Flight Following Includes Terrain Warnings?

kimberlyanne546

kimberlyanne546

Final Approach
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Kimberly
I was trying to see if my flight last night was recorded but I needed to go through listening to several hours of ATC archives (we have a lot of channels and I forgot to write down what time / what freq I was using).

In the process, I heard this man in a 152 in Monterey talking at night to a very unbusy Nor Cal approach controller. He started asking for a service I never knew existed - terrain.

Fast forward all the way to the end, then listen in starting at 29:00

Can anyone tell me what this is about? It seems the man took up a lot of airtime (I was told to keep my radio stuff short and to the point).


To download the mp3 to your device and then play it using your player:

http://www.filedropper.com/koak-app-jan-29-2012-0200z


Another way I'm trying to host this mp3 but it seems you still need to download before it starts playing:

http://content.mp3tunes.com/storage...6e0c5&fileformat=mp3&partner_token=2289522133
 
I can't either of these to work - the file comes up as 0 bytes. PM me and I can host the file on my server for you.

I've never asked for terrain information with flight following, but I have had center advise me "you are below the minimum IFR altitude for this area" (I had plenty of terrain clearance, but the sector had much higher terrain in the vicinity).
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I was trying to see if my flight last night was recorded but I needed to go through listening to several hours of ATC archives (we have a lot of channels and I forgot to write down what time / what freq I was using).

In the process, I heard this man in a 152 in Monterey talking at night to a very unbusy Nor Cal approach controller. He started asking for a service I never knew existed - terrain.

Fast forward all the way to the end, then listen in starting at 29:00

Can anyone tell me what this is about? It seems the man took up a lot of airtime (I was told to keep my radio stuff short and to the point).


To download the mp3 to your device and then play it using your player:

http://www.filedropper.com/koak-app-jan-29-2012-0200z


Another way I'm trying to host this mp3 but it seems you still need to download before it starts playing:

http://content.mp3tunes.com/storage...6e0c5&fileformat=mp3&partner_token=2289522133
Click to expand...

Flight Following includes Safety Alerts; Terrain/Obstruction Alerts and Aircraft Conflict Alerts. See AIM paras 4-1-16 Safety Alert and 5-5-7 Safety Alert.
 
It is common form the center controllers to ask me if I'm aware of the terrain on my route of flight.
 
spinfire said:
I can't either of these to work - the file comes up as 0 bytes. PM me and I can host the file on my server for you.

I've never asked for terrain information with flight following, but I have had center advise me "you are below the minimum IFR altitude for this area" (I had plenty of terrain clearance, but the sector had much higher terrain in the vicinity).
Click to expand...

OK thank you. That would be great. I signed up for the above websites and apparently they both don't work.

Kimberly
 
Every time I leave Concord (JQF) to head back home (LZU) I head to the west toward IPJ because I'm always given "stay clear of Bravo" by Charlotte approach. This takes me in the direction of some very tall TV towers and they never fail to ask me if I am aware of those towers as I'm going around them to get on course.
 
EppyGA said:
Every time I leave Concord (JQF) to head back home (LZU) I head to the west toward IPJ because I'm always given "stay clear of Bravo" by Charlotte approach. This takes me in the direction of some very tall TV towers and they never fail to ask me if I am aware of those towers as I'm going around them to get on course.
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Really? Maybe I just need to fly over some tall stuff then. My guess is that up until now I've been very much clear of all terrain / obstructions - though a recent flight comes to mind when it was dark and they didn't say anything and I went towards some mountains which differed from what I told them I was doing.
 
I don't ever recall explicit warnings of "terrain" even for routes over the mountains, but I get plenty warnings of "mountain obscuration" for areas of IFR and MVFR.
 
I think the controllers might be too busy here? Last night I had to switch frequencies (Nor Cal has several) because in 10 minutes I couldn't even call up. They were non stop with the airlines.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I think the controllers might be too busy here? Last night I had to switch frequencies (Nor Cal has several) because in 10 minutes I couldn't even call up. They were non stop with the airlines.
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I'm sure one of the people that sleeps with a controllers handbook under their pillow will be along, but I have always understood that on any VFR operation the pilot is responsible for terrain and obstruction clearance. Of course they are going to say something and warn you if they see something, but I would never count on it (especially when they're busy). FF is traffic advisories and workload dependent as I understand it.

Even IFR if I want to do a VFR climb vs. a DP I have to tell them I will be responsible for terrain clearance.
 
Alexb2000 said:
I'm sure one of the people that sleeps with a controllers handbook under their pillow will be along, but I have always understood that on any VFR operation the pilot is responsible for terrain and obstruction clearance. Of course they are going to say something and warn you if they see something, but I would never count on it (especially when they're busy). FF is traffic advisories and workload dependent as I understand it.

Even IFR if I want to do a VFR climb vs. a DP I have to tell them I will be responsible for terrain clearance.
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I completely agree that a pilot should be responsible. That's why I started this thread, I was surprised that even existed.
 
Oh and since it was night and I had a student pilot as my pax I did ask him to use my iPad and read to me the height of any obstructions that I was interested in. We were climbing out, heading towards some mountains in the distance, and I wanted to be sure we'd clear them. In the traffic pattern at Gnoss there are towers. These sorts of things. I was constantly thinking about where I was vs. heights of things because it was night and because to do the Bay Tour you need to be at a low altitude due to the Bravo.
 
Jeanie said:
It is common form the center controllers to ask me if I'm aware of the terrain on my route of flight.
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This always happens at a flight to Angel Fire (AXX). The airport is in a valley and one has to descent below surrounding terrain. To my great shame I have no idea what is going to happen if you answer "No, not aware of the high terrain". When is this answer valid? Of course I am aware, I can see the ridges on both sides. So I never had a chance to find out.
 
zaitcev said:
This always happens at a flight to Angel Fire (AXX). The airport is in a valley and one has to descent below surrounding terrain. To my great shame I have no idea what is going to happen if you answer "No, not aware of the high terrain". When is this answer valid? Of course I am aware, I can see the ridges on both sides. So I never had a chance to find out.
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Entertaining Instrument Approach into there...

4b94241c-edb4-c4e0.jpg
 
denverpilot said:
Entertaining Instrument Approach into there...
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One of the most dangerous airports around IMO. The N-S layout of the runway is very dangerous being on the lee side of Easterly winds. We just had another accident up there a couple of weeks ago.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I completely agree that a pilot should be responsible. That's why I started this thread, I was surprised that even existed.
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If they are talking to you and tracking you on a discrete code, and you are flying below their MVA, alarms go off and your ID flashes on their scope. They will say something. They'd feel real bad if they said nothing and they watched as you completed a perfect CFIT.

MVA, minimum vectoring altitude
CFIT, controlled flight into terrain.
 
BillTIZ said:
If they are talking to you and tracking you on a discrete code, and you are flying below their MVA, alarms go off and your ID flashes on their scope. They will say something.
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Unless the assigned code is one that does not trip the MSAW alarm.
 
Almost every time we leave the Lower altitudes of Puget Sound to the east, ATC will ask if we have all terrain in sight. (there are a couple rocks up to 14K'), I usually answer them by saying "No but I am VFR and will stay that way"
 
Sac Arrow said:
I don't ever recall explicit warnings of "terrain" even for routes over the mountains, but I get plenty warnings of "mountain obscuration" for areas of IFR and MVFR.
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Whenever I'm heading into rising terrain in crappy weather with low clouds where I have to cut through the passes under the deck they'll always ask if I'm aware of the terrain.
 
As far as I can recall, I received my first VFR terrain warning - asking me to confirm I had certain terrain in sight - last summer. It was unusual enough that even my wife (a non-pilot) commented on it.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Is that why in the recording they asked him to switch to a new squack code after he asked for these special services?
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I didn't listen to the recording. As I said earlier, terrain or obstruction alerts are part of flight following, there's nothing special about them.
 
Henning said:
I like it when they point out the mountain in front of me...:rolleyes:
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That Twin Commander that smashed into Superstition Mountain in last November could've been helped by it too.
 
zaitcev said:
That Twin Commander that smashed into Superstition Mountain in last November could've been helped by it too.
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It certainly makes a lot of sense at night. In day VFR, not so much.
 
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