First 1.7 hours of real building

Looks good! Will be interesting to see if Nick's water bill for the airplane is more than his engine or wood costs! :)
 
Nick, I've always seen folks using small wood blocks to make the jig - they are less likely to score the side of the wood the way a nail might do so. Just a thought for consideration.
 
For what its worth I used small blocks screwed to my table and only enough to accomplish the task of either supporting an intersecting brace or making the bend. At the bends I put them on the outside and inside pressure points to support the bend and stress points then added top blocks across them center drilled to act as hold downs. I guess like a set of stop blocks with top hold downs, if your bench is level the hold downs keep the wood flat, level and inplace.

I found that a bit easier, more reliable and less damaging to the wood.

I guess we all have to find our own way or the way that works best for them.

No matter, just keep on building, keep on posting!

John
 
SkyHog said:
So, I've studied the plans intently, and decided to finally get going and start building.

I started by snapping a chalk line across my wood table for a reference for the top longeron (just learned how to say that word correctly!). I then put screws down to hold the longeron in place. I then learned that screws are a bad idea, so I pulled them and put nails down instead.

I carefully measured the length of the cross beams and marked those on the table. I placed the nails across the bottom so that I'd have a jig for the bottom longeron.

Then the fun part. I took the bottom piece and drenched it with the hose for a good 10 minutes (I have no pool, so I hoped it'd work). After it was good and drenched, I fit the bottom longeron around the nails and left it to sit and dry. Unfortunately, I can't do anymore until it is completely dried. I needed a break anyways!

here's some pics!
1) The first attempt at jigging with screws...oops.
2) A close up of the screw jigs
3) The wood is bent and put into place
4) And the new, nail jigs
Click to expand...


Nick, you should make a "steam box" for bending wood. Get a length of hot water PVC large enough to put the largest piece of wood that you need to bend in. You make a couple of cross horses so it tilts up at about 20* from end to end. You put a cap on the top end that has an opening in the lower 1/4 and a cap on the lower end that will accept your steam source. For small projects a tea kettle with a hose is good enough, larger projects I rig a pressure cooker. Inside the pipe itself, you want to place a few little pieces so the wood doesn't sit full length on the pvc.
 
Henning said:
Nick, you should make a "steam box" for bending wood. Get a length of hot water PVC large enough to put the largest piece of wood that you need to bend in. You make a couple of cross horses so it tilts up at about 20* from end to end. You put a cap on the top end that has an opening in the lower 1/4 and a cap on the lower end that will accept your steam source. For small projects a tea kettle with a hose is good enough, larger projects I rig a pressure cooker. Inside the pipe itself, you want to place a few little pieces so the wood doesn't sit full length on the pvc.
Click to expand...

That's a good idea!! Sounds simple, too. I like.
 
steam has a lot more energy in it than hot water. think about when you've been burned by hot water, then think about getting burned by steam. ouch.

love the avatar, btw
 
Henning said:
Nick, you should make a "steam box" for bending wood. Get a length of hot water PVC large enough to put the largest piece of wood that you need to bend in. You make a couple of cross horses so it tilts up at about 20* from end to end. You put a cap on the top end that has an opening in the lower 1/4 and a cap on the lower end that will accept your steam source. For small projects a tea kettle with a hose is good enough, larger projects I rig a pressure cooker. Inside the pipe itself, you want to place a few little pieces so the wood doesn't sit full length on the pvc.
Click to expand...
And as an added bone-us when you're done bending wood, you can easily convert it to a still. :goofy:
 
SkyHog said:
The plans specifically said nails. Dunno why. lol. Is steam a better way to bend wood?
Click to expand...

Ship builders have been using it for thousands of years.... You can form very nice curves with less intercellular damage and fracturing, and it soaks in much quicker than water.
 
Henning is indeed correct, steam is the way to bend wood.

I too like the Avatar Nick!
 
CapeCodJay said:
Missing the Dr. Pepper cans
Click to expand...
Can you blame them for pulling out? Look at how he markets his other sponsors: the coffe cup logo is half turned away from the camera; the Stanley tape measure logo is hidden and probably upside down anyway; and the pack of Camels is upside down.

Nick is learning about lofting. I still am having a hard time erasing the mental image of Nick jigging with the screws.
 
So why are screws a bad idea? Is it that the threads can damage the wood?
 
Ah, makes sense. Well, like someone else said, I've only seen jigs done using blocks of wood. I've never done jig work myself, but it seems to me like wood blocks for jigs would be less likely to dent the wood. If you're bending wood in this jig, and you're using nails and steamed, pliable wood, then wont the nail surfaces put little dents in it? Will that matter?
 
Here's my steam "gutter" for bending about 24" of 5/8" half-round for a rudder bow. It's set on a portable gas stove. I boiled the wood till it was al dente, and it bent around the curve very nicely.
 

Attachments

  • P1000433.JPG
    P1000433.JPG
    2.3 MB · Views: 59
Henning said:
Nick, you should make a "steam box" for bending wood. Get a length of hot water PVC large enough to put the largest piece of wood that you need to bend in. You make a couple of cross horses so it tilts up at about 20* from end to end. You put a cap on the top end that has an opening in the lower 1/4 and a cap on the lower end that will accept your steam source. For small projects a tea kettle with a hose is good enough, larger projects I rig a pressure cooker. Inside the pipe itself, you want to place a few little pieces so the wood doesn't sit full length on the pvc.
Click to expand...

I use a similar set up for wood plank when I model ship build in the winter. You have to bend a lot of wood and it makes life better than just trying to strong arm it around. I found that out the hard way and it took a fair amount of wood putty to fix the problems I created by doing that.

The pics are of the boat I am currently trying to build. Planking is done in two layers just like it would be done on the actually vessel. The under planks are think pine and the over planks are a thinner mohangany.
 
Last edited:
smigaldi said:
I use a similar set up for wood plank when I model ship build in the winter. You have to bend a lot of wood and it makes life better than just trying to strong arm it around. I found that out the hard way and it took a fair amount of wood putty to fix the problems I created by doing that.

The pics are of the boat I am currently trying to build. Planking is done in two layers just like it would be done on the actually vessel. The under planks are think pine and the over planks are a thinner mohangany.
Click to expand...

Very impressive build up there Scott.
 
kevin47881 said:
Very impressive build up there Scott.
Click to expand...

I wish I could take credit for that one but those are the pics form the company that made the model. Mine is not quite that far along yet. My last one, which is an America's cup yacht came out pretty good though! I don't have any pics of my boat yet.
 
Skip Miller said:
Scott, my fingers are too big to do that!!!

-Skip
Click to expand...

Skip Miller said:
Scott, my fingers are too big to do that!!!

-Skip
Click to expand...


Easy fix for that......

SCALE - UP!:D :yes:

I built a 28 ft cabin cruiser, back in the early 80's.
Based in part on the New England Lobster Boats.

Hand Riveted Lapstrake Planking (Many pics but no scanner...)
1 inch thick Cypress planking, on Red Oak frames.
Copper Rivets were 4 inches apart.
Better than 3000 rivets were inserted.
Deck was Varnished, Western Red Cedar, with black rubber seam caulking.
Gunwales are Varnished African Mahogany,
All other surfaces, painted "Polar Ice White".

Must have done a good job riveting, because one weekend, during a hurricane, the tarp covering her, got destroyed, and when it was all over, the boat had become a water tank! Holding eighty six, 5 gallon buckets of rain water. That's a whole lot of water!! Took me better than three hours to bail her out, and not a leak in the planking! (They're built to keep water OUT... not hold it in.)


Pics are:
1) Elevation drawing "Extremely close to my design"
2) This gives an broad idea of the topside look, Had same railing (it's not my boat tho...)
3) This is Lapstrake construction (...on a dinghy)
4) This rowboat, shows the bent frames supporting the Lapstrake planking method.
 

Attachments

  • Elevation.jpg
    Elevation.jpg
    30.5 KB · Views: 12
  • Idea of__.gif
    Idea of__.gif
    162.7 KB · Views: 19
  • Lapstrake Dinghy.jpg
    Lapstrake Dinghy.jpg
    16.9 KB · Views: 13
  • Plank on bent frames.jpg
    Plank on bent frames.jpg
    75.3 KB · Views: 19
Chache, a man after my own heart. There is nothing half as worth doing as messing about in boats. Lapstrake and rivets...you da man!
 
RE: webcam frame of rightside of fuselage, timestamped, 2007-04-02, 00:58:56

Did the planes illustrate how to construct the joint between the perpendicular brace (blue writing pen on top of it) and the diagonal brace?

I see the gluing surface is all end grain against long grain. I think I would have "let in" the diag brace into the perpendicular to give more end grain to end grain.
 
Richard said:
RE: webcam frame of rightside of fuselage, timestamped, 2007-04-02, 00:58:56

Did the planes illustrate how to construct the joint between the perpendicular brace (blue writing pen on top of it) and the diagonal brace?

I see the gluing surface is all end grain against long grain. I think I would have "let in" the diag brace into the perpendicular to give more end grain to end grain.
Click to expand...


Should be OK, if he's using gussets....as they will take up any strain.
Letting in, tends to weaken the "let" piece, by reducing its cross section, instead of strengthening the joint
 
Chache said:
Should be OK, if he's using gussets....as they will take up any strain.
Letting in, tends to weaken the "let" piece, by reducing its cross section, instead of strengthening the joint
Click to expand...
I agree about the tendency to weaken, but consider the joint already is weak due to the mating of the gluing surfaces. There are a few other factors but you, as boatbuilder, know.

Are you saying gussets should allow for an otherwise weak joint?
 
SkyHog said:
What exactly is "letting in" anyways, I don't get that one.
Click to expand...
Briefly, letting in is to remove material from each piece to allow a change in the mating angle.

Look at the joint as shown. You have long (due to cut angle) end grain (diag brace) mated across a straight glue line to straight grain (perpendicular brace). The joint is in shear and IMO relies too much on glue strength.

Consider how you could change that glue line to allow for more end grain to end grain. You would have to lessen the angle of the cut line of the diag brace and remove some material fro the perpendiular. Keep in mind the glue line need not be a straight line. The subject is joinery. Keep in mind the more complex the joint, the more difficult and/or time consuming.

The reasons for so many different joints is for optimium design strength of the assembly and to allow the builder to take advantage of the strengths inherent in the material. End grain to straight grain across a straight glue line is a weak joint. While that is a true statement, perhaps it doesn't matter as much in light plane construction and that I'm overly concerned.
 
Richard said:
Briefly, letting in is to remove material from each piece to allow a change in the mating angle.

Look at the joint as shown. You have long (due to cut angle) end grain (diag brace) mated across a straight glue line to straight grain (perpendicular brace). The joint is in shear and IMO relies too much on glue strength.

Consider how you could change that glue line to allow for more end grain to end grain. You would have to lessen the angle of the cut line of the diag brace and remove some material fro the perpendiular. Keep in mind the glue line need not be a straight line. The subject is joinery. Keep in mind the more complex the joint, the more difficult and/or time consuming.

The reasons for so many different joints is for optimium design strength of the assembly and to allow the builder to take advantage of the strengths inherent in the material. End grain to straight grain across a straight glue line is a weak joint. While that is a true statement, perhaps it doesn't matter as much in light plane construction and that I'm overly concerned.
Click to expand...

You lost me at briefly....but it sounded good.
 
Richard said:
I agree about the tendency to weaken, but consider the joint already is weak due to the mating of the gluing surfaces. There are a few other factors but you, as boatbuilder, know.

Are you saying gussets should allow for an otherwise weak joint?
Click to expand...


Negative. the joint as he's made it is as strong as its type can get. it's the letting in that weakens not the joint, but the lumber that supports it.

Skyhog, see the attachedment

"A" , "B", are let in joints "C" is not.
 

Attachments

  • the _let.bmp
    852.5 KB · Views: 17
Last edited:
( IMHO) the strength of the glue joint with a gusset, is in this case stronger than the parent material.

Easy enough to test for accuracy...

Glue up a few test joints, one with a gusset, one without,
one let in, one let in, with a gusset.

Let the glue cure then try to pull the glue joint apart, holding the two ends.
gauge it with a scale if you want.

and if you care to know more.....further reading:

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Glue_Joint_Failure.html
 
Then the fun part. I took the bottom piece and drenched it with the hose for a good 10 minutes (I have no pool, so I hoped it'd work). After it was good and drenched, I fit the bottom longeron around the nails and left it to sit and dry. Unfortunately, I can't do anymore until it is completely dried. I needed a break anyways!

Hi Nick,
In the future if you don't want to go through the trouble of a steam box, you may want to buy a 2" tube of pvc, glue an end cap on one end and fill it with water. If you soak the wood over night it bends easily, but it also takes another night to dry. But it does beat the heck out of standing there with a hose.
lou
 
Loupark said:
Then the fun part. I took the bottom piece and drenched it with the hose for a good 10 minutes (I have no pool, so I hoped it'd work). After it was good and drenched, I fit the bottom longeron around the nails and left it to sit and dry. Unfortunately, I can't do anymore until it is completely dried. I needed a break anyways!

Hi Nick,
In the future if you don't want to go through the trouble of a steam box, you may want to buy a 2" tube of pvc, glue an end cap on one end and fill it with water. If you soak the wood over night it bends easily, but it also takes another night to dry. But it does beat the heck out of standing there with a hose.
lou
Click to expand...
I think Nick has decided that metal is more to his liking.
 
Nick, you were building from plans, right? Ain't no reason you can't start over again! :)
 
If I recall correctly, Nick was building firewood... :smilewinkgrin:
 
Nick, Nick, Nick,
Say it ain't so, you didn't give up after just
1.7 hours.
Lou
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top