Flap settings on takeoff?

[Barry]

Thanks for all of the feedback guys. My 1965 POH is not descriptive at all on when to use flaps on takeoff, so why i was asking. Sounds like I'll start using them more and get used to 10 or 20 degrees, especially when getting hotter and/or at full gross. Thanks again, good discussion

 

[jimhorner]

Thanks for all of the feedback guys. My 1965 POH is not descriptive at all on when to use flaps on takeoff, so why i was asking. Sounds like I'll start using them more and get used to 10 or 20 degrees, especially when getting hotter and/or at full gross. Thanks again, good discussion

I pretty much always use half flaps (23°) in my Viking. Here's what the POH has to say about it. I do have to put in a bit of back pressure to keep the tail from lifting, but it's no biggie.

You said you're in Knoxville. McGee Tyson or Downtown Island? I took my private checkride at Downtown Island 2 days before moving to California. That was 32 years ago.

 

[Barry]

Thanks for sharing Jim, yes KDKX Downtown Island is where I’m stationed. Great little airport. 3500ft runway is plenty normally, but when super hot and humid with no wind i really watch it. Btw here is what my POH says, it does give some guidance. In general no flaps in “normal conditions”, which is what I have been doing.high density and max gross conditions seems flaps could help, but not outlined in the POH and probably not in many POHs specifically.

 

[cruiserandmax]

In the 182 on "normal" runways I always use 10 degrees.

 

[GMascelli]

My commander POH calls for 10 degrees on take off.

 

[Bill]

Mooney POH calls for flaps at takeoff position (15 degrees), and I follow the POH.

 

[frtrkap]

PA-28-140, 150hp. It just loves to take off at 10 degrees. 25 for short or soft field. Rarely no flaps, but it works of course.

 

[Ed Haywood]

I don't have flaps on my Decathlon, so I'm feeling left out. POA needs more diversity of flight controls. Wheelbarrowing is cultural appropriation of taildraggers.

LOL at avoiding chirps. Seek ye the horn. Go forth and squawk.

On a serious note, a tad of forward pressure is probably harmless on a nice paved runway, but dunnae do that on turf. Bad juju in a 182.

 

[Dan Thomas]

On a serious note, a tad of forward pressure is probably harmless on a nice paved runway, but dunnae do that on turf. Bad juju in a 182.

Even no forward pressure, with flaps extended, at enough speed, will cause wheelbarrowing. It's not the elevator that lifts the mains off; it's that wing, and with flaps down it will lift at low pitch angles. Adding elevator pressure just makes it much worse by preventing the nose from lifting off.

 

[Ed Haywood]

Even no forward pressure, with flaps extended, at enough speed, will cause wheelbarrowing. It's not the elevator that lifts the mains off; it's that wing, and with flaps down it will lift at low pitch angles. Adding elevator pressure just makes it much worse by preventing the nose from lifting off.

Yes, but since the instructed technique transitions from forward pressure to back pressure at rotation speed, the condition of "enough speed" will not occur.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Yes, but since the instructed technique transitions from forward pressure to back pressure at rotation speed, the condition of "enough speed" will not occur.

It can occur well before rotation speed. It occurs in landings--I've watched it happen--at lower than rotation speeds.

 

[Matthew Rogers]

It can occur well before rotation speed. It occurs in landings--I've watched it happen--at lower than rotation speeds.

Rotation speed is lower than approach speed for most aircraft, right? And wheelbarrowing on landing usually occurs when a plane comes in a much higher than standard than approach speed. Those two things don't seem to line up. Sure you can wheelbarrow during landing, but only if you come into land at way too high a speed, not below rotation speed.

Rotation speed for my C150 is 50 mph. Stall speed is 48 mph. Approach speed is 65 mph. The plane is firmly on the ground when it gets below rotation speed and can only wheelbarrow if you force it onto the ground above rotation speed.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Rotation speed is lower than approach speed for most aircraft, right? And wheelbarrowing on landing usually occurs when a plane comes in a much higher than standard than approach speed. Those two things don't seem to line up. Sure you can wheelbarrow during landing, but only if you come into land at way too high a speed, not below rotation speed.

Rotation speed for my C150 is 50 mph. Stall speed is 48 mph. Approach speed is 65 mph. The plane is firmly on the ground when it gets below rotation speed and can only wheelbarrow if you force it onto the ground above rotation speed.

Approach speed is not landing speed. Touchdown speed is not far above stall. A bit too fast, with flaps, and you can wheelbarrow. Rotation speed is usually well above stall.

Stall for your 150 is 48 with flaps at 40°. Are you taking off with 40 flap? In a 150?? The POH calls for lifting the nosewheel at 50, flaps up, and stall is at 55. Climb is at 75-80.

Look at that again. Lifting the nosewheel well before stall speed. That's a lot different than touching down at 55 or so with full flaps.

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/...rence-between-rotation-speed-vs-takeoff-speed

 

[Daleandee]

After the first hop this pilot manages to keep the nose wheel on the runway ...

 

[denverpilot]

Normal takeoff, 10.

STOL, I can use all of em.

As long as there’s not an obstacle to clear...

 

[Matthew Rogers]

Approach speed is not landing speed. Touchdown speed is not far above stall. A bit too fast, with flaps, and you can wheelbarrow. Rotation speed is usually well above stall.
Stall for your 150 is 48 with flaps at 40°. Are you taking off with 40 flap? In a 150?? The POH calls for lifting the nosewheel at 50, flaps up, and stall is at 55. Climb is at 75-80.
Look at that again. Lifting the nosewheel well before stall speed. That's a lot different than touching down at 55 or so with full flaps.

You started off this conversation with your own confusing reference and now you are the only one still confused by it. Emphasis mine in the below quote.

It [wheelbarrowing] can occur well before rotation speed. It occurs in landings--I've watched it happen--at lower than rotation speeds.

No, I am not talking about taking off with 40 degrees flaps, but you were saying that you say airplanes wheelbarrowing during landing at speeds below rotation speed. Don't blame me that you were talking about both a landing reference and a takeoff reference in your original post. During landing, my plane is coming in power off with 40 flaps, so the stall speed is 48 mph. At rotation, my plane is travelling 50 mph.

 

[dmspilot]

Rotation speed is lower than approach speed for most aircraft, right? And wheelbarrowing on landing usually occurs when a plane comes in a much higher than standard than approach speed. Those two things don't seem to line up. Sure you can wheelbarrow during landing, but only if you come into land at way too high a speed, not below rotation speed.

Rotation speed for my C150 is 50 mph. Stall speed is 48 mph. Approach speed is 65 mph. The plane is firmly on the ground when it gets below rotation speed and can only wheelbarrow if you force it onto the ground above rotation speed.

Stall and rotation speed are irrelevant. The elevator has enough authority to induce pitching moments well below that.

 

[flyingron]

The major cause of 150 wheelbarrowing is full flaps and excess power. It lightens the weight on the mains and if you're not careful, you're riding the unicycle.

 

[Matthew Rogers]

The major cause of 150 wheelbarrowing is full flaps and excess power. It lightens the weight on the mains and if you're not careful, you're riding the unicycle.

I don’t have any issues with wheelbarrowing in my 150. It is just the plane that I know the book speed numbers, so I was using that as an example. I don’t usually use any power during landing.

 

[flyingron]

The usual situation is on a touch and go or other go around. You panic and jam full throttle in without bring the flaps up a bit.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Cessna 120 - I never used flaps for takeoff or landing. Perhaps it was just me.

 

[Groundpounder]

There are no numbers published for anything other than a flaps zero takeoff in my airplane, so I've never used them for takeoff. Well, except I did takeoff with them at full once because I'm an idiot.

 

[AlphaMike]

Wheelbarrowing.... Some of you we’re never taught to hold the yoke full back on landing all the way to the taxiway and it shows

 

[bflynn]

My POH says 0-10. I use 0 as it simplifies things later.