It's not "IFR" airspace. VFR ops are permitted in CBA. Composite VFR/IFR
flight ops are not typical, but they are legal and can be VERY helpful for
both pilots and controllers.
 
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Sounds like a fun day. It's good to stretch a little and take a stab at challenges. Before long you will look back and wonder why you thought that field was so tough after you slip into a 2000' strip in a crosswind. :yesnod:
 
Threefingeredjack said:
Sounds like a fun day. It's good to stretch a little and take a stab at challenges. Before long you will look back and wonder why you thought that field was so tough after you slip into a 2000' strip in a crosswind. :yesnod:
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My home field (15G) has 2360' / 2232' available to land on a 37' wide runway at 1200' elevation. I felt like I was threading the needle coming in there early in my training, and when I got to land on some of those 5000'-9000' fields I always felt really high =)

Never seen that airport. Will have to put it on the list when I get unfettered!
 
saracelica said:
He was to hold for release but he departed VFR already getting his IFR clearance. :)
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He should have let ATC know he'd pick up the release in the air. Sounds like he didn't communicate well with ATC.

As Tim notes, there's usually no problem getting a release in the air when you can depart VFR, but you should let ATC know if you plan to do that (in more than one situation, ATC suggested that I consider doing just that to expedite departure).
 
TMetzinger said:
Well I'm not sure why ATC was upset. It's a common practice to depart VFR and then activate your IFR plan when in contact with ATC. Sometimes that's done by just departing without getting your clearance, and then "picking it up" in the air by calling ATC on the radio. The other way it's done is to contact ATC on the ground and get the clearance (so you know the route to expect), and you still depart VFR, and then when you contact ATC you "activate" your clearance and become IFR at that time.

And of course the third way is to hold on the ground for your release.
Click to expand...

Several years ago (before the ADIZ/SFRA and TRACON consolidation), I spent about 30 minutes idling on the ground in Leesburg waiting for a clearance from Dulles. When I finally got it, I was told to "hold for release." After an additional 15 minutes of that and with no no further response from my calls to clearance delivery, I decided to depart VFR.

I called Dulles in the air as a courtesy to let them know that I would proceed VFR, and the guy was not happy. He must have spent a FULL MINUTE chewing me out on frequency. Why? Because I was told to "hold for release," and in his view that meant "hold for release" no matter what.

I was really caught off guard by the reaction. Ironically, after a profuse apology on my part, he calmed down and told me I could go IFR if I wanted, which I did.

Looking back afterwards, what do I suspect may have happened? I suspect that I may have failed to reset my squawk code to VFR before departure, which inadvertently kicked off my IFR flight plan in the system. He never made mention of that, and I honestly couldn't remember what I did with the squawk because I was a bit rattled by the on-air beating that I received. It could be, though, that ATC simply didn't expect me to be a target of any kind in the air because they were expecting me to remain IFR and hold for release.


JKG
 
If I'm planning to depart VFR, I tell ATC that on my initial callup for the clearance.

If they give me a release time too far out, or have me "hold for release" for more than five minutes, then we have a courteous discussion about alternatives.

I once had to wait an HOUR for a clearance out of Bridgeport, but that was do to a Presidential TFR in NYC and ATC couldn't figure out if they could send me through it IFR (which the NOTAM said they could) or if they were really "supposed" to send me around. I filed "around" it, they initially cleared me "through" it, and then as I was taxiing to the hold short line they called with the news that they had to rework my clearance. One hour later I got a route very close to what I'd filed originally.

The important thing is to make sure that you're on the same page with ATC.
 
TMetzinger said:
If they give me a release time too far out, or have me "hold for release" for more than five minutes, then we have a courteous discussion about alternatives.
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How are you supposed to have a "courteous discussion about alternatives" when ATC won't respond after you are told to hold for release?


JKG
 
TMetzinger said:
I call up the phone number in that case after trying a couple of minutes.
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Great plan if you happen to have the phone number and a phone with reception handy, and assuming that they answer and will talk to you on the phone. I've called facilities only to be told to call them on the radio.

In my case, I waited until I was in the air and was able to communicate with them on departure frequency. I saw (and still see) no better alternative given the circumstances of the time. The reality is that I wasn't required to call them at all.


JKG
 
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Here's a picture during flare or roundout. Not sure things happened pretty quick. It doesn't look that small from this angle but it sure did up in Pattern Altitude. Yes a 1978 Piper Warrior.
 

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I look forward to your report on landing there Duncan!
 
Passengers (especially pilots, CFI's, or student pilots) are always fun.

Jealous you are doing what I've been trying to do for months - land at a tiny strip. The first time I hired a CFI we got there and said we should turn back (direct crosswind). The second time I had an almost CFI for free (his checkride for CFI is next week) he said let's not go because of how long our takeoff roll was at my home airport. So now I have this fly-in coming up at a somewhat difficult airport in August. I'd like to hire a CFI before that to work on difficult runways but I'm pretty booked up. We shall see.
 
7D9 is on my list of Ohio small strips to hit. Gotta add 62D now, too.
 
Try Roosterville in MO (0N0).

2780 x 20 ft

The length is fine, but it is by far the narrowest runway I have ever landed on.
 
steingar said:
Long damn flight from Toledo.
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Yeah that would be! I have no intentions of landing on another narrow runway on purpose. The intent for this trip was to fly over Nelson Ledges for pics and to make it worth my while I needed someplace to land and I did "KLPR" already. :)
 
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