First Aerobatics Lesson

Jay Honeck

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Jay Honeck
Is scheduled for Sunday...and I am stoked! :D

We've had the -8A for a month now, and have racked up about 20 hours APIECE in it. Yep, 40 hours in a month. Yeehaw! :D

After that much stick time, I feel like I can pretty much thread the needle with her, and am ready for new challenges. Both of us have flown some aerobatics in a Decathlon, and we also did some in a friend's -8, but Mary is uber-cautious and wants professional instruction before we just go up and start noodling around with loops and rolls.

Which, of course, makes sense. The guy we're going up with owns an -8, and teaches aerobatics to Air Force pilots, so I'm pretty sure we will get a good lesson.

Any advice from you experienced aerobatic pilots? What should we ask to see? All we really want to do is some basic, "Gentleman's aerobatics" -- rolls, barrel rolls, etc. Nothing too radical or negative G.
 
If you hear "would you like to try some Cuban 8's?" just say no.
 
What should we ask to see?

Nothing, really. Any decent aerobatic instructor will have a lesson plan, but will also gauge your tolerance and physical state during the flight. There's nothing in beginner aerobatic lessons that you need to ask to "see" that you cannot do on your own as part of the lesson. An intro lesson should cover the very basics:

- Operating limitations, first and foremost.
- G tolerance techniques and physiological effects.
- Rudder usage associated with slipstream, adverse yaw, and gyroscopic precession.
- Spin recovery (you ARE within W&B limits right?) ;)
- Positive G aileron rolls
- Barrel rolls (and what makes them go bad)
- Loops, where to look and when.
- Half Cubans and proper rudder usage on the roll from inverted to upright.

And if things are going well and you're feeling good, you can try a hammerhead or two. Though this is the most technique-intensive of the basic maneuvers, and the easiest to screw up badly. You may not have enough time in the first flight to cover it properly. How many instructional flights are you planning?

All we really want to do is some basic, "Gentleman's aerobatics" -- rolls, barrel rolls, etc. Nothing too radical or negative G.

There's not much radical about RV aerobatics, and it's a good idea to have a double lap belt (with different mounting points) if you are doing any negative G (even brief). And unless you have an oil separator, you'll dump a good bit of oil out once you get around zero to negative territory. Nobody likes negative G at first. But like anything else, you'd get used to it and think nothing of it. It does open up another level of aerobatic flying and technique.

Okay, now I must ask why? Isn't that just two loops, back to back, sorta?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Eight

5/8 loop with a half roll from inverted to upright on the downline, repeat. Though in the RV, you'll start rolling around 30 degrees nose down, and end about 45 degrees nose down to keep it positive (G). Not sure what Wayne meant by his comment. The Cuban is an acro 101 maneuver in any aerobatic airplane. Although in the RV, it's the maneuver you're most likely to blow redline in if you don't do it properly.

And do get Alan Cassidy's book.
 
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- Spin recovery (you ARE within W&B limits right?) ;)

That is something I must check. We SHOULD be, but I don't know how big this guy is. Unless he's 300 pounds, we should be good as far as W&B go.

And if things are going well and you're feeling good, you can try a hammerhead or two. Though this is the most technique-intensive of the basic maneuvers, and the easiest to screw up badly. You may not have enough time in the first flight to cover it properly.

Interesting! I've actually done hammerheads, both with a guy in his 8, and in mine, and found them to be quite simple. What, in your opinion, is so hard about them?

It seemed pretty easy to me -- pull up into the vertical, wait until you're just about out of speed, and kick right rudder. Over and down we went, easy-peasy. :dunno:

What could possibly go wrong? :lol:

it's a good idea to have a double lap belt (with different mounting points) if you are doing any negative G (even brief).

Both holes have 5-point Hooker harnesses, so we're good to go, there.

Although in the RV, it's the maneuver you're most likely to blow redline in if you don't do it properly.

Yeah, I was thinking (just looking at the diagram) that it must be easy to go like stink on the downline. I don't think we'll try anything so advanced.

I'm just interested in 30 to 45 minutes with each of us -- just to walk us through the maneuvers in OUR PLANE. This will hopefully assuage Mary's fears, and allow us to tiptoe into mild aerobatic maneuvers on our own.

On my own, I don't intend to anything more violent than rolls, wing-overs, and maybe a loop. I want to know how to do these maneuvers safely, and as comfortably as possible. That's it. I'm too old for anything too exciting! :lol:
 
Searched for Cassidy's book on eBay and came up with the below...

AMAZON.jpg
 
Interesting! I've actually done hammerheads, both with a guy in his 8, and in mine, and found them to be quite simple. What, in your opinion, is so hard about them?

It seemed pretty easy to me -- pull up into the vertical, wait until you're just about out of speed, and kick right rudder. Over and down we went, easy-peasy. :dunno:

To fly one perfectly is hard (for me at least)! There are lots of opportunities to make errors that hurt your score in competition. Any deviation positive or negative on the vertical upline or downline results in deduction. Drag a wing slightly during those lines: deduction.

The kick has to be timed such that the pivot occurs completely within one wingspan. That moment when you kick is different every time. Torque at all during that pivot: deduction.
 
I took a few aerobatic lessons a number of years ago. Anything that had negative Gs was physically uncomfortable for a while. Maneuvers like spins where you "recover" to a vertical down line took a leap of faith to execute, for me, at least, and I will try almost anything.
 
Interesting! I've actually done hammerheads, both with a guy in his 8, and in mine, and found them to be quite simple. What, in your opinion, is so hard about them?

It seemed pretty easy to me -- pull up into the vertical, wait until you're just about out of speed, and kick right rudder. Over and down we went, easy-peasy. :dunno:

What could possibly go wrong? :lol:

Sorry to come across as condescending...I really don't intend it, but doing sloppy aerobatics is very easy. Doing precise aerobatics is challenging. Hammerheads are no different. And what kind of plane you were flying a right rudder hammer in? Russian airplane? :)

A good precise hammerhead is a fairly complex maneuver - and even more so in high power-to-weight ratio airplanes like RVs and Pitts'....especially if swinging a metal prop. If all you're looking to do is get the nose to flop over in a way what somewhat resembles a hammerhead, then I guess the "technique" you describe could be as simple as that. But let me ask you this question - do you have an appreciation for the art of flying? Do you take pride in your flying? Do you have an interest in stick-and-rudder technique? Are you happy just getting the plane up and down, or do you find satisfaction in the challenge of the smallest things? For me, simply watching the horizon flip around during acro does very little for me. There's no adrenalin, and I don't find it "exciting". What I do enjoy is attempting to fly artfully and the challenge and the learning process of making the airplane do exactly what I want, with high levels of precision. Aerobatics provides limitless potential for this, and nobody ever truly masters every aspect of it.

Anyway back on track - Hammerheads. A high-powered airplane like an RV will be torque-affected at the top of the pivot. If not, then you're pivoting with too much airspeed, and it's a "fly-over" rather than a pivot. The objective is the tightest possible pivot. Imagine a nail through the center of the airplane. That's the idea anyway, even if most airplanes can't quite achieve it. The torque at the top will likely require some progressive right aileron input near the top. Definitely required in the Pitts and other high-powered planes to prevent torque rolling before the pivot. Propellor slipstream will yaw the airplane slightly left wing low near the top, so some progressive, slight right rudder will be needed to keep the airplane wings level in yaw. Maintain the perfectly vertical line. Now you must judge the exact right moment to pivot the airplane. Too early and you'll "fly over" with a lethargic pivot and a wide pivot radius. Pivot too late, and you'll slide backwards a little, it'll be hard to maintain the pivot plane, and it'll be ugly. Lots of folks have found themselves in accidental inverted spins while learning hammers in a Pitts.

There are different techniques for judging the exact right time to pivot the airplane. I don't want to get too carried away (ha), so I won't go into it here unless you're interested. But I'll say that airspeed is worthless, and looking at the ground doesn't tell you anything either.

So as soon as you kick **left** rudder in the RV (and any airplane with a Lycoming-turning engine), there will be an immediate gyroscopic pitch reaction toward the canopy. This requires some forward stick to control, keeping the plane of the pivot precise. So during the pivot, you're holding some right aileron, full left rudder, full power, and some forward stick.

At a point a certain degree before you reach vertical down (aircraft specific), you apply full opposite rudder and the airplane stops perfectly vertical in pitch and yaw downward. As soon as the pivot stops, you simultaneously neutralize both the rudder and elevator. Elevator errors here will pitch you off plane. Rudder errors will cause you to underpivot or "pendulum" before stabilizing on the downline. The right aileron must be momentarily held after the pivot stops due to the low airspeed and propellor torque. Hold it too long and you'll roll off plane. Too little before, during, and after and you'll "torque".

So there's a lot of technique involved in doing a high-quality hammerhead, and there's a lot to go wrong. "Torquing" is the most common problem (allowing the airplane to roll slightly during the pivot). Also kicking too early is a problem issue. I guarantee you a perfect hammerhead is not a brain-dead maneuver. Watch the Team RV guys when they do their formation hammerheads. I know that here, the objective is to do them in formation rather than do them perfectly, but if you watch carefully, you will see some torquing and some under-pivots (not vertical down).

I could go on way too long about technique for even basic maneuvers - spins, loops, and rolls. Even the roll - it can be the simplest maneuver in the world that a non-pilot could successfully perform on the first try, or it can be a precision figure (level roll) that requires a lot of technique and practice to do well. It all depends on what you want to get out of aerobatics, and if you have a real interest in the art of aerobatics. If you just like "flopping" around on occasion, that's great too. Most recreational acro pilots are in the "flopper" category. By that, I mean those who have little interest in the art of aerobatics, and only want to see the horizon roll around. Don't get me wrong, I really don't mean that in a bad way. The only way you're an unsuccessful aerobatic pilot is if you're not enjoying yourself, and if you're unsafe. But there's a very small percentage of us out there who really have the sickness and live and breathe acro down to the smallest detail.
 
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Wow! Thanks for the exhaustive dissertation!

I have always been fascinated with aerobatics. Had I been able to learn to fly at a younger age, and been given the gift of wealth, I could imagine that I might have pursued the art of aerobatics to the level you describe.

Alas, I couldn't connect the flying dots until I was 35, and have only now obtained a marginally capable aerobatic plane at the ripe old age of 54 -- too old, I fear, to pursue that long lost dream.

So, my goals now are much more modest. I want to learn the correct entry speeds and sight picture to perform safe, 1G maneuvers. I want to recognize and be able to recover from a spin.

If I do a hammerhead, no one will ever see it, except me, and Mary, if she's in back. There will be no judges, no scoring, and the only way I win is if the wings stay attached and lunch stays down.

And I'm okay with that. I'm at an age now where driving bumper cars gives me a sore neck, and I have to lift my right arm with my left arm after a day of remodeling. I'd probably break my hip if I tried to do a lomcevak... :D

But I will always admire the work you guys do, and part of me will always wish I had been able to do it.
 
Alas, I couldn't connect the flying dots until I was 35, and have only now obtained a marginally capable aerobatic plane at the ripe old age of 54 -- too old, I fear, to pursue that long lost dream.

Damn, I hope not. I am 60 and plan on becoming quite good at it. Time will tell.
 
Don't try and do too much at once... unless you can handle it. Some people just need to build somewhat of a tolerance for it, and you don't want to have a miserable flight by trying to "Keep going!" Tomorrow is another day. Sounds like a hoot
 
Interesting! I've actually done hammerheads, both with a guy in his 8, and in mine, and found them to be quite simple. What, in your opinion, is so hard about them?

It seemed pretty easy to me -- pull up into the vertical, wait until you're just about out of speed, and kick right rudder. Over and down we went, easy-peasy. :dunno:

What could possibly go wrong? :lol:
... until you go over on your back and enter an inverted spin.

Are inverted spins/recoveries part of the syllabus?
 
Any advice from you experienced aerobatic pilots? What should we ask to see? All we really want to do is some basic, "Gentleman's aerobatics" -- rolls, barrel rolls, etc. Nothing too radical or negative G.

I ain't no experienced aerobatic pilot. I'm a do it every once in a while and eff it up aerobatic pilot.

So, from my perspective, you want to know spins - inside and out (pun intended). Not just normal upright spins, but inverted spins, crossover spins, and accelerated spins.

You will screw up and fall out of maneuvers. That often puts you in a spin. You need to know what kind of spin it is so you can get your sorry butt out of it. And you need to have it down cold. Depending on the airplane, even if you do the right things but do them in the wrong order you can accelerate the spin instead of recovering. I don't know how your RV reacts.
 
at the ripe old age of 54 -- too old, I fear, to pursue that long lost dream.

54?? So you'd be one of the younger guys at an aerobatic contest. A little more acro experience and I think your perspective will shift. Studying, practicing, and flying artfully is no harder on the body than just "flopping around". For the life of me, I can't think of how you would beat yourself up doing acro in an RV. BTW, despite what most people think (who haven't done one), Lomcevaks (tumbles) are neither violent, nor something you'll want to do in an RV. :) Newbies would cry uncle a lot faster doing rolling turns, outside snaps, or just plain negative G pushes. You'd be surprised what your body can acclimate to, when at first you might cry uncle.
 
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