First real siting of a drone - scary near miss

Juliet Hotel said:
Nothing in what I wrote disagrees with nor disregards that. Agree with all of it completely. But I also know from experience that taking a bird directly to the windscreen does not automatically lead to a broken or missing windscreen. In addition, I know of at least one youtube cockpit video of a pilot taking a bird to the windscreen a few miles from the airport, losing the windscreen in the process and still flying the approach and landing normally albeit with damage to the plane and pilot and have seen internet pics of other aircraft which were also landed safely after such events. Which means even losing the windscreen and being hit by the object does not automatically spell instant death.

And let me be clear. That is all I'm saying here. I'm not saying the risk is zero because it clearly isn't zero. An incident between a small drone and a small aircraft could potentially be fatal. But just because something is possible does not mean that something is likely. There are tons of things that you have no control over which are just as likely to be fatal for you when it comes to aircraft and I don't see anyone wishing for bazillion dollar fines or inanimate objects to be inserted into anyone's rectum because of it. I completely get the risk. In my humble opinion the amount of vitriol displayed by many on the subject is not proportionate to the actual risk involved. My opinion only.

Drones are an issue and the fact that they can sometimes be operated by irresponsible individuals is disturbing and probably needs to be looked at in terms of solutions. But to be honest I'm probably more disturbed by some of the ultralight pilots I've encountered in traffic patterns that seem to like to do their own thing and act as though they have never read a FAR nor the AIM in their life. Tangling with a 500lb ultralight is far more likely to be fatal than a 5lb plastic toy and again, I don't see anyone losing their s**t over them.
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Yeah. . .uhhh...real strained analogies - Concur, I don't think we need to free the sky of birds, and they are just a risk of the natural world we accept. No way to talk to them about it, either. I have no issue with drones - it might be fun, and I'll give it a try eventually.

But most humans are sentinent, and usually qualify as primates, at least. One would have to be wilfully ignorant, or stupid, or just not give a sh*t, to operate a drone on final at an airport. Yep, a bazillion is probably too high a fine - I think $15K would do it. I'm cool if they're within 5 miles or 2 miles, or wherever - go, play have fun, no problem. But inside a traffic pattern is just effing stupid, and justifies a sh*t hammering. It's just a nonsensical thing to do, and yes, the probability is low, but the consequences are high.

And this is coming from a guy that thinks the traffic avoidance value of ADS-B for GA is just slightly above worthless.
 
pigpenracing said:
I was out flying mu Cub in the country and was about 300 AGL. A local drone pilot/picture guy went on facebook talking crap. He said a yellow Cub was flying in his airspace!
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I've seen people in the drone community who think all airplanes have to stay above 1000 feet (or 500 feet)
 
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WannFly said:
i have issues with people playing wannabe pilots with a RC Plane on a runway and close vicinity of runway... there are streets and other places to do it. runway and the airport is for real pilots.
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RC planes don’t need the runway, nor do they need to be anywhere near the pattern, approach or departure lanes there’s still plenty of room at most airports for them to operate. Maybe not you but most of the guys in my generation started out as “wannabe” pilots with model airplanes as kids, including me. When I fly my real airplane I dont expect the whole rest of the world needs to stand down and make way for me. The traffic pattern is well established, there’s room for everyone. At my airport we get along fine with skydivers and gliders, no problem.
 
WannFly said:
i have issues with people playing wannabe pilots with a RC Plane on a runway and close vicinity of runway... there are streets and other places to do it. runway and the airport is for real pilots.
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Wouldn't agree that streets are a place for RCs unless they are rarely if ever driven on and even then it is sketchy.

Since I work for a living flying drones does that mean I am a "wannabe" pilot? There are definitely some idiots out there flying drones but there are definitely some flying actual aircraft too. Are the ones that don't manage fuel and crash "real" pilots? How about the ones that bring their family into IFR without an instrument ticket and ball it up?

Don't know about you guys but I get a lot more worried about full sized aircraft idiots when flying than drones.
 
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Sundancer said:
And this is coming from a guy that thinks the traffic avoidance value of ADS-B for GA is just slightly above worthless.
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Also worth mentioning that my larger work drone has ADSB in and tells me when aircraft are approaching with a notice to descend immediately. I think it is a good tool to have for drone pilots on the ground.

I was flying a cell tower with two visual observers though. ;)
 
It's already illegal to interfere with an aircraft on final...so I don't see how passing another law will make it "more illegal". And when drone operators are fined by the FAA, $15,000 would be considered a low fine.

I have used my drone to film my plane while it was parked on a class G airport. When I did it, I had a spotter to help me keep an eye out for any approaching aircraft, and I had my handheld with me on the CTAF. Worked great, and I got some great shots.
 
tawood said:
It's already illegal to interfere with an aircraft on final...so I don't see how passing another law will make it "more illegal". And when drone operators are fined by the FAA, $15,000 would be considered a low fine.

I have used my drone to film my plane while it was parked on a class G airport. When I did it, I had a spotter to help me keep an eye out for any approaching aircraft, and I had my handheld with me on the CTAF. Worked great, and I got some great shots.
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So you're part of the problem then. ;)
 
Guess I'm part of the problem, too. I fly my drone between the downwind to 10 and the runway itself at the home 'drone (oops...must have been one of those Freudian slips) regularly. Both the drone and I are 107-rated, but usually fly part 101. Why would I do this horrible thing!!?? I LIVE between the downwind and the runway.

That said, one would have to be totally whacked not to hear an airplane approaching, at which point all drone ops cease. I have the max altitude set as 400 feet, as required, which puts the drone 600 feet below pattern altitude, but rarely get above tree-top. I really don't see the safety issue. I would be comfortable doing so with my wife in the pattern in either our airplanes or her company plane.

That is not at all to justify some the of asinine things people do with drones....just sayin' it doesn't HAVE to be a problem.

Jim

Edit- Am I the only one here who sees an almost humorous parallel to the airline pilots wanting us GA folks to stay out of 'their' airspace?
 
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I don't want you out of the airspace; heck, under downwind below 400', whatever, I'm not an airspace Nazi, we can get along. But not on final - that's just stupid.
 
As the originator of this thread, I do have to admit that I have seen alot of crazy "stuff" in the pattern at my local non-towered home airport. Pilots not making calls, making "bad" calls identifying WHERE they are in the pattern (when they are NOT in that position - ie downwind but really crosswind), not flying the correct pattern altitude, coming in on an IFR approach on final and just "crashing" into the pattern, etc.....

Now that I think about it, my demise is far more likely to happen because of a "real" pilot flying a "real" airplane rather than a drone!
 
Sundancer said:
No one here is saying "Pass another law" either: just semi-hammer an operator who acts in such an egregiously reckless fashion.
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Fair enough. Just remember it seems likely at this point there are more citizens who own or have access to drones than those who own or have access to airplanes. And as of yet, no one in an airplane has died because of it. I'm not saying that can't happen, just that it hasn't. But lots of people have died in traffic patterns and elsewhere because someone was doing something stupid in an airplane. So if you want the solution to be handing out mega fines or as you put it, semi-hammering an operator that acts in such an egregiously reckless fashion, so be it. But careful what you wish for or your next faux pas in the pattern could put a big dent in the ol' college fund.
 
Stephen Shore said:
Flew out of West Houston KIWS airport yesterday on an IFR flight plan back up to my home airport of Gladewater 07F. I was given the Lufkin 2 SID which takes you over the Hooks airport and near Lake Conroe. I was at 2,000' when my wife suddenly exclaimed "DRONE"! and sure enough coming up on my 11 oclock position was the unmistakable outline of a drone.

We passed by it very quickly off of my left wing about 50 feet away and maybe 25-50 feet higher than our altitude. It was unmistakable in appearance - bright orange body with a large camera hanging from the bottom of it.

url

https://i2.wp.com/trade996.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Dragonfly-2-Simtoo-Drone-Professional-UAV-With-Wifi-FPV-4K-HD-Camera-GPS-Watch-Remote-Controller.jpg_640x640.jpg?zoom=2&fit=640,640&ssl=1


Definitely a little unnerving.

I of course reported it to Houston ATC but I have no idea if anything came from it.

To anyone who has not seen one of these up close and personal while in flight, I assure you it will rattle you a little bit.
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I'm pretty sure I saw one in the pattern at KVLL a few years ago too - though I wouldn't classify the encounter as a near miss. I just spotted this object a couple hundred feet above pattern altitude heading west to east, didn't respond on the CTAF and I had no idea what it was up to, so I exited the pattern briefly until it was out of the way. It turned base for 27 but then continued to descend northbound until it disappeared behind the trees. It was indeed a bit unnerving. This was before drones were a thing in the news, but I don't know what else it could have been.
 
Stephen Shore said:
I had a new roof installed on my house. The roofing company sent a professional drone pilot out to overfly my house inspecting the roof after the job.

He had a license from the FAA and his drone was registered. He told me that he was allowed to fly 700' AGL - and that "AGL" meant over the ground OR any structure built on the ground.

I have no idea if that is correct, but he was very professional.

And after watching him it made me want a drone. Looked like alot of fun.
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I’ve been thinking of setting up a retirement business doing roof inspections, or getting aerial video for realtors.
I have my FAA UAS certificate, just need to get experienced with a UAS.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Fair enough. Just remember it seems likely at this point there are more citizens who own or have access to drones than those who own or have access to airplanes. And as of yet, no one in an airplane has died because of it. I'm not saying that can't happen, just that it hasn't. But lots of people have died in traffic patterns and elsewhere because someone was doing something stupid in an airplane. So if you want the solution to be handing out mega fines or as you put it, semi-hammering an operator that acts in such an egregiously reckless fashion, so be it. But careful what you wish for or your next faux pas in the pattern could put a big dent in the ol' college fund.
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We (GA pilots) live with that risk already - fines, I mean, or certificate action. Sometimes we make an honest mistake, get distracted, etc.; or, do something reckless and absurd. A big difference is we have real skin in the game (as in, we can get squished, too) . . .for an act this far over the top, I'd think some kinda firm slap, as a GA pilot would get for a careless/reckless act, is warranted.

Pretty sure you're correct, no one in GA has been killed by a drone, unless someone lost control in avoidance, and we can't know that. Even when it happens, the number of occurrences will be real low, as most operators will probably follow the rules, most of the time. Likely if a drone kills a 172, there won't much fall out anyway. I don't think $15K is a mega fine - it won't take the food off the table of most folks, but is harsh enough that most folks will feel it, and it'll be an attention grabber. No threat to the rational operators - just as most GA pilots aren't gonna fly under the GW bridge. . .
 
Sundancer said:
We (GA pilots) live with that risk already - fines, I mean, or certificate action.
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certificate actions yes. Fines? I've never heard a GA pilot being fined for any kind of reg violation. Not saying it hasn't happened but I've never heard of it and I've certainly never been concerned that something I screwed up on in an airplane could lead to a hefty fine.

I don't think $15K is a mega fine - it won't take the food off the table of most folks, but is harsh enough that most folks will feel it, and it'll be an attention grabber. No threat to the rational operators - just as most GA pilots aren't gonna fly under the GW bridge. . .
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If your reality is such that $15k isn't putting enough a dent into the average person's year to take some food off the table then I want to live where you live.
 
Take a look at how fines are levied and paid. . .it should hurt a bit, that's the point, and the offender can ask for additional time to pay, a payment plan, etc.

Concur, I can't say that I know a PPL has been fined - only that it's possible. Depending on how you use your airplane, a certificate action can hurt a little, or hurt a lot. But it will hurt, vice facing the only slightly uncomfortable conversation the OP had with the drone-on-final moron.
 
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