First World Problems

Flying_Nun

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Flying_Nun
So, the FBO sent away the SR20 I was renting. Now, my choices for something with comparable speed without completely draining the bank account are an Arrow at $108/hr dry or a Geronimo at $80/hr dry.

Is it worth it to go for the multi or stick with the single?
 
What are your multi options and do you already have a multi rating?

What were you paying for the SR20 before?
 
Fly each for 10 hours, then decide.

You will have to pay for the CFI for the multi, but.... OH DARN, you get another endorsement.
 
Fly each for 10 hours, then decide.

You will have to pay for the CFI for the multi, but.... OH DARN, you get another endorsement.

That can end up costing quite a lot. Plus you don't get an endorsement for a multi, have to take an FAA checkride (much more of a pain in the @$$).
 
That can end up costing quite a lot. Plus you don't get an endorsement for a multi, have to take an FAA checkride (much more of a pain in the @$$).


You are correct. The training, then the sign off, then the FAA exam.

No written exam.
 
The SR20 was $150. They have another newer one for $180 and a 22 for $190. Although $150/hr isn't cheap, I thought it was reasonable for that plane.

I'm not multi rated so I'd have to take the checkride. Besides the Geronimo which is privately owned, I know of only one other twin for rent - a DA42 at $235/hr.

I think I may have just answered my own question.
 
The SR20 was $150. They have another newer one for $180 and a 22 for $190. Although $150/hr isn't cheap, I thought it was reasonable for that plane.

I'm not multi rated so I'd have to take the checkride. Besides the Geronimo which is privately owned, I know of only one other twin for rent - a DA42 at $235/hr.

I think I may have just answered my own question.

Is that dry?

Those prices sound super cheap.
 
Yep, all dry rates. The Diamond is an NG I think. So there's a couple dollars saving per gallon in fuel.

Oh then the Cirrus are normal. But the TwinStar is still cheap. Here is an example of how much it normally costs to rent: http://www.angelcityflyers.com/rates/acf-rates/ and http://performanceflight.com/training/aircraft_rental/. If I was you I'd run and get my multi ASAP. Just make sure that they rent it on solo basis and find out requirements to rent it, some places want you to have 300 PIC in twin and 50 hours in type or something like that.
 
The SR20 was $150. They have another newer one for $180 and a 22 for $190. Although $150/hr isn't cheap, I thought it was reasonable for that plane.

I'm not multi rated so I'd have to take the checkride. Besides the Geronimo which is privately owned, I know of only one other twin for rent - a DA42 at $235/hr.

I think I may have just answered my own question.

I should have read further. But I still think even dry, the 22 is a steal!
 
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Go for the multi. The Geronimo is a big, comfy plane to fly and handles very well. I think you'll enjoy it.
 
Yeah, but the one I flew was slower than molasses in winter.

Laws of physics at work! Speed, Comfort, Economy...pick any two!

The one I'm flying has a pair of 180 hp engines and gets up and goes pretty well for her size and comfort. Plus multi time is good. And night flights are more relaxing.
 
What speeds are you both getting? I don't remember off hand if this Geronimo has 160 or 180 HP engines.
 
An arrow at $108 Dry???

What year?

That is insane unless it is new, the local Arrow is $140 wet
 
An arrow at $108 Dry???

What year?

That is insane unless it is new, the local Arrow is $140 wet


The 1977 Arrow is owned by a Part 141 school. In the two years I've been using them, the Arrow is on its second engine. The first was back in the fall of 2010. That might have just been an end-of-life replacement but a few months ago a student with instructor aboard ran over a tie-down strap and put a huge gash in the prop. Prop strike equaled a rebuild. Plus it seems to be a maintenance hog. Recently they've also replaced some inop nav lights, a leaking brake master cylinder, and I recall a story about the prop governor blowing a seal in flight (they made it back with something like 1 qt of oil left).
 
That's a cheap 22. I'd fly that one :D
 
What speeds are you both getting? I don't remember off hand if this Geronimo has 160 or 180 HP engines.

I haven't had a chance to x-c with it yet so not sure what she will do, but will do some tests.
 
I found a FlightAware track for the Geronimo available to me that showed a pretty consistent 150 kts. If I recall correctly, that's ground speed though.
 
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My Apache has 150hp engines. It's economical (Cheapest twin you'll fly!), roomy (think your Grandpa's Buick), and flies about as fast as a pitch from Nolan Ryan. =)
 
Not a bad rate for SR20. Here, in NY, there's an outfit that rents out SR20 at $180/wet if you prepay for 10 hours.
 
Not a bad rate for SR20. Here, in NY, there's an outfit that rents out SR20 at $180/wet if you prepay for 10 hours.

That's similar to the total cost of one that I was flying that got sent away. The other one is $180 dry.
 
Laws of physics at work! Speed, Comfort, Economy...pick any two!

The one I'm flying has a pair of 180 hp engines and gets up and goes pretty well for her size and comfort. Plus multi time is good. And night flights are more relaxing.
Yep, laws of physics for sure, but man it was slow. I just needed the centerline thrust restriction removed and it was the cheapest around. Good enough for me, but I wouldn't take any trips in it.

What speeds are you both getting? I don't remember off hand if this Geronimo has 160 or 180 HP engines.

I was getting around 130 knots at 4k' - this was summer, very hot and this Geronimo was old and a bit worn out. I would hope with IO-360's it would do better. If you get 150 knots out of it, it might be a good option.
 
Not a bad rate for SR20. Here, in NY, there's an outfit that rents out SR20 at $180/wet if you prepay for 10 hours.

Where is that? I know of one place that rents the 20 for $180 wet, but it says nothing about having to buy block time.
 
Where is that? I know of one place that rents the 20 for $180 wet, but it says nothing about having to buy block time.

Empire in KFRG. I am flying with them on Monday, Oct 1st. Bought a groupon for 1 hour sim, 1 hour dual in SR20 for $160. Will use that towards my glass time requirement for a Diamond.

And BTW, I just checked. Apparently, block of 10 only for SR22 and DA40. Not for SR20.
 
Empire in KFRG. I am flying with them on Monday, Oct 1st. Bought a groupon for 1 hour sim, 1 hour dual in SR20 for $160. Will use that towards my glass time requirement for a Diamond.

And BTW, I just checked. Apparently, block of 10 only for SR22 and DA40. Not for SR20.

Just keep in mind that there are some major differences in the G1000s of SR20 & DA40, make sure the school will count that time towards the Diamond.
 
Just keep in mind that there are some major differences in the G1000s of SR20 & DA40, make sure the school will count that time towards the Diamond.

I heard that there are major differences, and I had plenty of time with G1000 simulator. But the FBO said they will count Cirrus towards their glass time requirements. And if the sim is FAA certified (Frasca SR-22, was told it is), they will count sim time as well.

Sunday is my checkout. It's kind of backwards. They will check me out in DA40 but I won't be able to fly it solo until I get other 2 hours of glass. Also, would be my first experience with constant speed propellers.

Kind of worrying. I am used to Cessnas and Pipers. A T-tail, glass, stick, and constant speed prop is all new to me.
 
I heard that there are major differences, and I had plenty of time with G1000 simulator. But the FBO said they will count Cirrus towards their glass time requirements. And if the sim is FAA certified (Frasca SR-22, was told it is), they will count sim time as well.

Sunday is my checkout. It's kind of backwards. They will check me out in DA40 but I won't be able to fly it solo until I get other 2 hours of glass. Also, would be my first experience with constant speed propellers.

Kind of worrying. I am used to Cessnas and Pipers. A T-tail, glass, stick, and constant speed prop is all new to me.

DA40 is very easy to fly and handles very nice, after a few hours it would probably be easier for you than the planes you flew before.

Here I posted a few pictures showing the difference: http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showpost.php?p=977704&postcount=13
 
Empire in KFRG. I am flying with them on Monday, Oct 1st. Bought a groupon for 1 hour sim, 1 hour dual in SR20 for $160. Will use that towards my glass time requirement for a Diamond.

And BTW, I just checked. Apparently, block of 10 only for SR22 and DA40. Not for SR20.

Ah, ok. That's the place. I'll be using them for my SR20 checkout soon. Post your experience with them when you get a chance, if you don't mind.
 
Here's my real first world problem: I can't figure out where I want to fly this weekend.

I for some reason can't ever bring myself to just go fly in circles, I have to actually have a destination in mind.
 
Here's my real first world problem: I can't figure out where I want to fly this weekend.

I for some reason can't ever bring myself to just go fly in circles, I have to actually have a destination in mind.

Fold the map few squares around your home airport. Close eyes, have someone move the map around. Put the finger down. Locate closest field, fly there!
 
Well that's not fun, there has to be a restaurant or something to fly over and look at.

The winner with that method is: Crosbyton (8F3) Seems very desolate out there.
 
Well that's not fun, there has to be a restaurant or something to fly over and look at.

The winner with that method is: Crosbyton (8F3) Seems very desolate out there.

Nobody telling you to go to the first place. Try again!
 
I left KADS for an evening in KOKC. Awesome sunset and way fun watching the Southwest 737s takeoff from the ramp!

Edit: Now I need to update my map!
 
I heard that there are major differences, and I had plenty of time with G1000 simulator. But the FBO said they will count Cirrus towards their glass time requirements. And if the sim is FAA certified (Frasca SR-22, was told it is), they will count sim time as well.

Not too surprising - Even though there are differences between the G1000 variants, they're vastly more similar than flying with a different glass system or a six-pack.

Sunday is my checkout. It's kind of backwards. They will check me out in DA40 but I won't be able to fly it solo until I get other 2 hours of glass. Also, would be my first experience with constant speed propellers.

How'd it go?

Kind of worrying. I am used to Cessnas and Pipers. A T-tail, glass, stick, and constant speed prop is all new to me.

As you probably know by now, no biggie! Once you're flying, you won't know it's a T-tail. IMO, the DA40 t-tail flies a lot better than a T-tail Piper. The flying characteristics are delightful. Likewise, the stick should feel natural pretty quickly - 10 minutes into the flight, you'll be having fun and enjoying it so much you'll forget about the T-tail and the stick entirely.

One hint: Don't grab the stick, or rest your hand on it, or try too hard to move it. You'll be all over the place. Simply keep your hand surrounding, but not necessarily touching, the stick. Then just gently think it in the direction you want to go, and it'll go. It's not twitchy, but it's definitely more responsive than your average C or P bird. If you try to muscle it around like you're used to having to do on those, you'll likely be all over at first.

The C/S prop you'll notice a bit more - You have more to do in some ways. Google "Manifold Pressure Sucks" and read the excellent John Deakin article on AvWeb by that title. It gives a much better explanation of what's going on than any other publication I've ever read. There should be a link in that article to another one called "those marvelous props" or something like that that gives more details about the inner workings of the prop as well.

Bottom line, a C/S prop lets you "set it and forget it" when it comes to power, since airspeed changes will no longer change your RPM. I much prefer CS props to fixed pitch these days, and I suspect you will too once you're used to it. You'll likely have one RPM reduction on climbout, another when you transition to cruise, and the next time you change it will be after you pull the throttle back for your final descent and you're out of the governing range (ie, the prop has hit the flat-pitch stops and there's not enough power to maintain the RPM you had selected). That way when you push the prop all the way in during your last GUMPS checks you won't rev the engine way up, but you'll be ready for a go-around.

The glass panel will probably be the biggest thing to get used to - When you're used to reading round gauges, the tapes can require a bit more thought at first. You may notice a tendency to do the wrong thing in pitch at first - If you're looking at the Vy tag on the tape, and you get a little bit slow, your airspeed will be going down so the Vy tag goes up and if you chase it you'll nose up, which further slows you down and puts the Vy tag farther away.

Finally, even though you've got those spiffy displays, don't forget to look outside! It's still an airplane, it still obeys the same laws of physics, and you should still fly it by looking out the window as much as possible. There's traffic out there, and even if you have the traffic option on the G1000 it won't show any traffic that has no transponder or forgot to turn it on or is outside radar coverage or... etc. etc. So be sure you don't forget the basics.

Have fun!
 
130 knots is normal for 150hp Apache... Though I routinely file IFR at 125 it seems I average 128-130 most of the time going XC..
A fresh Geronimo will likely hit 150 flat out, but the fuel burn will spin your hat..

After 13 years of flying the Apache almost exclusively, except for some C180 and Cub time now and then, I find it uncomfortable to fly with friends in their airplanes - I'm claustrophobic I guess... You get spoiled fast by a fat Apache...
The other issue is when flying (or riding) a single engine I find I'm reverting back to constantly watching the ground for where I will put the plane when the engine falls apart - a bit of mental strain...
In the Apache, the thought never crosses my mind...
Steam gauge panel with two of everything, two GPS Map with back up batteries, a pair of 1930 tractor engines with 7:1 compression just loafing along - redundancy and low stress engines... Gee, I wonder if I can get the Tiger's game on the ADF?

What's a glass panel?
All the gauges on my panel have glass on them, so maybe that's it...

Denny-o and Fat Albert the Apache
 
So far I have 1 hour in DA40 and 2 hours in Redbird full motion simulator with G1000.

I must say, DA40 is an amazing plane. I don't think I had so much fun in a while. I am actually itching to fly it again.

Since I had zero experience with a T-tail, I was expecting lower elevator authority at slower speeds. But I forgot the thing even had a T tail. Flew just fine.

CS prop was not as much of a bogeyman as I made it out to be. Transition to cruise calls for 2400rpm, and they had MP settings chart right on a dashboard. Made it easier.

G1000 is a great system. In a sim, I quickly picked up most of it's functions, autopilot, and even did 2 ILS approaches (not instrument rated). One with autopilot, one manual.

The stick comment was dead on. No need to wrestle with it. Slight adjustments is all it took. But I found it slightly uncomfortable with positioning. I believe side stick, like on Cirrus (Never flown a Cirrus, but I think it would be more comfortable).
 
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