Flight plan timed out!

[N747JB]

I filed for 5:00 PM local yesterday from Destin to FTY, had a good weekend at the beach with my wife and number 1 son. I know it's hard to believe, but my wife made us just a tad late getting to the airport. Anyway we finally get there, it's probably 6:30, load the airplane, preflight, go inside to get my fuel ticket and take care of a last minute bathroom stop. I called on the FBO phone and got my clearance, no sweat, fired up and taxied out. Called number one for departure, Eglin clears me runway heading to 2000, call airborne. Same clearance I have gotten 50+ times! I am off the runway in 2-3 minutes after talking to Eglin and the controller tells me my flight plan just dropped out of the system! She said the plans drop out after 2 hours, which I knew, but I figured since I had just gotten my clearance that I was OK, suggested that I file another flight plan. I ended up flying VFR at 17,500 until I got to Atlanta approach and they gave me the arrival to keep me out of their way.
I think we were wheels up at 7:01.

 

[roncachamp]

I filed for 5:00 PM local yesterday from Destin to FTY, had a good weekend at the beach with my wife and number 1 son. I know it's hard to believe, but my wife made us just a tad late getting to the airport. Anyway we finally get there, it's probably 6:30, load the airplane, preflight, go inside to get my fuel ticket and take care of a last minute bathroom stop. I called on the FBO phone and got my clearance, no sweat, fired up and taxied out. Called number one for departure, Eglin clears me runway heading to 2000, call airborne. Same clearance I have gotten 50+ times! I am off the runway in 2-3 minutes after talking to Eglin and the controller tells me my flight plan just dropped out of the system! She said the plans drop out after 2 hours, which I knew, but I figured since I had just gotten my clearance that I was OK, suggested that I file another flight plan. I ended up flying VFR at 17,500 until I got to Atlanta approach and they gave me the arrival to keep me out of their way.
I think we were wheels up at 7:01.

You were issued and were operating on a valid IFR clearance. My response to her suggestion would have been, "I suggest you reenter it."

 

[ChrisK]

So the net of it is a controller canceled your IFR flight plan without you first requesting it. Yeah, that is probably bad, even though it sounds like a system problem rather than a controller problem. I'd probably escalate that one just to get the systemic problem fixed!

 

[frfly172]

Why not just file in the air?

 

[N747JB]

So the net of it is a controller canceled your IFR flight plan without you first requesting it. Yeah, that is probably bad, even though it sounds like a system problem rather than a controller problem. I'd probably escalate that one just to get the systemic problem fixed!

She said it just dropped out of the system. It wasn't a big deal, I flew at 17,500 vs 19,000 and had flight following the entire route, until the Atlanta approach controller gave me the diffi2 arrival. I wasn't going to argue, it wasn't an emergency or anything, I would have understood if there was a long delay from my phone call at the FBO. Then I would have expected the controller to tell me at the end of the runway, BEFORE I took off that my clearance was invalid or dropped or whatever. I was just surprised that it happened the way it did.

 

[ChrisK]

She said it just dropped out of the system. It wasn't a big deal, I flew at 17,500 vs 19,000 and had flight following the entire route, until the Atlanta approach controller gave me the diffi2 arrival. I wasn't going to argue, it wasn't an emergency or anything, I would have understood if there was a long delay from my phone call at the FBO. Then I would have expected the controller to tell me at the end of the runway, BEFORE I took off that my clearance was invalid or dropped or whatever. I was just surprised that it happened the way it did.

It is a good point. I suppose it would have been more serious if you were dumped on the ground in IMC, eh? =)

 

[dukeblue219]

I'm a little confused here -- what if it had been solid IMC? You took off with a valid clearance and an IFR release, but then were told tough luck, re-file if you want IFR? I would be really, really unhappy flying in IMC while the controller tells me to contact FSS.

 

[roncachamp]

She said it just dropped out of the system. It wasn't a big deal, I flew at 17,500 vs 19,000 and had flight following the entire route, until the Atlanta approach controller gave me the diffi2 arrival. I wasn't going to argue, it wasn't an emergency or anything, I would have understood if there was a long delay from my phone call at the FBO. Then I would have expected the controller to tell me at the end of the runway, BEFORE I took off that my clearance was invalid or dropped or whatever. I was just surprised that it happened the way it did.

It didn't drop out of the "system", it dropped out of the computer. The "system" existed and operated for decades without computers and still does so from time to time. When she discovered the flight plan had timed out before it was activated the proper course of action for her was to type it into the computer again. I've had to do it from time to time, never mentioned it to a pilot though.

 

[Velocity173]

As Steven said, she should've reentered your flight plan into the FDIO. You were given a valid clearance with a void time. That has nothing to do with your flight plan timing out. A good controller would never have let it get to the point of time out anyway. I've issued clearances before from uncontrolled airports only to look down and see, crap, they're about to time out. That's when you give the strip to data and have them amend the departure time so it doesn't time out.

 

[hindsight2020]

military TRACON, nuff said.

 

[Brad Z]

She said it just dropped out of the system. It wasn't a big deal, I flew at 17,500 vs 19,000 and had flight following the entire route, until the Atlanta approach controller gave me the diffi2 arrival. I wasn't going to argue, it wasn't an emergency or anything, I would have understood if there was a long delay from my phone call at the FBO. Then I would have expected the controller to tell me at the end of the runway, BEFORE I took off that my clearance was invalid or dropped or whatever. I was just surprised that it happened the way it did.

And they issued you an arrival procedure even though you were VFR?

 

[Theboys]

I was given a arrival procedure on sat also flying Vfr into LNK.

 

[N747JB]

And they issued you an arrival procedure even though you were VFR?

Yeah, I didn't ask for it, I told the controller of my plan to stay just west of the Class B, descend until just west of FTY and turn due east towards the field. I told him I normally do this trip IFR, and he offered me the arrival. I am pretty sure it was more for him than me. He didn't give me an IFR clearance, just an arrival procedure.

 

[N747JB]

If I had been IMC, I would have raised hell! It was a beautiful spring evening and VFR wasn't an issue, but I would not have been as easy to get along with if there was any IFR on the route.

I'm a little confused here -- what if it had been solid IMC? You took off with a valid clearance and an IFR release, but then were told tough luck, re-file if you want IFR? I would be really, really unhappy flying in IMC while the controller tells me to contact FSS.

 

[Brad Z]

I was given a arrival procedure on sat also flying Vfr into LNK.

Yeah, I didn't ask for it, I told the controller of my plan to stay just west of the Class B, descend until just west of FTY and turn due east towards the field. I told him I normally do this trip IFR, and he offered me the arrival. I am pretty sure it was more for him than me. He didn't give me an IFR clearance, just an arrival procedure.

Is this a new thing I've missed in the AIM? I'd hate to see a non instrument rated PP issued an arrival procedure to their destination.

 

[MarkZ]

I filed for 5:00 PM local yesterday from Destin to FTY, had a good weekend at the beach with my wife and number 1 son. I know it's hard to believe, but my wife made us just a tad late getting to the airport. Anyway we finally get there, it's probably 6:30, load the airplane, preflight, go inside to get my fuel ticket and take care of a last minute bathroom stop. I called on the FBO phone and got my clearance, no sweat, fired up and taxied out. Called number one for departure, Eglin clears me runway heading to 2000, call airborne. Same clearance I have gotten 50+ times! I am off the runway in 2-3 minutes after talking to Eglin and the controller tells me my flight plan just dropped out of the system! She said the plans drop out after 2 hours, which I knew, but I figured since I had just gotten my clearance that I was OK, suggested that I file another flight plan. I ended up flying VFR at 17,500 until I got to Atlanta approach and they gave me the arrival to keep me out of their way.
I think we were wheels up at 7:01.

Eglin could have handled the situation better, maybe they were busy? Tough to say since they gave you a clearance and released you from the airport, rather than ask you depart VFR and call airborne.

For the other IR pilots, if you are running behind schedule and think you'll run close to the 2 hour time limit after your proposal time, make a quick call to FSS and update your proposal time. You'll save a ton of anguish on both sides.


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[NoHeat]

For the other IR pilots, if you are running behind schedule and think you'll run close to the 2 hour time limit after your proposal time, make a quick call to FSS and update your proposal time. You'll save a ton of anguish on both sides.

I thought that after an IFR plan is filed with FSS, only ATC can see it and change it, not FSS.

 

[jordane93]

For the other IR pilots, if you are running behind schedule and think you'll run close to the 2 hour time limit after your proposal time, make a quick call to FSS and update your proposal time. You'll save a ton of anguish on both sides.

I've done this many times when I'm behind schedule or even ahead of schedule. Its really a quick fix

 

[MarkZ]

I thought that after an IFR plan is filed with FSS, only ATC can see it and change it, not FSS.

FSS can make changes while the flight plan is in proposal state. Once active, (I think) only ATC can change IFR flight plan information.


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[weilke]

FSS can make changes while the flight plan is in proposal state. Once active, (I think) only ATC can change IFR flight plan information.

It has been my experience that in those cases the FSS briefer says 'standby while I call center to amend your flight-plan'. They know who holds the plan at that point and have a number they can call to get the changes made.