Flew the Conquest today

[N747JB]

Ferry pilot dropped it off and hopped in a car and left, so I had to fly it.
My CFI/mechanic and I flew for about 45 minutes checking all the systems, everything seemed to work as advertised. We took off with 125 gallons of fuel and just the two of us, man that thing likes to climb when it's light! Check pressurization, autopilot, air conditioning, radios, traffic, radar, everything was good. My first landing wasn't one to put on YouTube, unless it was as a comedy. The second one was better. Ground ops will take a little getting used to, it taxis very quick if you don't really pay attention.
Overall, I'm happy with it, I dropped Charlene off to have a couple squawks fixed before the new owner gets her. I hope to be flying the new bird on my own next week.

 

[JoeSelch]

Exciting times! Congratulations!

(of course, this thread is useless without pitchers!)

 

[Concorde]

Exciting times! Congratulations!

(of course, this thread is useless without pitchers!)

 

[wabower]

Did you use beta for taxi?

Ferry pilot dropped it off and hopped in a car and left, so I had to fly it.
My CFI/mechanic and I flew for about 45 minutes checking all the systems, everything seemed to work as advertised. We took off with 125 gallons of fuel and just the two of us, man that thing likes to climb when it's light! Check pressurization, autopilot, air conditioning, radios, traffic, radar, everything was good. My first landing wasn't one to put on YouTube, unless it was as a comedy. The second one was better. Ground ops will take a little getting used to, it taxis very quick if you don't really pay attention.
Overall, I'm happy with it, I dropped Charlene off to have a couple squawks fixed before the new owner gets her. I hope to be flying the new bird on my own next week.

 

[N747JB]

Did you use beta for taxi?

Yeah, but I wasn't aggressive enough at first. I really liked the way it flew, it's just the PT6's are new to me. I had more trouble with ground ops than flying. I had the SPZ 500 autopilot in the 441 and the Citation, but it's been 6 years since I've flown with one, but I got more comfortable towards the end. Gotta get the right power settings for approach and landings, but it was much better the second time.

 

[N747JB]

Exciting times! Congratulations!

(of course, this thread is useless without pitchers!)

I'll post some pictures after we close, I don't want to jinx the deal!

 

[wabower]

Most of the King Air Pratts seem to like the torque needles pointed almost straight down for approach.

Yeah, but I wasn't aggressive enough at first. I really liked the way it flew, it's just the PT6's are new to me. I had more trouble with ground ops than flying. I had the SPZ 500 autopilot in the 441 and the Citation, but it's been 6 years since I've flown with one, but I got more comfortable towards the end. Gotta get the right power settings for approach and landings, but it was much better the second time.

 

[Ted]

The Cheyenne was very quick for taxiing without using beta as well. I pretty quickly got the hang of the right sound to listen for that would give me a more reasonable taxi speed, and then got the hang of differential thrust/beta for steering. I'm sure you'll get the hang of it pretty quickly. PT-6s are great engines - what I liked with the Cheyenne was that it was such an easy transition from the Navajo. Just set torque instead of MP, and don't touch the red levers. I never got as good of a hang of the Commander, but only had 25 hours in it (mostly sitting on my hands), and it was a bit different in operation.

Glad you got to fly it! Can't wait to see pics.

 

[N747JB]

Most of the King Air Pratts seem to like the torque needles pointed almost straight down for approach.

It seems 500 lbs is pretty close for approaches, when you pull the power off, it wants to land, now! A couple more flights and I'm sure I'll feel comfortable.

 

[wabower]

Next time check to see where the #500 mark is positioned on the gage.

It seems 500 lbs is pretty close for approaches, when you pull the power off, it wants to land, now! A couple more flights and I'm sure I'll feel comfortable.

 

[N747JB]

Next time check to see where the #500 mark is positioned on the gage.

It's about the 10:00-10:30 position. The starts are different, not difficult just different than what I'm used to.

 

[wabower]

Spin-spark-spray?

I went the other way, flew Pratts for years and then Dash-10 Garretts in a 441. All I remember is that I pushed a button and lots of things happened. Also remember that the 441 was about 30 knots faster than our B-200.

It's about the 10:00-10:30 position. The starts are different, not difficult just different than what I'm used to.

 

[Ted]

I went the other way, flew Pratts for years and then Dash-10 Garretts in a 441. All I remember is that I pushed a button and lots of things happened. Also remember that the 441 was about 30 knots faster than our B-200.

I started Pratts and Garrets about the same time in the Cheyenne and Commander. Funny thing was that I had a much easier time with the Pratts, I think because the start sequence reminded me more of a piston start sequence. The Garrets "push a button and watch the magic" I never got fully comfortable with. Of course, boss rarely let me start them.

 

[RotorAndWing]

I started Pratts and Garrets about the same time in the Cheyenne and Commander. Funny thing was that I had a much easier time with the Pratts, I think because the start sequence reminded me more of a piston start sequence. The Garrets "push a button and watch the magic" I never got fully comfortable with. Of course, boss rarely let me start them.

In the Airbus and Eurocopters it's just an engine master switch, either on or off. Turn on and let the FADEC take over.

 

[Ted]

In the Airbus and Eurocopters it's just an engine master switch, either on or off. Turn on and let the FADEC take over.

Yeah, I've heard on good authority the S-92 pilots joke "Push start and drink your coffee."

I'm sure I'd get used to it if I flew it more, and especially dedicated. Having it as one of the 7 planes I was routinely flying at the time, and boss not wanting me to touch the engine controls because he refused to change the batteries so it routinely tried to hot start didn't help the learning process.

 

[N747JB]

Spin-spark-spray?

I went the other way, flew Pratts for years and then Dash-10 Garretts in a 441. All I remember is that I pushed a button and lots of things happened. Also remember that the 441 was about 30 knots faster than our B-200.

Yeah, the dash-10 441's are fast! True 300 knot airplanes! I read the Flight Safety training manual last night, well parts of it, and I now remember how useless those manuals are without the classroom instruction!

 

[wabower]

You going to Simcom or other for initial?

Yeah, the dash-10 441's are fast! True 300 knot airplanes! I read the Flight Safety training manual last night, well parts of it, and I now remember how useless those manuals are without the classroom instruction!

 

[N747JB]

You going to Simcom or other for initial?

There is a guy in South Carolina, Doug Carmody that does individualized training, I am talking to him. If not, I will probably end up at SimCom.

 

[wabower]

The insurance companies have tightened up considerably re. in-plane training. Guess it depends on how they react.

There is a guy in South Carolina, Doug Carmody that does individualized training, I am talking to him. If not, I will probably end up at SimCom.

 

[N747JB]

The insurance companies have tightened up considerably re. in-plane training. Guess it depends on how they react.

Believe it or not, they approved the guy that normally does my 421 recurrent! He's the one I flew with yesterday. They count my 300 hours of 441 time as "Conquest" time, even though they are pretty different in many ways. Not the least of which is the noise produced on the ground!

 

[Jeanie]

What's beta?

 

[wabower]

Who'd a'thought it? Give yourself a high-five and get it done quick before they change their mind.

Believe it or not, they approved the guy that normally does my 421 recurrent! He's the one I flew with yesterday. They count my 300 hours of 441 time as "Conquest" time, even though they are pretty different in many ways. Not the least of which is the noise produced on the ground!

 

[RotorAndWing]

What's beta?

Simplified it's the operating region of the prop where the blades produce no forward thrust or reverse thrust.

 

[Jeanie]

Thanks, I figured as much

 

[wabower]

It might be easier to understand as the segment of of power lever movement between forward thrust and reverse thrust in which power lever movement doesn't change the power produced by the engine, but changes only the pitch angle of the prop blades. The primary use of beta in most planes is to reduce taxi speeds without excessive braking. The distinctive wa-wah sound of beta operations is easy to detect after you hear it a few times and understand what the pilot is doing to cause it.

Simplified it's the operating region of the prop where the blades produce no forward thrust or reverse thrust.

 

[RotorAndWing]

It might be easier to understand as the segment of of power lever movement between forward thrust and reverse thrust in which power lever movement doesn't change the power produced by the engine, but changes only the pitch angle of the prop blades. The primary use of beta in most planes is to reduce taxi speeds without excessive braking. The distinctive wa-wah sound of beta operations is easy to detect after you hear it a few times and understand what the pilot is doing to cause it.

Yep......

 

[Jeanie]

So, are there detents on the power levers where you can feel it or do you just have to listen for it? Do you push a button on the side of the lever to allow it to go backwards?

 

[wabower]

The pilot pulls the power levers up (away from the quadrant) to move them "over the gate" in the mechanical linkage that allows them to move back past the idle stop to into beta range. The various ranges are marked on the quadrant and the detent between idle and beta is quite distinct. There is no detent between beta and reverse. If the pilot continues to pull, the blade angles will settle at max reverse angle and engine power will increase until it reaches maximum reverse power of ~90% N1.

So, are there detents on the power levers where you can feel it or do you just have to listen for it? Do you push a button on the side of the lever to allow it to go backwards?

 

[spiderweb]

Exciting times! Congratulations!

(of course, this thread is useless without pitchers!)

Pitchers of beer, I'd suggest!

 

[N747JB]

So, are there detents on the power levers where you can feel it or do you just have to listen for it? Do you push a button on the side of the lever to allow it to go backwards?

They will go backwards, but it's very tricky, remember the third wheel is in the front, so you can't use your brakes when backing up! It can easily tip backwards on the tail, so if one backs up with prop reverse it's wise to stop by moving the props forward and shift the momentum and weight back to the nose wheel. Basically backing up isn't recommended, no rear view mirror!

 

[wabower]

The demo Merlin that parked at Lunken used to back into a parking spot, but it's the only GA turbine I've ever seen move backwards under power. And that was 40+ years ago.

 

[RotorAndWing]

The demo Merlin that parked at Lunken used to back into a parking spot, but it's the only GA turbine I've ever seen move backwards under power. And that was 40+ years ago.

I backed up a Beech 99 a few times. Like previously stated it's a tricky maneuver that can cause a tail strike if not careful.

 

[RotorAndWing]

So, are there detents on the power levers where you can feel it or do you just have to listen for it? Do you push a button on the side of the lever to allow it to go backwards?

Usually have detents on P&W powered aircraft and throttle "triggers" on Garrett powered ones.

 

[Jeanie]

They will go backwards, but it's very tricky, remember the third wheel is in the front, so you can't use your brakes when backing up! It can easily tip backwards on the tail, so if one backs up with prop reverse it's wise to stop by moving the props forward and shift the momentum and weight back to the nose wheel. Basically backing up isn't recommended, no rear view mirror!

~~~ no, I didn't mean to back the plane up, I meant to allow the levers to go backwards past idle to reverse

I get it better now. Thanks, y'all. Maybe one day I'll get to fly a turbine and really understand it.

 

[wabower]

Yep, but only one detent "gate" per power lever on Pratts. Forward of the gate is idle and normal prop governor once prop RPM (N2) reaches the lower limit of the green arc on the gage. Behind the gate is beta range and reverse, but no detent between beta and reverse.

Usually have detents on P&W powered aircraft and throttle "triggers" on Garrett powered ones.

 

[RotorAndWing]

~~~ no, I didn't mean to back the plane up, I meant to allow the levers to go backwards past idle to reverse

I get it better now. Thanks, y'all. Maybe one day I'll get to fly a turbine and really understand it.

It's always fun to watch the guys landing a KA or other small turboprop on a 8000+ runway and wail into full reverse.

Done correctly at flight idle or slightly into beta will decelerate the airplane just as well.

When you do get the chance to check out in one have them explain the correct usage of reverse vs flight idle/beta.

 

[N747JB]

We did the full power reverse after landing, but it was to check and make sure everything worked, if you need max reverse, you either landed long or you are going to have trouble getting out.

It's always fun to watch the guys landing a KA or other small turboprop on a 8000+ runway and wail into full reverse.

Done correctly at flight idle or slightly into beta will decelerate the airplane just as well.

When you do get the chance to check out in one have them explain the correct usage of reverse vs flight idle/beta.

 

[Everskyward]

I flew the old ones which didn't even have beta. It was over the gates into reverse.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

It's always fun to watch the guys landing a KA or other small turboprop on a 8000+ runway and wail into full reverse.

That's our banker landing! Usually leads to them not wanting to fly as often

I also like doing that sometimes because I CAN! Or when tower tells me I may not be able to make the turnoff I requested on short final.

Best,

Dave

 

[wabower]

Interesting. Do you remember which model? I know the original engines were -6 without reverse, and I flew S/N 1 while they were building it but didn't know squat about them at the time. The B models and later (starting sometime in the late 60's have all been beta/reverse equipped.

I flew the old ones which didn't even have beta. It was over the gates into reverse.