First Time Buyer..... questions

Ventucky Red

Ventucky Red

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Jon
After trying to go the partnership route with no success, and socking away a few more scheckles, I am getting ready to turn the corner on getting a plane of my own.. With that I have identified the right plane to fit my parameters, that is some thing in the Cherokee/172 area...

I have been doing so research on how to go about this, but as a question, what were some of things that you wish you would have done-said-asked, that you didn't do when buying your first airplane?

Thanks
 
Did a list of questions before hand.first look at the listing sheet,see time since overhaul,questions on corrosion,ask about avionics,and if they all work. Then view the airplane to get an idea of how truthfull the info is.
 
Good prebuy, and good oil sample results before closing the deal, test flight comparing against the book, verify everything works, get the FAA CD and compare with the aircraft logs.
Have the seller fly the plane too, watch how he lands and handles the engine, this is how the thing has been operated for a while, for better or worse.

Remember more people on earth want your money than his plane.
 
Make sure you make it clear to the mechanic that you want a pre-buy that you will then turn into an annual. Once the plane is opened up, make sure you and him both once-over the plane. If it passes the smell test and there are no glaring show-stoppers, have him proceed with a complete annual.

Even if the plane is in annual, offer to split the difference with the seller or even pick that cost up yourself. Any discrepancies that you agree with, ask the seller to fix. Even if you walk away, make sure your only exposure is the cost of the inspection. That is the cheapest way to learn.
 
Buy my Archer.... You can not have any regrets other than watching your wallet get thinner from weekly $100 hamburgers!
 
I know of a nice Arrow that might be coming on the market soon.
 
As others have said, you can't afford NOT to have a good Pre-Buy inspection done. And make sure to use a shop OTHER than the one that did the last annual. Typically you'll sign a contract agreeing to buy the plane at an agreed upon price pending the pre-buy inspection. The agreement would stipulate that the seller pay for any "airworthiness" items uncovered by the inspection, or you get to walk away.
 
What year and how much? Fill us in on the plane. Radios, VRF or IFR? Look at the logs yourself to get an Idea of what has been done to it. Good luck, hope you find a keeper.
 
Ventucky Red said:
what were some of things that you wish you would have done-said-asked, that you didn't do when buying your first airplane?
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I think I should have haggled more or been more firm on the price; I think I overpaid. That said, there are also things that I would recommend, but didn't do...

Get a thorough and complete pre-buy inspection, and make sure you're happy with it. I didn't; I went with my gut feeling that the seller was basically above board and honest. It turned out that I was right, and I've had no major issues to complain about, but since I bought the plane I've leaned about many potential problems that I didn't even know to look for and would never have caught. None have been a problem for me, but that's only because I was lucky and the seller was honest, not because I did my homework. I didn't.

Next time I will---not because I had a bad experience, but because I now have a much better appreciation of what a bad experience could have been, after some maintenance experience and just knowing better how things work.
 
By the way, let me just add---I think that most sellers are basically honest, to the best of their knowledge; when I say "I was lucky and the seller was honest" I don't mean to imply that I beat the odds.

But, if you have bad luck and find a rare unscrupulous one, not doing your homework could be very very expensive.

If you find the more common slightly clueless one who honestly thinks his airplane is worth more than it really is, it could just be a little bit expensive. :)
 
I guess I've had bad luck. I've dealt with 3 sellers in a row that have lied about the condition of the aircraft they're selling. 1 through a broker, 2 private sellers.

Rather annoying.
 
Gsxrpilot said:
The agreement would stipulate that the seller pay for any "airworthiness" items uncovered by the inspection, or you get to walk away.
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NO

The difference between MOST prebuys and a annual is the prebuy STARTS at airworthy.

A annual is making sure the plane is legal to fly, correcting any airworthy items.

A prebuy is making sure the plane is in as ADVERTISED condition, this goes far beyond airworthy, does every little thing work, what things should be fixed to make the plane into that 9.5/10 condition the seller said it was in over the phone, etc.

Not sure about you guys but a plane that is only airworthy ain't a plane I'm buying, too many on the market to settle for legal mins. For me I want a 9/10 or I'll just buy a unairworthy project for next to nothing.
 
James331 said:
NO

The difference between MOST prebuys and a annual is the prebuy STARTS at airworthy.

A annual is making sure the plane is legal to fly, correcting any airworthy items.

A prebuy is making sure the plane is in as ADVERTISED condition, this goes far beyond airworthy, does every little thing work, what things should be fixed to make the plane into that 9.5/10 condition the seller said it was in over the phone, etc.

Not sure about you guys but a plane that is only airworthy ain't a plane I'm buying, too many on the market to settle for legal mins. For me I want a 9/10 or I'll just buy a unairworthy project for next to nothing.
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Depends if you are looking for the best plane or cheapest.
 
There is no universal definition of pre-purchase inspection. It is what you direct it to be so you need to know the guy who's doing the looking and understand how he sees things. Conversely an annual inspection is well defined.

My take on "for sale" airplanes is that owners see them differently than buyers. An owner says he has a peach. I see a project. Owners tell you how much a plane is worth. I see how much it's going to cost. It's the nature of the game, and it's why I haven't bought airplanes that were advertised for sale.
 
Henning said:
Depends if you are looking for the best plane or cheapest.
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Ether way.

Annual is black and white, airworthy or not

Prebuy is not, prebuy is stated condition vs actual condition and what it would cost, what you should take off your offer, to make the two one and the same.
 
James331 said:
Ether way.

Annual is black and white, airworthy or not

Prebuy is not, prebuy is stated condition vs actual condition and what it would cost, what you should take off your offer, to make the two one and the same.
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Agreed, no need for a plane to be airworthy to pass a prebuy either. Prebuy is about ascertaining represented vs actual condition.
 
ahkahn said:
Make sure you make it clear to the mechanic that you want a pre-buy that you will then turn into an annual.
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Gsxrpilot said:
As others have said, you can't afford NOT to have a good Pre-Buy inspection done.
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I've bought 13 airplanes and sold 12 in my flying career. About half of them I had a pre-buy inspection done and the other half I didn't and I've never started a pre-buy and turned it into an annual.

But maybe I don't know as much about buying and selling airplanes as some others. The bottom line is, the answer truly is "it depends" but it is much easier to make absolute statements.
 
KLRDMD said:
I've bought 13 airplanes and sold 12 in my flying career. About half of them I had a pre-buy inspection done and the other half I didn't and I've never started a pre-buy and turned it into an annual.

But maybe I don't know as much about buying and selling airplanes as some others. The bottom line is, the answer truly is "it depends" but it is much easier to make absolute statements.
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Yep, I did a 5 minute pre buy on the 310, it was obvious that the plane was in the represented condition, and it was being sold with a fresh annual. Every deal has to be taken on its own merits.
 
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