Flight Following

lsimonds

lsimonds

Pre-Flight
Joined
Feb 25, 2005
Messages
78
Location
Texas
Display Name
Lisa Simonds
Home Airfield
DFW Metroplex Airports
Short survey, si vu ple.

1. How would you, in your words, describe your expectation regarding Radar Traffic Information Service (AIM, 4-1-14)?

2. What is your experience with same? Anecdotes welcome.

3. What is your expectation regarding Safety Alerts (AIM, 4-1-15)?

4. What is your experience with same? Anecdotes welcome.

Thanks!

Lisa
 
When on FF on a VFR flight, my expectations are in line with,

"This service is not intended to relieve the pilot of the responsibility for continual vigliance to see and avoid other aircraft."

IOW, ATC radar services can be helpful but no way do I rely on it. I conduct the flight as if it's not there. There have been too many instances where they didn't call traffic, or they did but they continued to direct my attention to traffic (in sight and monitoring) which was no factor. In high traffic environments, while they are being helpful in calling traffic their calls step on a lot of other important communications. This results in increased freq congestion.

Probably the biggest help was when I almost got run over by a 737 descending. I never saw him until he passed at my 6 about 2 miles. He never saw me and if he had an RA he ignored it. I altered course toward the 737. This put him to passing behind me. I was cutting across the approach corridor to LAX about 40 nm out so I was aware of other traffic. This was one I didn't see.



Safety alerts are more helpful but in an unintended manner. It was from a SA I identified that my Kollsman window was set incorrectly. I've gotten lots of SAs and I never ignore them. It's the guy who just now turned on his Mode C that is usually the case. I had a guy in a Baron climb up my tail. I altered course 30* away from him and still no change! ATC gave me an SA but said his alt just disappeared. I never saw the fool so I held my alt while banking my wings and skidding my tail trying to see him.

I've gotten SAs while in IMC about 5 times. Once, I broke out between clouds just in time to see a C-210 slip 100' below me 11 o'clock to 5 o'clock. If at same alt we would have come darn near to swapping paint.

In either case, just because they don't call a SA doesn't mean there's not a plane there. A few times while IFR I, uh, thanked them for not giving me the head's up.
 
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lsimonds said:
Short survey, si vu ple.

1. How would you, in your words, describe your expectation regarding Radar Traffic Information Service (AIM, 4-1-14)?

2. What is your experience with same? Anecdotes welcome.

3. What is your expectation regarding Safety Alerts (AIM, 4-1-15)?

4. What is your experience with same? Anecdotes welcome.

Thanks!

Lisa
Click to expand...

I live in Chicago and fly VFR. What is this service of which you speak?

When I call on the only frequencies I can find evidently they can never hear me.

I have had little trouble outside of Chicago.
 
lsimonds said:
1. How would you, in your words, describe your expectation regarding Radar Traffic Information Service (AIM, 4-1-14)?
Click to expand...
I expect them to let me know about traffic they see on their scope that will get close enough for me to see.

2. What is your experience with same? Anecdotes welcome.
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Generally they fulfill my expectations.

3. What is your expectation regarding Safety Alerts (AIM, 4-1-15)?
Click to expand...
For them to provide the alerts as advertised.

4. What is your experience with same? Anecdotes welcome.
Click to expand...
Haven't had many terrain/obstruction alerts, but they do give them, usually sooner than I would be really worried. Traffic alerts I've gotten many times, and usually before I would have seen the other plane.
 
mikea said:
I live in Chicago and fly VFR. What is this service of which you speak?

When I call on the only frequencies I can find evidently they can never hear me.

I have had little trouble outside of Chicago.
Click to expand...

I live around Chicago too and have heard of the mythical flight following. The story I have been told is that sometime ATC offers this service to pilots that just simply ask for it. The service itself has ATC helping you spot traffic and avoid collisions. Being based around the Chicago Class B with losts og GA activity that could be a blessing but I think it is just a myth. Like the Loch Ness Monster, sasquatch, World Champion Cubs, etc.
 
I usually get FF whenever I ask for it, NYC Class Bravo controllers are top notch, and have even granted me FF when the frequency was so busy it took me ten minutes to get my request in. I like being in the system for a bunch of reasons 1) having approach know who I am what I am and where I'm going allows them to give better traffic info to IFR acft, and other planes 2) they function as a 2nd set of eyes for airspace advoidance which is a serious factor in the airspace near NYC, if I'm about to blunder into Delta or C I'm in radio contact with somebody, and if I'm about to go into Bravo they usually are willing to give me a clearance (yes I'm endorsed). Flight following also might help out if I'm heading towards a MOA or something else, they might not too so I don't depend on them, but at least they are one other set of eyes. 3) if I have a problem I'm already in radio contact with somebody who can help me out, rather than having to broadcast in the blind 4) If I get lost or can't find the airport, FF can give me a vector.

I've seen traffic all over that they haven't called, and when they do call traffic it's usually not a factor, or their reports state where it will be a half min. later. It's still very useful in my book. I've never had any other warnings issued so I can't comment on those.
 
The SE was saturated yesterday. Coming back from Sun-N-Fun, Jax Center was greeting VFR FF pilots with "...VFR services not available" on initial call up. Also heard one controller report that the "system was out of transponder codes". Busy day...

Greg
182RG
 
I expect that they'll help me look for traffic around me, and let me know if they see any. Kind of what I expect from my passengers. I don't expect they'll see 'em all.

I've gotten flight following every time I've asked for it. Philly Approach is excellent working with GA. Wish they could all be so helpful across the country. Been a couple times they haven't given me a handoff, but have given me freqs to try. I tend to expect this when the radio is busy.

As for experiences with them? All good. They usually call traffic before I see it, well before I've got to do anything drastic to avoid a conflict, if any, and it's always hassle free.
 
lsimonds said:
Short survey, si vu ple.

1. How would you, in your words, describe your expectation regarding Radar Traffic Information Service (AIM, 4-1-14)?

2. What is your experience with same? Anecdotes welcome.

3. What is your expectation regarding Safety Alerts (AIM, 4-1-15)?

4. What is your experience with same? Anecdotes welcome.

Thanks!

Lisa
Click to expand...

I fly most x/c under IFR but have used VFR FF many times as well and I like to think of this service as having a non-pilot sitting ih the right seat who's been asked to warn me of any conflicting traffic he sees. IOW it can improve your chances of spotting traffic but not by much and certainly not enough to warrant relaxing your guard.

As to MSAW alerts, i can't remember getting one when flying IFR and according to the AIM you have to specifically ask for it when flying VFR.
 
lsimonds said:
1. How would you, in your words, describe your expectation regarding Radar Traffic Information Service (AIM, 4-1-14)?
Click to expand...

I expect that it's one more tool in the box, one more chance that I'll be able to see the traffic.

2. What is your experience with same? Anecdotes welcome.
Click to expand...

Generally excellent. I rarely go without it. I fly out of Madison (class C) and they provide traffic services either until you're leaving their airspace or until you ask to be let go. About the only time I fly without flight following is if I'm going to an airport that's just a little ways outside MSN's airspace and I'll go without for the last few minutes.

I've flown longer VFR trips as well ("Longer" = 400-1000 nm) and received excellent service over a wide area. I have *not* flown on the east coast except Florida (where Miami Center was great).

The one exception is Chicago Approach. They've talked to me exactly once, and my guess as to why it worked that once is that I had an IFR flight plan on file but decided to go VFR.

3. What is your expectation regarding Safety Alerts (AIM, 4-1-15)?
4. What is your experience with same? Anecdotes welcome.
Click to expand...

Again, it's another tool in the box that hopefully I won't need. I don't know if it even qualifies, but I've had a couple of "warnings" like this: "Nxxxx, do you see those towers at about 11 o'clock and 2 miles?" I've always still been well clear, but I appreciated the warning anyway. Ironically, one of the warnings was from MSN about a new TV tower, and I was on the published obstacle departure procedure from Runway 21 at the time. :dunno:
 
I flew home on Monday from SnF. Tampa Approach was a bit terse with the departures, IFR and VFR. Part of that was due to departing pilots calling up for clearance/FF prior to reaching 10nm from the airport as requested by ATC on the ground at LAL when it is VMC, I suspect. North of Ocala JAX cntr was more relaxed.

On the flight down at 13k the Saturday prior I heard one TPA controller thank an RV flight of two for only using one transponder, as "he didn't need any more data blocks on his screen". Of course, you do turn them off within 30nm of LAL during the week. The controllers along V-198 were most accomodating, pointing out the skydivers above my right wing and the F-15 1000' above opposite direction.

I was on an IFR flight plan both directions. I'm satisfied about 95% of the time I use radar services in my estimate.

ggroves said:
The SE was saturated yesterday. Coming back from Sun-N-Fun, Jax Center was greeting VFR FF pilots with "...VFR services not available" on initial call up. Also heard one controller report that the "system was out of transponder codes". Busy day...

Greg
182RG
Click to expand...
 
Being from Chicago too, I rarely use it in the local area, though by the time I get out to Rockford or so I can usually pick it up. I've had good experience with it, and like having the controllers know who I am so they can give more meaningful reports to other pilots. I've also found on occaision that they've offered that a particular MOA is "cold" so I can proceed direct to my destination, as well as clearing me through Class Bravo. (Obviously not Chicago! :) Actually, both of those incidents were in FL: JAX and MIA.
 
The best part of owning a unique plane like the IAR 823 is ATC inquiring "What kind of plane is an IR23?" after initial call up... :rofl:
 
gprellwitz said:
Being from Chicago too, I rarely use it in the local area, though by the time I get out to Rockford or so I can usually pick it up. I've had good experience with it, and like having the controllers know who I am so they can give more meaningful reports to other pilots. I've also found on occaision that they've offered that a particular MOA is "cold" so I can proceed direct to my destination, as well as clearing me through Class Bravo. (Obviously not Chicago! :) Actually, both of those incidents were in FL: JAX and MIA.
Click to expand...

The people at RFD TRSA are top notch, friendly, GA compatible. When I go out there to shoot aproaches I'll ask them if anyone needs ASR proficiency just so they get the practice as well. Most of the time they will go grab someone from the break room or off another position that needs the practice and they thank me for offering.
 
gprellwitz said:
Being from Chicago too, I rarely use it in the local area, though by the time I get out to Rockford or so I can usually pick it up.
Click to expand...

Grant,

Dunno if this'll help or not, but if you get out a chart you can find the rough border of ChiApp's airspace.

V177 from JVL to JOT goes through ChiApp. The magic trick to staying clear of Chicago from RFD or MSN is to go to KELSI or SHOOF before proceeding eastbound. If you file through KELSI or SHOOF you'll usually get "as filed" and then ZAU will sometimes give you direct to a point further down your flight plan before you get there.

My CFII, being the eternal optimist, still files for V177. "Dakota 8183X, cleared as fil... uhhh, I don't think that's gonna work. Taxi to 21 via Juliet and Bravo, stand by for clearance." :rofl:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Grant,

Dunno if this'll help or not, but if you get out a chart you can find the rough border of ChiApp's airspace.

V177 from JVL to JOT goes through ChiApp. The magic trick to staying clear of Chicago from RFD or MSN is to go to KELSI or SHOOF before proceeding eastbound. If you file through KELSI or SHOOF you'll usually get "as filed" and then ZAU will sometimes give you direct to a point further down your flight plan before you get there.

My CFII, being the eternal optimist, still files for V177. "Dakota 8183X, cleared as fil... uhhh, I don't think that's gonna work. Taxi to 21 via Juliet and Bravo, stand by for clearance." :rofl:
Click to expand...

I find that if I'm heading north to MSN I don't have to go quite that far west immediately, but I do have to go to SIMMN first, then direct. V177 through NUELG just doesn't cut it. They'll usually give me vectors then up to JVL or MSN as I get a little closer to RFD after SIMMN. Filing /G most of the time seems to help.
 
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