Flight Club & Pilot Training Questions

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Sinistar, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. Sinistar

    Sinistar Pattern Altitude

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    Okay, wondering something?

    For all questions: The club has 15 equal share members. There is one aircraft. The club aircraft is used for all the scenarios below. Lets not get into insurance. This is mostly about 14.CFR.

    Question # 1: Can a member of a flight club who is a CFI provide flight training to another club member(student) of that same club? (either member is the renter)?

    Question # 2: Can a member(student) of a flight club receive training from a non-member CFI (student club member is the renter)?

    Question # 3: Can a member of a flight club who is a CFI provide training to a non-member (CFI club renter is the renter)?

    ...now if the answer to Question # 1 is 'YES' then could a creative individual (CFI) with access to some cash create a flight club, purchase a plane, offer shares to student pilots (preferably with rich parents) and basically provide flight training in the club plane...without the same requirements as a flight training school or FBO which rents aircraft?
     
  2. gdwindowpane

    gdwindowpane Pre-takeoff checklist PoA Supporter

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    The first rule of flight club...
     
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  3. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Per the FAA and not per insurance or club rules (the bigger one)

    1
    Yes

    2
    Yes

    3
    Yes

    Sidebar question
    Yes
     
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  4. labbadabba

    labbadabba Pattern Altitude

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    Beat. me. to. it.
     
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  5. Warlock

    Warlock Line Up and Wait

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    I know you don't want to get into it but insurance can be an important factor in scenario 2 in particular...but non of the scenarios are bad if addressed before hand.
     
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  6. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    The is nothing that prohibits anyone for forming a for profit club and providing flight instruction. The planes must have 100 hour inspections. The FAA cares less about the fee arrangement. Insurance is available for these arrangements that covers the members and the club owner.

    If the 15 member equity club in any way restricts the members from using any CFI of their choosing the aircraft must have 100 hour inspections.

    If the 15 member club rents the plane to the public and the renter uses a club authorized instructor, the plane must have 100 hour inspections.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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  7. Sinistar

    Sinistar Pattern Altitude

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    Okay your response is hinting at what I was most curious about...why would the 100hr inspection even be required??? And if it is subject to the 100hr inspection, what other requirements are now a factor?

    If I own my own plane and receive dual instruction in it, it is not subject to the 100hr inspection. But it seems if a CFI owns their own plane and gives dual instruction they are subject to the 100hr inspection.

    So it would seem the Flight Club would either need 100hr inspections no matter what the use of the plane (but that doesn't seem right). OR, even if CFI members are giving dual instruction it would not need the 100hr inspection and anything else that comes with that same regulation. So I am confused on this one?
     
  8. Clip4

    Clip4 En-Route

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    The FAA kinda draws the line with renting the plane and providing instruction. If an equity club has an open instructor policy, the FAA does not require 100 hour inspections.

    If I rent your plane and go out and get my own CFI, it does not require 100 hour inspections.

    Edit: 91.409 applies.
    (b) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no person may operate an aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) for hire, and no person may give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that person provides, unless within the preceding 100 hours of time in service the aircraft has received an annual or 100-hour inspection and been approved for return to service in accordance with part 43 of this chapter or has received an inspection for the issuance of an airworthiness certificate in accordance with part 21 of this chapter. The 100-hour limitation may be exceeded by not more than 10 hours while en route to reach a place where the inspection can be done. The excess time used to reach a place where the inspection can be done must be included in computing the next 100 hours of time in service.
     
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  9. Hank S

    Hank S En-Route

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    The rules only have to make sense to those who write them. The rest of us just have to study up and follow them . . . . .
     
  10. Sinistar

    Sinistar Pattern Altitude

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    Okay I think I am getting it.

    Actually where I was going with this whole thing was if there was some way to use equity clubs to help reduce new pilot training costs.

    Forgive my ignorance on how equity clubs go but maybe something like this:

    Someone raises enough capital to get it started (eg. $200K)
    A equity club agreement is drafted up, outside CFI's are welcome
    The club buys 2 old/decent trainers and finds a hangar rental solution
    Now the magic fairy dust: This club is pitched to parents of aspiring young pilots...ideally their parents!
    These parents see the $4500K buy in, $225/month and $80/hr wet rental as worth it.
    Little Billy flies a lot, getting his Private and Instrument rating for say 65% of a typical flight school/FBO with its overhead.
    Then Billy's parents sell their share to the next happy parents.
    There should always be enough to pay the bills and rebuild a motor, etc.

    ...just a thought anyway.