fine...the results

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saracelica

saracelica

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saracelica
Not sure how many people on here are interested but I failed the checkride today.

Passed the oral portion "above averagely" which was what I was worried about the most.

When it came to flying I just sucked. I put so much emphasis on passing the oral I FUBAR'd the flying part. DAMN!

The worst part is that an IFR pilot wasn't even sure he wanted to go flying and I mentioned it to the DPE and he said we'd be in the pattern to start with anyway so we'd be close if we had to land. It was really gusty!

For all those student pilots out there - the trim wheel is your friend. Learn to use it early and often it'll help alot.

No sympathy notes or "apologies" needed. Just wanted to let y'all know the deal-io.
 
So, what did you mess up on?
 
saracelica said:
Not sure how many people on here are interested but I failed the checkride today.

Passed the oral portion "above averagely" which was what I was worried about the most.

When it came to flying I just sucked. I put so much emphasis on passing the oral I FUBAR'd the flying part. DAMN!

The worst part is that an IFR pilot wasn't even sure he wanted to go flying and I mentioned it to the DPE and he said we'd be in the pattern to start with anyway so we'd be close if we had to land. It was really gusty!

For all those student pilots out there - the trim wheel is your friend. Learn to use it early and often it'll help alot.

No sympathy notes or "apologies" needed. Just wanted to let y'all know the deal-io.
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Which tasks did you fail on? Do you have it established with the DPE to retest on those portions, or will you have to redo the entire checkride?
 
I read an article recently....AOPA Training maybe...... that YOU can make the decision when to call it quits. Before its a fail. Just out of curiosity, if you werent going for your checkride, would you have gone up? And I ask this because i would like to know for myself if I would need to impose MY personal minimums for the checkride. You will get it next time!!!
 
I busted my private ride (failed the engine failure) and passed on the retest. Just relax and you'll do fine.
 
Thanks everyone. Evidentally if I used the trim "more" I would've succeded I know HOW to do the maneuvers and stuff but the altitude and speed got me. Will learn how to trim for the next ride. I have 60 days from today to complete the ones I failed. If I were trimmed properly I would've passed them all. The important stuff (emergency decents and the stuff I passed I did do stellar on - IMHO) I was so nervous about spewing the oral portion I let the flight portion just sort of take care of itself. I have over 150 hours in the plane so I thought I could "wing" it (pardon the pun) The DPE is friends with another instructor in my club (who owes him a favor) and is supposedly the best at teaching "trim techniques". In my own defense there was NO horizon to line up the airplane with to trim it in the first place.... But it was a good experience to go through. I never knew I failed each maneuver until the end and parked. (which I thought they were suppose to tell you but I think he figured it was established I'd want to continue anyway)

You can try to impose your own minimums on the DPE but he may sway you to go anyway. Mine did. The wx wasn't a real factor - sort of want it bumpy and windy, so that when you FUBAR it you can blame the weather. Mine said we'd stay close to the field and watch the weather. My DPE has like 15k hours and is an ATP in all types and classes so I went with his experience (even though he said he's just a passenger - his hours would kick in if need be)

I did ask him to hold the controls while flying (so I could have something to drink) and he said "Nope, not here...I'm just a passenger"

Learn from my mistakes people. If you don't know how to trim the airplane for the speed and altitude you want practice on your next couple lessons! I promise it'll help.
 
saracelica said:
Learn from my mistakes people. If you don't know how to trim the airplane for the speed and altitude you want practice on your next couple lessons! I promise it'll help.
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Trim is your friend. Your CFI should have told you that but since he or she didn't, now you know. You definitely aren't the first person to have failed a checkride either so don't let it bother you too much. It was a learning experience... as they always say.
 
It's been a very expensive learning experience. <sigh> 60 days go by quick. Hopefully I become a fast learner. :)
 
Trim is for lazy people. I admit to being the laziest person alive.
I hate fighting that yoke/watching that ball off-center! Really, its not supposed to be hard work or make you physically tired.
 
saracelica said:
It's been a very expensive learning experience. <sigh> 60 days go by quick. Hopefully I become a fast learner. :)
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Look yourself in the mirror tonight and say.. "I can do this"... Practice some more, especially the trim part and reschedule the check ride... You will pass it the next time ma'am.... Also,,,, when you are trimmed properly for the landing if nothing radically changes to the W&B, the next takeoff will seem like you have power steering...

You can do it Sara,,, even though you are a 'girl' ;):):lol:

Your biggest cheerleader.
Ben.
 
I thought the examiner was supposed to tell you at the time of the failed maneuver that it was a failure?
 
I think technically he was. But before the flight we talked about it and I said I would continue even if I failed a portion. Not like I could've done anything about it at the time. Live and learn.
 
Hi Sara, I pink slipped my first ride too.... then passed.

What plane do you fly? If it's a 152 they have very touch trims - a little goes a long way.

We're behing you all the way!
 
Similar thing happened to me... the DE was crafty; right after takeoff he had me go where I had rarely flown before, threading SW between the NYC Bravo and the surrounding Delta airspaces. Got lost, amazingly (but didn't bust an airspace, even more amazingly). I also had trouble remembering the typical altitude (AGL) for ground-ref maneuvers, again because we were not near where I usually practiced, so everything looked "wrong".
It was all just nerves, in the end... he let me finish everything else, we flew again to cover the nav and ground-ref stuff again, and I did fine.
 
Cessna 172SP is what I fly. Awaiting to find out if an instructor can show me how to trim appropriately. Glad to have had the opportunity to see what it was like. Glad the Oral portion is out of the way for sure! :)

The other part is that the line guy at the airport is a CFI want to be (his instructor wouldn't sign him off for the 'ride and so he's bitter.) was like "how did you do?" Trying to sound caring but sounding more nosy to me. Eck. Hope to enjoy the rest of my weekend and think about flying again on Tuesday.
 
If I pick up the phone right now and call the CFI who signed your recommendation for the ride, what will his/her answer be to my question "Why did you send her for the ride if she didn't know how to trim the effing airplane?"
 
It's quite possible that you failed due to poor ADM. You let a "passenger" talk you into making a bad decision. This time it only costs you $400 when it has cost others their lives.
 
Upsetting but you are not the first. Go up and practice with your CFI.
then back in for the test. you could be done by middle of the week.
I misread a wind sock at a little airport. two days later I had my ticket.

this is not a crisis.
 
Jaybird180 said:
It's quite possible that you failed due to poor ADM. You let a "passenger" talk you into making a bad decision. This time it only costs you $400 when it has cost others their lives.
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I doubt this was it. If it had been, the examiner would have told her so, or should have anyway.
 
What manuevar were you told to do that requires trim? I only ask because in the 152 I use, I rarely use trim....
 
Jaybird180 said:
It's quite possible that you failed due to poor ADM. You let a "passenger" talk you into making a bad decision. This time it only costs you $400 when it has cost others their lives.
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I doubt that to be the case, unless the examiner said so. But something to keep in mind - letting passengers pressure you into flying is a bad idea.

gcd89 said:
What manuevar were you told to do that requires trim? I only ask because in the 152 I use, I rarely use trim....
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Sounds to me like altitudes were probably all over the place, and trim was the recommended means of fixing that.
 
My meaningless 2 cents:

You are PIC on that ride, and if YOU thought the conditions were not within your comfort level, whatever the reason may be, you have every right to cancel the ride.

Probably, one thing that got you was this:

"I did ask him to hold the controls while flying (so I could have something to drink) and he said "Nope, not here...I'm just a passenger" "

The DPE cannot take the controls from you, and if he/she had to take the controls, the ride would be over at that point in time. If you have a non-flying friend along in the plane, would you ask that person to take over the controls for you?

Has your instructor debriefed the flight with the DPE as to exactly what areas you need to work on? Thats an important part of what the CFI should be doing for you.

Take a breath, talk this over with your instructor, get some more time in the plane don't beat yourself up and just get back on the horse, as everyone has said here, and you'll do fine!
 
So many questions in there. I appreciate everyones support.

I would let a non pilot hold the controls if we were somewhat level...the way I did it I held the yoke with my knee and lost about 100 ft in the process....

My CFI was against me doing the 'ride. He knew/thought I should work on the trim more. But I begged him for a chance and he gave it to me. With that I got confidence that I can pass the oral and 1/2 of the flight. All I need is someone to teach me how to trim the plane out. It was a crappy wx day (no horizon - which was the latest way I learned to trim the plane) and bumpy and my landings sucked. I should've stopped at that point but the DPE already had my $350 so I figured I had nothing to lose.

The CFI who signed me off won't be giving me the extra training. He was way to annoying and couldn't take my learning curve...after a while he said "No let me show you" I'm a little slow ant hand/eye coordination (Husband says I'm getting better) Ugh. Going to talk to the president of the club (one of my friends and a CFI and see what he suggests - I've been told the Safety guy is good at teaching trim as well)

So as I've said before - any students reading this if you don't know how to trim talk to your CFI and see if it's important to them.
 
You already know how to trim out the airplane. That's done early on. It relieves the pressure on the yolk. Set the attitude of the plane and roll the trim until the plane holds that attitude without undo back pressure. You can do this during any portion of the flight but isn't necessary as long as you can hold the altitude/attitude you need to.
I set the trim (of the plane I fly the most) when I preflight the cockpit for takeoff; about a ninety knot climb.
Remember the DE is your first passenger as a pilot. He's more deadweight than you instructor ever was except for the fact that he's got the scorecard in his lap. Mine was an 85 year old ex military pilot with 20,000+ hours. My test started with no airspeed on the takeoff roll. I think he put a sock over the pitot tube. After aborting the roll and taxiing back, HE jumped out, cleared the problem, and we were off again.
They're sneaky little devils. Mine was out to pass me but some aren't so nice. Get a little practice with your instructor and get rescheduled. You'll do fine. Remember, YOUR INSTRUCTOR would not have signed you off for the checkride if he didn't believe in you.
 
saracelica said:
I would let a non pilot hold the controls if we were somewhat level...
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So would I but....

saracelica said:
the way I did it I held the yoke with my knee and lost about 100 ft in the process....
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... if the airplane was trimmed correctly that would probably work better than an non-pilot. :D

I'm teasing you but it is true. You should be able to trim the airplane well enough so that it will not immediately start to change pitch attitude the second you let go of it, assuming you leave the throttle alone. Like John said, above, set the attitude you want, then trim until you don't feel pressure either way. I think some new pilots don't trim as much as they should because it seems like another thing thing to do, and a bother, since most people are strong enough to overcome the out of trim forces in a trainer for long periods of time. However, any bit of inattention will cause a deviation from the attitude you want and will make your flying less accurate.

saracelica said:
My CFI was against me doing the 'ride. He knew/thought I should work on the trim more. But I begged him for a chance and he gave it to me. With that I got confidence that I can pass the oral and 1/2 of the flight. All I need is someone to teach me how to trim the plane out. It was a crappy wx day (no horizon - which was the latest way I learned to trim the plane) and bumpy and my landings sucked. I should've stopped at that point but the DPE already had my $350 so I figured I had nothing to lose.

The CFI who signed me off won't be giving me the extra training. He was way to annoying and couldn't take my learning curve...after a while he said "No let me show you" I'm a little slow ant hand/eye coordination (Husband says I'm getting better) Ugh. Going to talk to the president of the club (one of my friends and a CFI and see what he suggests - I've been told the Safety guy is good at teaching trim as well)
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I think that you are right in wanting another CFI. From what you write it doesn't seem as if the you and the one you have currently are on the same page...
 
I'm curious what you'll learn about trimming.

I have two rules, which I think I'd picked up (if not internalized) before 1st solo.

1) Trim every time you have stabilized the controls... don't lead with the trim, don't trim during changes, but once you are in a steady state, trim. Every time means when you are climbing on takeoff, once you reach TPA, after pulling power abeam the numbers, after each flap change, on final... and of course away from the pattern too.

2) Zero isn't always right. E.g . on final a little pressure helps feel. Zeroing for Vx when you'll transition to Vy once you clear 50 feet doesn't make sense.

Bummer about the ride.
 
saracelica said:
I would let a non pilot hold the controls if we were somewhat level...the way I did it I held the yoke with my knee and lost about 100 ft in the process....
Click to expand...

Ok, How do you hold the yoke? I'm guessing that you have a pretty good grip on it to hold backpressure as you fly? It's easy to get into that habit.

Open the window, stick your elbow out, relax, and just use your thumb and one finger. Period. That's all you need. If you are out of trim, your fingers will let you know quickly. The airplane should pretty much maintain altitude by itself.

FWIW - I ain't no instructor.

Oh, and I let non-pilots manipulate the controls all by themselves all the time ('cept for takeoff and landing).
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
FWIW - I ain't no instructor.
Click to expand...

But that's good advice on how to do it.

I have some clients with an A36 Bonanza. After they first got it, we did some flying to get them more comfortable with the plane. One of the pilots was overcontrolling significantly, using a lot of force with steep turns. I showed him that all you needed was your pinky and ring finger on that plane to do even commercial level steep turns. If it's trimmed out properly, almost all flying is low-effort.
 
saracelica said:
I did ask him to hold the controls while flying (so I could have something to drink) and he said "Nope, not here...I'm just a passenger".
Click to expand...
Actually, in my humble opinion, it's good that you had a good sense to drink. I know that if I get dehydrated, my performance suffers insiduously and I end with a monstrous headache, albeit later. And the last landing is at the very end of checkride and has to be done perfectly, so it's a bad time to fight dehydration. I pre-positioned my bag where I can grab the bottle, although I did not have the sense to take one of those bicyclist bottles that you open with your teeth. I simply unscrewed it the same way I do it in a car, holding the yoke with one hand. I caught a time when we tooled from the designated maneuvering zone to a satellite airport for langings. Good thing he didn't decide it were a perfect time to fail engine. If I were doing the second time, I would take a bicycle bottle.
 
zaitcev said:
Actually, in my humble opinion, it's good that you had a good sense to drink. I know that if I get dehydrated, my performance suffers insiduously and I end with a monstrous headache, albeit later. And the last landing is at the very end of checkride and has to be done perfectly, so it's a bad time to fight dehydration. I pre-positioned my bag where I can grab the bottle, although I did not have the sense to take one of those bicyclist bottles that you open with your teeth. I simply unscrewed it the same way I do it in a car, holding the yoke with one hand. I caught a time when we tooled from the designated maneuvering zone to a satellite airport for langings. Good thing he didn't decide it were a perfect time to fail engine. If I were doing the second time, I would take a bicycle bottle.
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I do agree in principle. I eat sandwiches while flying as well. Food and hydration are important while flying, especially on trips.

However, doing so on a checkride I think is typically in bad form. If you're actually flying, do the same maneuver, and lose 100 ft or get off 10 degrees on your heading, it really won't matter most of the time. Obviously, you wouldn't want to do that while shooting an ILS to minimums or while landing. Consider that the whole checkride is like that maneuver. The DPE is supposed to hold you to the PTS based on what he or she observes. I would not eat or drink on a checkride. If it was a concern, I'd have some water before getting in the plane.
 
mikeinbama said:
I read an article recently....AOPA Training maybe...... that YOU can make the decision when to call it quits. Before its a fail. Just out of curiosity, if you werent going for your checkride, would you have gone up? And I ask this because i would like to know for myself if I would need to impose MY personal minimums for the checkride. You will get it next time!!!
Click to expand...


You are expected to do that as PART of the checkride.... One of the things being evaluated is your "go-no go" decision making skills.
 
saracelica said:
Cessna 172SP is what I fly. Awaiting to find out if an instructor can show me how to trim appropriately. Glad to have had the opportunity to see what it was like. Glad the Oral portion is out of the way for sure! :)

The other part is that the line guy at the airport is a CFI want to be (his instructor wouldn't sign him off for the 'ride and so he's bitter.) was like "how did you do?" Trying to sound caring but sounding more nosy to me. Eck. Hope to enjoy the rest of my weekend and think about flying again on Tuesday.
Click to expand...


I'm guessing your trim problem was on Steep turns for the most part. Roll briskly into the turn and pull, give the trim wheel two flicks down and then put in the throttle. Start reversing the process about 25* before your heading.

BTW, why 60 days before the retest?
 
That, "Well, we'll just be staying in the pattern" may have been a decision-making test in disguise.

Remember, passengers will say similar things when they want to go now.

A DE is a strange duck. They're 100% passenger but they'll say things like that and sometimes they're saying it as a senior pilot saying, "Yes this is do-able today" and sometimes as a passenger simulator.

Never trust your feelings, ask. Find put for sure in what capacity they're speaking. If nothing else, it shows that you understand that you are 100% PIC during the ride, and that the go/no-go is your call, not theirs.

As far as the trim goes, go work on it. You'll get there. I swear in the pattern with our high glareshield I spend half the time looking like a prairie dog reaching for the trim wheel down near the floor and then quickly popping back up to keep my eyeballs outside. Fuel selector valve is worse.

The thumb and first finger exercise works. If you can't fly the airplane with two fingers the airplane's probably not trimmed yet.

If you don't trim a 182, you'll be sore by the end of an hour flight from pushing and pulling. The airplane will wear you out.
 
denverpilot said:
If you don't trim a 182, you'll be sore by the end of an hour flight from pushing and pulling. The airplane will wear you out.
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I wouldn't want to force extra material on you before the retest, but maybe go get a lesson in a 182 for your lesson on trim.

You'll really understand the need for trim after a flight in a 182. As Nate said, if you don't trim in a 182, you will be sore.
 
Henning said:
BTW, why 60 days before the retest?
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I have 60 days to pass the parts I missed. After that I have to do it ALL over again. (That I'd have to stop and think about doing again...the oral was a PITA)
 
saracelica said:
I have 60 days to pass the parts I missed. After that I have to do it ALL over again. (That I'd have to stop and think about doing again...the oral was a PITA)
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Yeah, but you can retest tomorrow if this is your first fail, no need to wait 60 days which is the impression I got of what you were going to do.
 
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