Flight Simulator?

[integra144]

I’m an aspiring pilot and I thought it would be a good idea to by something called Microsoft Flight Simulator. I am pretty sure you guys have heard of that. Which do you guys recommend; everyone tell me Microsoft as it is the most realistic. Do you guys concur? Also is it worth it to buy the newest one X or is an older one 2004 or 2002 just fine? I have friend who has 2004 and will give it to me. So X is more of a cosmetic upgrade like Vista versus XP. Also I have new computer, but it’s a laptop that is more geared for business being a Thinkpad, so it may not be able to run graphic intensive games.
Thanks

 

[gprellwitz]

I'd recommend holding off from Flight Sim for now. When you start, it's going to be very visual, and FS won't help on that, and may hurt. Plus, you may develop bad habits. Once you've been flying a while and are working on understanding radio navigation, you may consider going back to FS. It can certainly be helpful for some things, especially in the instrument world. Use it in conjunction with your instructor, though. There are a couple of books out there that address just that. Note that none of your FS time will be loggable.

 

[KennyFlys]

I agree. Leave MSFS alone for now.

You're starting strictly as a VFR pilot and flying the simulator is just about anything but that. It might be good later as an instrument pilot learning to trust gauges but only then if you have a yoke and pedal setup.

Put your home time into studying the knowledge material. After you start flying and know what should be happening in the cockpit, you can do "chair flying" at home where you work through procedures for a helpful memory exercise.

 

[Tristar]

Although I do agree with a few of Grant's comments, I've actually heard of some advantages from CFIs. Although, no, it will not give you the vital realistic feelings of a real airplane you will need, it will give you a head start on seeing how the instruments work and the relations it shows. Such as in the basics of a climb, you can see which instruments will react; the altimeter, airspeed, attitude, etc will act very similar to the real thing. You need to understand your instruments in VFR before going to your instrument rating anyways. I don't suggest basing all of your knowledge on a flight simulator not approved for the school but there is nothing wrong with getting a general idea of the basics.

Microsoft flight sim 2004 worked fine for me.

*My two cents*
Tristan

 

[stingray]

I think using MFS is a good thing if you do it right. It will help with the book learning. ADF VOR DG and such. Don't worry much about the flying as much as understanding what gauge does what and how it works. We use MFS right on through the ground school classes. Look at the problem in the book and duplicate it on the screen. As others have said it will help very little knowing how to fly. It would be like trying to learn how to ride a a two wheel bike on a computer. It takes feel and you only get that from the real thing. Get the 2004 for free and invest in a yoke not the pedals on ebay. Look for CH yoke.

Dan

 

[poadeleted20]

I'd say wait until you have a lesson or two, and then try using the MSFS to practice what you've learned (and only what you've learned) from your instructor. Otherwise, you risk teaching yourself bad habits that your instructor will have to spend time breaking before teaching you the right way. Make sure you coordinate this with your instructor so s/he is giving you appropriate practice assignments to try at home.

 

[ScottM]

I'd recommend holding off from Flight Sim for now.

I agree. Leave MSFS alone for now.

I'd say wait until you have a lesson or two, and then try using the MSFS to practice what you've learned (and only what you've learned) from your instructor.

I agree with all of these guys. The biggest risk is getting into bad habits. The number 1 bad habit for PP students is spending too much time with you head in the cockpit instead of learning fly looking out the window. At your level of skill being able to fly by outside reference is what you want to be learning. The inside stuff, e.g. what to look at will, will be much more apparent to you when you learn what it looks like out the window.

 

[integra144]

ok thanks guys. Ill take my friends 2004 version, but wont install it till after speaking with the intructor and he/she directs me to.

 

[rottydaddy]

I'd recommend you at least wait until you start your real-life lessons, based on my own experience:

I didn't discover MSFS until I had a few lessons under my belt, and when a friend of mine got himself one of them newfangled "home computer" thingies (this was in 1996), I saw that it came bundled with FS5(?). It was very crude and I flew it with a keyboard, but it did, I believe, help me with two specific things: visualization and timing.

Flying a few virtual circuits around Meigs in the sim gave me a more relaxed chance to look at the big picture of what a pattern is all about, and without the distraction of getting used to the sensations of flight I also gained more insight on how the tasks flow together and how critical energy management is to smooth operations.

I didn't get back into computing or sims until years after I got my ticket, and I'm still a pretty avid MSFS fan (I currently use FS9 and am building a "simpit"), and I still think it does more good than harm to my basic skills, but:

It is mostly for fun. There's a reason it's not approved by the FAA for, say, requirements of instrument training: it's just not that realistic. For example, some models for the sim behave better than others, but very few come even close to replicating critical modes of flight, such as the landing flare. It looks, sounds, and "feels" all wrong, no matter how well you tweak things or what fancy controllers you use. Also, MSFS also does not model mechanical turbulence at all... you're better off learning about that landing at some strip among tall trees or terrain, even though you're playing that game for keeps.

I know some CFIs who say it's very useful for more advanced PP students who are learning radio navigation, etc... but they know as I do that it is not an adequate substitute for real lessons.

If you teach yourself to fly in the sim I am convinced you will have some un-learning to do when you get behind the controls of a real airplane... so keep that in mind.

It's realistic enough to tempt the uninitiated to believe it's just like the real thing, but unrealistic enough to really mess up your thinking if you are pursuing real flight.

But it is FUN! the best part is learning to fly planes you will most likely never fly, and going places you might never get to go.
And once you've soloed and are working on X-C techniques, you may find it useful for "pre-flying" your planned flights... even FS9 has fairly accurate positioning of airports, etc and it really can be a good tool for that.

I like to think of FS as "enhanced chair flying" as it relates to my real-world flying; the old-fashioned way still works just fine, though.

So again, I advise you to concentrate on the real thing for now.

 

[t0r0nad0]

I'm going to go along with Tristan on this one...

I became an avid MSFS user long before setting foot in a real light airplane, and I feel that it really helped me. It didn't help at all with the actual manipulation of the controls and getting a feel for the plane, but what it did help me with was the "book" knowledge, procedural knowledge, and above all else, radio work. I'd say use MSFS (I have the 2004 version, and it works just great for me) and go through the "Lessons" for the Private certificate. You have to suffer through Rod Machado's "humor", but the material is presented in an easy-to-understand manner and it applies to real-world flying.

Also, the in-game ATC is pretty accurate and helped me to learn the lingo, though I did have to break one bad habit from that - using the phrase, "With You". NEVER use that phrase in real life, and if you do, for your own safety, don't admit to it on this board or else you will spark off a huge fecal-material storm. After getting used to the in-game ATC, I would sign up for VATSIM (www.vatsim.net). This is a free online network of MFS pilots and ATC's that use voice chat through your computer headset. I think this above all else helped me with my radio work. Back when I was a nine-hour student, I flew around the Houston Class B with the guy who would later become my mentor in his Bonanza and he thought I was a high-time licensed pilot simply because of my radio work while talking to Approach. It's always been one of my strongest points, and I attribute 95% of it to using VATSIM on MSFS.

I also agree with the above point of "preflying" your x-c trips in the sim. It will help you get a gauge for time between waypoints, and most things on the sectional charts are pretty accurately depicted in the sim (at least the charts that were current in 2004). Also, most ATC frequencies you switch to in the sim are going to be the same ones you'll use in real life, so when you get a handoff from ATC, actually tune the radio yourself instead of just hitting '1' to have the game do it for you.

So, I say use MSFS, but start by going through the lessons. I wouldn't even waste money on a yoke, just get a $30 joystick... the yoke won't help you learn how to drive the real airplane anyway. If you do it this way, then the only bad habits I would think that you'd have to break would be looking inside the cockpit too much and using that bloody "With You" phrase on the radio.

Disclaimer: I'm not a CFI, so consult with yours before you proceed with my advice. I'm just speaking from my experience of going through my student pilot training and becoming a Private Pilot.

 

[ScottM]

Also, the in-game ATC is pretty accurate and helped me to learn the lingo, though I did have to break one bad habit from that - using the phrase, "With You". NEVER use that phrase in real life, and if you do, for your own safety, don't admit to it on this board or else you will spark off a huge fecal-material storm.

I fly around ORD and all the heavy metal jet jocks say 'With you'. Sounds stupid to me but it does not bug me. Not like ATIAPA does!!! That is one where I will go 'medieval on your buttocks' over!

 

[stingray]

I fly around ORD and all the heavy metal jet jocks say 'With you'. Sounds stupid to me but it does not bug me. Not like ATIAPA does!!! That is one where I will go 'medieval on your buttocks' over!

That's probably where they learned it. Didn't they learn to fly on MSFS?

Dan