First flight since PPL

asechrest

En-Route
Joined
May 28, 2012
Messages
4,588
Location
Tampa Bay
Display Name

Display name:
asechrest
...with the SO and two kids (7 and 10) this coming Saturday from KPIE to KVNC. We'll park and head to Sharky's on the Pier for lunch, then head back. I'm realizing that 1) I've never even parked the airplane at an airport other than my home base and 2) I've never self-fueled. These seem embarrassingly silly but such is life for a newbie.

Scoping out new airports: Assume I just do some research online, call an FBO or two, confirm their location on the field, and ask about tie down fees and transportation. Am I missing anything here?

Fueling: pull up to the self-fueling station (abeam or head-on?), turn off the plane, run my credit card, connect the grounding cord to the exhaust, climb up on the wings, and put fuel in. Am I missing any details here?

Got the kids headsets on order. I've designated them official photographers for the flight. We'll also play a game where they try to spot airplanes in the air before I do. Any tips or advice pertaining to the above, or for a first flight with kids, is appreciated.

[EDIT] - Clarity
 
Last edited:
Sounds like you have a handle on everything. I felt (and still feel the same way) as you right after I got my license. I really wish more real world flying like this was covered in training.
 
I've only self-fueled once and I pulled up abeam the fuel pumps. If I was head on I would have to most likely back the plane up to get out.

I also had a kind old man come out of the little building and give me a hand too. But it's pretty straight forward. The directions on the card reader are usually pretty detailed. If there is a ladder, definitely use it. Well, I don't know what kind of airplane you have but if it's a high wing, it's awkward trying to fuel while standing on the step/strut.
 
Thanks wrighthenry and Bill. It's a C-172.

And yes, there's a bit of trepidation. If I ever become an instructor, at the very least I'll make the post-checkride debrief include a portion on "stuff they don't teach you in training."
 
I find it pretty weird that a licensed pilot wouldn't know how to use self serve fuel, but that's coming from a guy who had to use self-serve all through training. When I started flying at a place with a fuel truck, it was great! Just call 'em up and they deliver it. What a concept! :)

If there are two pumps, pull in at roughly a 45 degree angle so that both pumps can be used simultaneously. If you're flying a high wing, definitely use a ladder. Make sure you pay attention to how full the fuel is. If you have a long filler neck, the flow can back up to the nozzle and you can get a nice shower of 100LL. Ask me how I know. You can often tell this through the sound the fuel is making as it goes in the tank. I've never flown/refueled a low wing, so I'm not sure if there any nuances to be aware of.
 
I find it pretty weird that a licensed pilot wouldn't know how to use self serve fuel, but that's coming from a guy who had to use self-serve all through training. When I started flying at a place with a fuel truck, it was great! Just call 'em up and they deliver it. What a concept! :)

I find it strange, too! I should have asked to refuel away from home during training. But I didn't. So all I know about fueling is that I call Signature, a truck comes by, I make smalltalk with the dude/gal, and my plane is magically full of fuel. :D
 
I didn't learn to self fuel until I moved to the club plane for the 2nd half of my training, the FBO planes were always kept full.

I always pull up head on if possible, its easy to push back enough for a 90 degree turn
 
If there are two pumps, pull in at roughly a 45 degree angle so that both pumps can be used simultaneously. If you're flying a high wing, definitely use a ladder. Make sure you pay attention to how full the fuel is. If you have a long filler neck, the flow can back up to the nozzle and you can get a nice shower of 100LL. Ask me how I know. You can often tell this through the sound the fuel is making as it goes in the tank. I've never flown/refueled a low wing, so I'm not sure if there any nuances to be aware of.

Does this mean there's no automatic cutoff when the fuel backs up to the nozzle?
 
Does this mean there's no automatic cutoff when the fuel backs up to the nozzle?

Correct, you have to look inside the tank and let go of the trigger when its getting full. The other advice I've received is don't tap the nozzle on the filler ring when you're done. Its asking for an electrical discharge.
 
Correct, you have to look inside the tank and let go of the trigger when its getting full. The other advice I've received is don't tap the nozzle on the filler ring when you're done. Its asking for an electrical discharge.

All of the above is correct, and I wanted to quote about the tap on the ring, because that is great advice.

The only reason I know anything is because I was a rampy for a bit. Self service is easy, if you follow the steps.


1) Pull the static line and clamp it to either the designated metal standoff or plug, or to a metal nut on your nose gear. It will normally be on a spring loaded reel, so just give it a quick tug to get it to lock.
2) Release enough fuel hose to comfortably go under the wing and up the ladder without pulling the hose against your aircraft.
3) Hold the hose away from the flaps/trailing edge of your wing and place the nozzle in the filler hole. That hose is heavy, so you're keeping stress off your flaps and the thin sheet metal.
4) Don't put the nozzle all the way in, because the wing is shallow and it will splatter fuel out the neck. Hold it about halfway down the neck (2"-3") inside on an angle TOWARDS the fuselage (the deepest part of the tank) and be high enough on the ladder to see into the filler neck.
5) There is a metal piece hanging down into the tank, that is the "tab" that you can fill to, or you can top it off.
6) There is NO stopper, so as you start seeing fuel reaching the tab, you need to slow WAAY down, because it will go from tab to full QUICK!
(Note: remember that your wing is on a dihedral, and not straight level, so the tank will fill up near the fuselage first and work its way up the wing, so that's why the tab is there, to let you know that you are filled up at the base/inner portion of the tank.)
8) Once you're filled up or to the tabs, remove the nozzle, walk it down the ladder and set it gently on the ground. Replace the fuel cap ( locking tab should snap towards the rear of the plane)
9) Roll the hose back up using the hand crank, or the auto-reel button and click the nozzle back into the saddle
10) Remove the static line from your nosegear/standoff and give it another quick tug to get it to start spooling the line back up.
11) Make sure that you ALWAYS do a quick fuel sump to make sure the fuel you just filled your aircraft with is water-free.
12) Go have a great flight with your kids, and don't forget to PULL YOUR CHOCKS if you put them out.


That was long-winded, but I hope that helps everyone with self-service pumps, I hope you have a wonderful flight!

Congratulations on your PPL, and I hope you ordered your kids headsets from us. :)
 
Last edited:
This is great info. Shane: thanks for the step-by-step. I've never so much as touched a fuel hose, so that's perfect. Thanks everyone.
 
Next real life flying thing you will learn... Google maps or Google earth are your friend, use them to get familiar with the airport beyond what a diagram will show you :)

I was going to post pictures here but it would be better to teach you to fish so to say ;) look up KVNC on google maps in satellite view and find the self serve pumps on the field. (hint, look at the northern part of the field at about 1 o'clock

If I were doing it, I would get on the ramp with the pumps and aim straight at the pumps (aiming roughly 270). you can push straight back and if no one else pulls up you can hook a 90 south to get off the ramp. if someone pulls up you can just push back further. Actually if I was getting fancy I might offset slightly to the top edge of the ramp to allow someone to come in at a 45 on the pumps.

If you have a hard time understanding this let me know and I'll send you some marked up photos, but would rather you try first.

I also have to say this since I'm a father of a just turned 11 y/o. It seems obvious but your kids will most likely be kinda awestruck by the airplanes etc. If it is busy around the pumps, make sure your wife keeps control of the kids movements while you are working on fueling since each task requires almost full attention.

BTW... I'm not sure anyone has said it yet... A BIG FREAKIN CONGRATULATIONS!!! WELCOME TO THE FAMILY!

Andy
 
Thanks!

I'll take a look. Didn't think of Google maps to scope out the pumps.

Suggested new title for thread: Community teaches new dog old tricks :D

Next real life flying thing you will learn... Google maps or Google earth are your friend, use them to get familiar with the airport beyond what a diagram will show you :)

I was going to post pictures here but it would be better to teach you to fish so to say ;) look up KVNC on google maps in satellite view and find the self serve pumps on the field. (hint, look at the northern part of the field at about 1 o'clock

If I were doing it, I would get on the ramp with the pumps and aim straight at the pumps (aiming roughly 270). you can push straight back and if no one else pulls up you can hook a 90 south to get off the ramp. if someone pulls up you can just push back further. Actually if I was getting fancy I might offset slightly to the top edge of the ramp to allow someone to come in at a 45 on the pumps.

If you have a hard time understanding this let me know and I'll send you some marked up photos, but would rather you try first.

I also have to say this since I'm a father of a just turned 11 y/o. It seems obvious but your kids will most likely be kinda awestruck by the airplanes etc. If it is busy around the pumps, make sure your wife keeps control of the kids movements while you are working on fueling since each task requires almost full attention.

BTW... I'm not sure anyone has said it yet... A BIG FREAKIN CONGRATULATIONS!!! WELCOME TO THE FAMILY!

Andy
 
Same for me in 2008. Just ask any pilot, A&P or line guy, they will gladly help a new guy. All of us have and will continue to have "first time" for this or that.

Tips from my family(13/10 yr olds)trips...some may not apply.

Take snacks, drinks, chewing gum, air sickness med, headache med, gallon zip locks/paper towels(sick sacks), toilet paper, spare prescription glasses in case of bird strike, sun glasses, iPods, wear cotton/wool as much as possible, long sleeves/pants as much as possible, no open toe shoes, qt eng oil, tie down ropes, covers, plugs, gust locks, CO detection stick on, plexi cleaner/microfiber cloth, spare cash, fuel sampler(wait 10 min to check), cheap ponchos- 4 ea, small chocks, get flight following, check with FSS on at least TFR's, hold fuel hose over shoulder to prevent scratches/cocking tube in filler neck, watch out- pump volume can be 2-3 times your auto pumps(yes, my plane and I have taken a 100LL bath together), check wx often, check turbulence potential, explain /practice door operation/exiting to kids with simulated incapacitated front seater, it is okay to kick windows out if necessary, portable com, red/white flashlight just in case sunset comes earlier than planned(yes, remember "fall back", I do), check interior/exterior lighting during preflight, know how to turn lights on at your destination and practice sterile cockpit rules on descent/pattern entry.

Good luck getting everyone to watch for planes on more than a 30 min flight. My family starts reading eyelids due to engine noise. Oops, forgot to turn on their O2 again. Be prepared for, "Are we there yet?" Now, they know to watch for descent, power reduction or ETD on EFIS.

Don't ever hesitate to cancel or make that 180 degree turn. I hated to the first time. It got easier after that. Don't ever stop practicing slow flight and stalls loaded. That reminds me...If you have not flown near full gross, please go get a CFI and another pilot and do some T&G's, slow flight and stalls. My first full gross 172 flight was with my family and could have been our last. During my RV test flying, I used dogfood/water.

Have fun. Kids won't realize how unique and fortunate they are for several years.
 
...Any tips or advice pertaining to the above, or for a first flight with kids, is appreciated.

[EDIT] - Clarity

Congratulations! I have very little flying experience since the year after I got my certificate so i can't give you sound advice but i can share some info on first flight with my kids.

Prepare for the pre-flight to take longer than usual if the kids are interested in being part of it (which would be cool). You could explain what you are doing and why (dont scare them though lol). But while doing this, do not get distracted - priority is a complete preflight and only then the explanation.

At 7 and 10 years old the shoulder belts might fit them well - but for the younger kid consider a way to raise their seating position so they can see better and have the shoulder belt fit them well. (With my kids, 8 and 2, i made the mistake of not having a way to seat them higher and because the shoulder belt would cross over their face/neck, i had them wear only the lap belt on that first flight).

It's great that you have a plan to engage the kids while in flight. Remind them that there might be moments when you will ask them to be quiet so you can hear ATC and that it's all normal ;).

On the return flight, assuming weight and balance allows, consider having a different passenger in the front seat in case they would like to be up front.

Don't put too much pressure on yourself; just make it a safe flight first, and anything else is a distant second ;)

On my first short flight around the pattern with the kids (they were my first ever pax) i was more nervous than i was during the checkride; not uneasy, just a bit more "getting ready for the unexpected" ;-)

Here is a video from back then - it is lenghty (edited for maximum 15 minutes youtube allows for the type of account i have setup), not very exciting for the casual viewer, but for me it was one of the most memorable flights (i also had a great flight with my dad soon thereafter).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFYx77KXhzI&sns=em

It's really cool that you have the chance to take your family flying so go have fun.
 
I find it pretty weird that a licensed pilot wouldn't know how to use self serve fuel

I've rented planes all across the US but I only pumped my own fuel once, in 2005. Other airports I've landed at all use an FBO's fuel truck.
 
.....Here is a video from back then - it is lenghty (edited for maximum 15 minutes youtube allows for the type of account i have setup), not very exciting for the casual viewer, but for me it was one of the most memorable flights (i also had a great flight with my dad soon thereafter).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFYx77KXhzI&sns=em
...


10:30 "Daddy look at the road!" hahahah! and you thought the people of PoA give you a hard time about using cameras in flight!! too cute.
 
Agree with all of the above. Flying holds my 6 year olds interest for a few minutes then he is asking for the iPad to watch movies. Parenting fail? Maybe.

Oh please don't insist on running all of your preflight checks as you sit in front of the fuel pumps after filling up. Chances are someone else is waiting for you to move so they can get fuel too! It amazes me how many times I have seen that in my short flying career.
 
Had written a longish post but the browser gremlins ate it. Long, short - bring cushions so your kids can see out the front of the airplane. I started flying the CTLS mainly for my then 11-year-old son.

 
Well, I made this flight on Saturday. Below is my write-up, pretty much unedited from the debrief I sent my instructor by email just to get her thoughts.

--

Virginia and I went down Friday and I knocked out some pattern work to knock the rust out since Saturday was with the kids. Had a fun flight. I had the plane reserved from 9 - 3 on Saturday. Seemed plenty of time to head down, shuttle to Sharky's on the Pier, eat, and fly back. We were well under gross even with all four of us. Weight and balance was good.

I got up about 8 on Saturday. Weather was great at KPIE, but I checked KVNC and there was morning fog and low visibility. So we took our time waiting for that to "burn off." I watched the METAR down there and it cleared up. Weather was beautiful. We headed to CAMS and took our time loading up the kids, making sure they could work the doors and seat belts, etc. Engine start about 11am.

Winds were out of the NE at something around 10 kts both at KPIE and KVNC. Takeoff was good off 09, headed SW VFR on our own down the coast. The flight down was great. I think the wind was 11 kts at KVNC but literally right down runway 05. Entered the downwind, no other traffic in the pattern, made a great landing that even Virginia commented on. We parked at Suncoast FBO (I had called the day before) and they marshalled us to a parking spot. Hopped out and took the free shuttle to Sharky's. Got a nice table out on the deck and had lunch. About halfway through lunch I look out from under the thatched roof of the restaurant and see a cloud deck building. By the time we're done with lunch there's a solid cloud deck and I'm trying to use my phone to check METARs but I've got no signal at the restaurant. We get the shuttle back to the airport and I've got a signal. By now I'm seeing not only a cloud deck but some lower, darker clouds.

We're back at the airport a bit before 2:00pm and I check the weather. MVFR! Winds are picking up and now gusting. Clouds jumping back and forth from SCT to BKN about 2,500ft and an overcast layer a bit above that. I wait a bit and it's not really improving, so I make the call that we'll wait for improving weather because I'm really not comfortable with it, especially my first flight with the kids. I call Gwen at CAMS and let her know I'm supposed to have the plane back at 3 but I don't think I'm going to make it due to low ceilings at KVNC. Someone had he plane after me so I think she had to switch them.

A bit later rain and even lower clouds move through, and the wind is gusting up to 16+ kts or so. We wait until about 3:45 and there's still some misty rain and METAR still jumping back and forth between MVFR and VFR. I'm also checking the METARs north up the coast at KSRQ, KSPG, and KPIE, and all have ceilings 6,000ft+ with no precipitation and lighter wind. One of the inland stations east of KVNC shows precipitation and the weather is moving east to west. By now we've been just sitting at the FBO or in the plane for about 2 hours and the kids are constantly asking when we can leave. The little guy keeps saying "how long?" "When the weather clears up a bit." "Yes but how many minutes?" Virginia seems a little impatient too. Obviously none of them really understand how important it is that I be safe with the weather. This is the point where I can really see how get-home-itis hurts folks.

About 10 'til 4:00 I tell them that if the weather hasn't markedly improved by 4pm we'll walk back into the FBO and start looking for a hotel. I'm still not comfortable with the weather, which is still bouncing to MVFR, and I don't want to fly back after dark. They are not impressed about having to spend the night because the kids were supposed to go visit their Dad that evening. But I'm sticking to my guns. (It doesn't help that 5 to 6 planes leave while we're sitting there on the tarmac; obviously IFR or with an MVFR clearance.)

A bit after 4:00, the wind begins to die, the light intermittent rain stops, and I see blue sky peeking through the cloud deck. KVNC automated weather shows lower clouds are now FEW and there's just a BKN layer I believe above 4k ft. I check all the METARs up the coast and all show significantly higher ceilings, with light wind and no rain. About 4:15 I make the call that the weather is acceptable and it's early enough to get us home before dark, so we head back to KPIE. The flight back was uneventful, calm winds, ceilings far above our flight altitude and far above min VFR ceilings, and no low clouds. Tower puts us on a right base for 09, which gives about a 5 or 6 kt left crosswind. Landing is decent and we tie up and are done more than 2 hours after our scheduled return time.

It was not what I'd call an ideal first flight with the family, but I am relatively pleased with my decision making. Being such a low time pilot, I'm in that strange spot where I don't know what I don't know. I was ultra conservative with weather during training, and I know I'll need to become a bit more comfortable with weather that isn't perfect if I expect to ever go anywhere. But even when I finally made the decision to go, I wasn't entirely sure whether it was the right decision. I believe it was, but just because it worked out doesn't mean it was the right decision.

So there you have it! Only the little boy appears to "love" flying. Virginia and her daughter I think will shortly consider the flight just a mode of transportation, and the destination will become the fun part. I have to admit it's a little disheartening that they don't love the act of flying like I do, but I guess not all of us have the sickness. ;)
 
Nice writeup, but there is no such thing as an MVFR clearance. Did you mean SVFR?

Flying MVFR is no different than VFR except traffic and some checkpoints can be a lot harder to see.

And even METARs can differ from reality. My last flight was in reported 6 miles visibility, but it was really closer to 4 at TPA on the approach side of the airport, where it matters most.
 
Nice writeup, but there is no such thing as an MVFR clearance. Did you mean SVFR?

Flying MVFR is no different than VFR except traffic and some checkpoints can be a lot harder to see.

And even METARs can differ from reality. My last flight was in reported 6 miles visibility, but it was really closer to 4 at TPA on the approach side of the airport, where it matters most.

Yes, thank you, I did.
 
Back when I was newly minted, I used to recon airports BEFORE flying out with a passenger. Last thing I was going to do is screw it up with an audience. Now, it's like driving a car some place new. No big deal.
Call the FBO ahead of time to see what their local procedures might be. Check the AFD and online here, AOPA or AIRNAV for write ups. Talk to your favorite CFI. There's nothing like chatting it up to get hints and tips.
By the way, I do not find it strange that you had never used a selfserve aviation pump. I had been flying for 20 years before faced with my first selfserve. Eastport Maine and no one in attendance, no phone to call for help, and a must serve because the next nearest was further away than available fuel in the tank. It just took a logical approach, a calm approach, and a major credit card! Not much different than your local gas station.
 
Sounds like you were smart and made good choices! Couple things that really helped me branch out a little bit when I first started flying on my own after getting my PPL were I would go out on my own in days where the weather was not great and just go to the local practice area just so I could experience what it would be like to fly on less than ideal days. I slowly built up confidence that way. I'm still pretty cautious but I no longer require "clear and forever" conditions to exist before I take off.

Also just a word from some experience, I've done the above flight to the practice area a few times in MVFR and have established that the low cloud deck is never a problem as long as they are stable and not lowering. In your situation, if the clouds were wavering up, then you may have been safe. It's really the visibility that worries me. I don't go if I can't see at least 5 to 6 miles. That's just my limitations.

I certainly can't fault you for anything you did. You had the most precious cargo you will ever carry on board- alway better safe than sorry!
 
Last edited:
Sounds like a good first flight/ADM. Don't feel bad...my family does not care about flying/clouds/button pushing much either. That is okay because I am not into knitting/painting/sewing. My wife/navigator is a big help on our xc flights. I worked my way down to about 2500' ceilings/6+ vis by myself. I then went up with a cfi to experience 1000'-1500' clg/3-5 mi vis. I learned where to set my limits and stick to them.

Here is part of the AFD(Area Forecast Discussion) for your area on Sat Nov 30...
if you see "tight pressure gradient" mentioned, you will want to be prepared for a windy day. Wx is so much fun to study, fly in, then study some more when you are back home to see what the professionals were talking about.

.AVIATION...
SOME SCATTERED TO BROKEN LOW CLOUDS IN THE IFR RANGE MAY IMPACT
THE TERMINALS BETWEEN 10-14Z THIS MORNING...OTHERWISE VFR IS
EXPECTED DURING THE NEXT 24 HOURS. NORTHEAST WINDS AROUND 10 KNOTS
THIS MORNING WILL INCREASE TO 12 TO 14 KNOTS AFTER 18Z WITH SOME
GUSTS UP TO 21 KNOTS. NORTHEAST WINDS WILL DIMINISH TO 6 TO 8 KNOTS AFTER 01Z .

This is something I always start reading 2 days out for my departure, enroute(if applicable) and destination airports...

http://forecast.weather.gov/product...W&product=AFD&format=CI&version=22&glossary=1

Remember, wx can be worse or better than forecast, so always plan for various scenarios. I only fly vfr(love it) and no schedule or we drive. Family must be flexible. Your family will like seeing you study and continue practicing maneuvers that can save your lives. Mine does. Have fun. Gotta get to work.
 
...I fly my own plane so I've filled it up quite a bit during training. Our local FBO had been price matching the pump prices on the field for years apparently and right after I got my PPL they decided to jack their 100LL price up $1.50 over the pump price!

That sucked - I used to just call them on the UNICOM as I was taxiing in to my hangar and the truck would meet me there, fill it up and I was done. I think they charged like 10 cents over the pumps or something - totally reasonable to not have to deal with a shutdown/restart 100 yards from your hangar. They would even hold a hangar key and fill it up for you in the AM if you flew in late or after dark and didn't want to hit the pumps.

Now, there's no freckin' way I'm paying almost $6.00/gal when I can buy it for $4.60 at the pumps. I can think of really no situation where it's worth paying that premium. I understand FBO's need to make some money but seriously, $1.50/gal over on field pump prices??

As others have mentioned - it's not a big deal. Just beware the gas comes out FAST out of those pumps. Every place I've been has pretty detailed info on how to get it going and the pumps are usually pretty similar. The one on my field is just like an old school gas station pump. You pay, it approves you, you slide the handle thingy on the pump and away you go. When you're done you retract the static line and the pump hose and shut the pump off.
 
Back
Top