First 100% biofuel jet flight.

What's cool about these fuels are that they are apparently carbon neutral or even "negative carbon." That is, they take more carbon out of the atmosphere in growing than they put back in when they're burned. Allegedly, at least.
 
As an energy source, it is probably about as practical as one of these:

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Creating a "new" fuel isn't really impressive. Creating a new fuel that is economically viable would be impressive. All of the ethanol nonsense that has been pushed by Congress (i.e., attempts to bring home the bacon in exchange for votes) doesn't seem to have panned out too well. Even Al Gore himself admitted that he supported Ethanol only to get votes (not that it is surprising that a politician made bad policy decisions to get votes, it is just surprising that he admitted it on camera). Growing your own fuel in an economically viable manner is going to be very, very difficult, due simple to the tremendous amount of energy required to plant, maintain and harvest a crop.

Don't get me wrong, I wish it would pan out, even with a slight price increase. I have serious doubts that it will be even remotely viable though.
 
^^^^^ What he said.
 
SteveR said:
Creating a "new" fuel isn't really impressive. Creating a new fuel that is economically viable would be impressive. All of the ethanol nonsense that has been pushed by Congress (i.e., attempts to bring home the bacon in exchange for votes) doesn't seem to have panned out too well. Even Al Gore himself admitted that he supported Ethanol only to get votes (not that it is surprising that a politician made bad policy decisions to get votes, it is just surprising that he admitted it on camera). Growing your own fuel in an economically viable manner is going to be very, very difficult, due simple to the tremendous amount of energy required to plant, maintain and harvest a crop.
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Guess we don't need to worry about the political influences this time since it's being developed in Canada.
 
Everskyward said:
I think it's a good idea to pursue but I'm wondering how much land would be necessary to produce enough to make a difference.
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Have you ever flown over Western Oklahoma, most of Arizona, New Mexico, South Eastern Colorado, most of Utah and Nevada ? What the heck are we doing with ALL that "very special" land now ?

What's even more exciting is the bio-diesel that can be made from raw-sewage. I don't think there's any worry of ever running out of any of that. Or we can choose to be like Fox News and shoot down anything that isn't a 100% plug and play instant solution. I am a veteran not a granola-head and I love any idea that frees us from having to depend on outside nations for our energy needs.
 
How about domestic oil, natural gas, and coal instead of having to try to irrigate places in the middle of nowhere to grow stuff?

The reason all those places you mentioned are barren? NO WATER. Good luck with that.
 
Art VanDelay said:
Have you ever flown over Western Oklahoma, most of Arizona, New Mexico, South Eastern Colorado, most of Utah and Nevada ? What the heck are we doing with ALL that "very special" land now ?

What's even more exciting is the bio-diesel that can be made from raw-sewage. I don't think there's any worry of ever running out of any of that. Or we can choose to be like Fox News and shoot down anything that isn't a 100% plug and play instant solution. I am a veteran not a granola-head and I love any idea that frees us from having to depend on outside nations for our energy needs.
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I'm probably more a granola-head than most, but like Anthony says, unless biofuel can grow with very little water they'll have a problem growing it in those places
 
Art VanDelay said:
Have you ever flown over Western Oklahoma, most of Arizona, New Mexico, South Eastern Colorado, most of Utah and Nevada ? What the heck are we doing with ALL that "very special" land now ?
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I'm not agreeable to the destruction of millions of acres of fragile desert just for political points. Solar and wind power are unreliable, costly, and inefficient. Just the erosion from wind turbine access roads is causing irreparable harm to the environment.
 
jpower said:
What's cool about these fuels are that they are apparently carbon neutral or even "negative carbon." That is, they take more carbon out of the atmosphere in growing than they put back in when they're burned. Allegedly, at least.
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I thought it was funny they had a chase plane following, just to take air samples. I guess that is part of it.

sdpilot said:
It isn't the first. I believe swift fuel has been used quite a bit in engines and is undergoing testing now.

http://swiftfuels.com/
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The article says they are the First to fly without blending it. 100% biofuel. Others have been blending for a while. IDK if that is true, just what it says.

SteveR said:
Creating a "new" fuel isn't really impressive. Creating a new fuel that is economically viable would be impressive. All of the ethanol nonsense that has been pushed by Congress (i.e., attempts to bring home the bacon in exchange for votes) doesn't seem to have panned out too well. Even Al Gore himself admitted that he supported Ethanol only to get votes (not that it is surprising that a politician made bad policy decisions to get votes, it is just surprising that he admitted it on camera). Growing your own fuel in an economically viable manner is going to be very, very difficult, due simple to the tremendous amount of energy required to plant, maintain and harvest a crop.

Don't get me wrong, I wish it would pan out, even with a slight price increase. I have serious doubts that it will be even remotely viable though.
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While I agree, I wonder myself if its really going to be possible. How long does it take to make? How much $ to produce? How much can you make etc... I just cant see it being cost effective for the real market.
 
Anthony said:
Sea algae! :D
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I don't know much about biojet, but I do know that biodiesel can be produced from practically anything with a sufficient hydrocarbon and lipid content. Sea algae is, in fact, a promising source, as are many common weeds, non-edible parts of food crops (stalks, husks, etc.), spoiled vegetables, waste cooking oil, road kill, and even sewage.

Remember that Rudolf Diesel designed his engine with the idea that farmers could produce their own fuel. As it happened, petroleum was a less-expensive raw material. But the use of petroleum for "diesel fuel" was not the original plan. Biodiesel was the original "diesel fuel."

I don't know enough about chemistry or engineering to comment on the specific suitability of biojet. Even aside from the regulatory hurdles -- which surely will be of ponderous height and number -- the fuel's high-altitude / low temperature characteristics must be considered, as well as the possibility of damage to fuel system and engine components in existing aircraft that were designed to use petroleum-based, kerosene-like fuels.

But I do know enough not to dismiss the idea out of hand. There are farmers up here who have been manufacturing their own biodiesel for years, and it's not all that complicated a process from what I'm told. One farmer told me that biodiesel's a lot easier to make than moonshine. I didn't ask him how he knew that...

-Rich
 
I know someone who was on a biodiesel kick for a while. He bought some sort of kit and started collecting leftover cooking oil from restaurants. I thought it was working out OK for him but maybe he decided it was too much effort for not enough return because he doesn't do it any more.
 
Everskyward said:
I know someone who was on a biodiesel kick for a while. He bought some sort of kit and started collecting leftover cooking oil from restaurants. I thought it was working out OK for him but maybe he decided it was too much effort for not enough return because he doesn't do it any more.
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Or possibly commercial biofuel producers started outbidding him for the grease.

I had a friend in Washington State who was making home-brewed biodiesel back when restaurants were still paying companies to haul away their grease. But when some company out there started paying restaurants for their grease, my buddy decided that the process of extracting lipids out of other biomass sources was more than he felt like getting into.

-Rich
 
3393RP said:
I'm not agreeable to the destruction of millions of acres of fragile desert just for political points. Solar and wind power are unreliable, costly, and inefficient. Just the erosion from wind turbine access roads is causing irreparable harm to the environment.
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hmmmm... but building refinery's, pipelines, etc is good for the enviroment?
 
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