Financing Options??

Speaking from experience with Tony, he'll fly the living snot out of it. And that's a LOT!. ;)

Well then it may make more long term financial sense for him. Personally, I wouldn't do it, but it's his money, and while the debt incurred carries risk I personally would never voluntarily take on again, mathematically there is certainly a case to be made considering the very high cost of private piloting.

My only other thought would then be that Tony should be otherwise *out* of debt before committing to this.
 
gotcha, im pretty sure that for the flying i want to do, it makes sense to get my own airplane. ill do the flying either way, but if i rent from the club ill pay a bunch more in rental and daily fees, which will make saving for my own airplane a challenge. plus after a few years of my own airplane, ill have an airplane. after a few years of renting, i wont. and theres a personal value to that that is hard to quantify.

Exactly right on the personal value aspect. It's a great time for you to own - you're young, no kids or house or anything to anchor you down. I make a great enabler, huh? :D


Trapper John
 
My only other thought would then be that Tony should be otherwise *out* of debt before committing to this.

yessir! remember my school loan last semester? paid it off with my work moving bonus.
 
Exactly right on the personal value aspect. It's a great time for you to own - you're young, no kids or house or anything to anchor you down. I make a great enabler, huh? :D


Trapper John

haha john, i didnt need anymore help...
 
Tony--let me know if you figure out a way--I'm basically in the same boat as you..At this point thinking about a 150 at about the same price. Our incomes are probably comparable.

I wish my credit score were better--but it seems as though to get a good credit score--you must master putting yourself in debt just short of bankruptcy without actually going bankrupt. Makes a lot of sense.
 
and theres a personal value to that that is hard to quantify.
That's what it's all about, right? There's nothing wrong with that. It's a lifestyle choice rather than a business decision. I doubt that many private aircraft owners can justify their purchase if they only look at the numbers, whether they finance the airplane or not. People need to set their own priorities and realize that other people may have different ones.
 
I wish my credit score were better--but it seems as though to get a good credit score--you must master putting yourself in debt just short of bankruptcy without actually going bankrupt.
There is a reason the FICO score is also called the "I Love Debt" score.

If you look at how the FICO is calculated, you'll note that at no point is your actual income factored in.
http://www.myfico.com/Downloads/Files/myFICO_UYFS_Booklet.pdf
 
mari-yea basically. i like having something to show for my money...
 
Also, for the record, I'm done with this thread. No point in arguing with brick walls, but I did want to at least put my point out there for the non-walls who were interested.

Sorry you took it that way. I wasn't trying to suggest anything for or against borrowing money. Only that it is worth while to calculate the difference between saving and borrowing. And also suggesting that if one can afford the cost of owning an airplane, saving for it might not take that long.

There are some very good things to borrow money for, generally these are things that do not depreciate. Student loans and home loans (despite the present economy) are good reasons to borrow. It can make good sense to borrow money for used aircraft in that they typically don't depreciate. My 1974 glider has probably actually increased in value by about 30% from when I bought it 10 years ago.

I am sure that Tony has been spoiled by his glider, as they can be ridiculously inexpensive to own. My entire average annual soaring budget it less than the average cost of the annual inspection on our Bellanca Scout Tow plane.

Brian
 
my cherokee II has certainly been cheap to own, but im not blind to the costs of light aircraft ownership. ive spent enough time at my old FBO in the shop and around friends who own the same types to know what it will cost me.
 
Who was it above...Dave S...who suggested a longer term amortized loan with a payment you can easily afford considering other expenses that you have (including fixed and variable flying costs.) And then have the discipline to prepay each month when you can. You will still be in the losing money column vs. saving then paying cash, but far less so. Here's a handy calculator for debt prepayment. I'd use something around 7.5% as a starting point. It only will calculate loans up to a 120 month term, but you get the idea.

Saving first is a great idea in a perfect world, and should always be one's first choice (outside of business.) But if you can only afford an airplane financed over 8 or so years, then how many years must you save to pay cash? :nono: In your twenties? Right out of school? What to do, what to do?

Private ownership of an airplane will never make sense when you try to analyze the situation. Once you go over that cliff of idiocy you should simply try to exercise some wisdom and judgment about your decisions as best you can.

You should also be aware of other disadvantages of financing: mandatory hull insurance coverage, mandatory airworthiness. I'm not sure that having full hull insurance on a 60-year-old airplane worth only $20k makes a whole lotta sense but you will be stuck with it regardless. Wholly owning your airplane gives you some flexibility in this area. A partnership sure helps, especially when the big bill comes due. Makes financing more complicated.

Investment in a Cessna 140 in the current market is a wise one IMO. The class graduating ahead of you were buying Avalanches on 100% financing and putting the dealer fees on their Mastercards.

Anyway that's my rambling thoughts. I financed my airplane when I needed to, and exercised what I hope were wise money choices when I could afford to not to have to finance it any longer.
 
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Buy Buy Buy
Tony from what I have read about your experince your insurance should be quite cheap!

Remember Nose wheel will be cheaper to insure.

Also I belive buying an airplane is a long term investment, similar to a house. Which some people are losing on now because they did not by smart.

The market will go up and down but you will never really lose your rear as long as you buy smart and take care of it. This makes much more since than a New Car which is the worst investment there is.

There is nothing like having you own and knowing what you have when you take the runway.

Keep looking and you will find someone to finance.

Good luck Now is the time to buy.
 
Don't forget the options of the owner carrying personal paper, forgetting the banks, it makes things so much quicker & simpler. 140s & 150s have been around forever, proven safety, don't cost much and insurance is redily available.
 
Buy Buy Buy

Remember Nose wheel will be cheaper to insure.

And much more boring to fly. Just buy a boat.


Keep looking and you will find someone to finance.

Good luck Now is the time to buy.

Now is a better time than last year. Whether it's a good time is yet to be seen.
 
Go for it Tony. Call the Bank of Bolivar and see what you can work out.
 
Well rats, the bank in Bolivar just got word from their regulators, and no longer can loan for airplanes outside of MO.
 
Well rats, the bank in Bolivar just got word from their regulators, and no longer can loan for airplanes outside of MO.


Well, that stinks. Aren't there some aircraft lenders in Oklahoma? I want to say Bank of Pryor, or something like that...they advertise(d) in TAP...


Trapper John
 
i got ahold of Red River State Bank up in MN. They are airloan.com Very nice folks, the loan officer I talked to was a J3 pilot. I was very encouraged. Submitted an app and got denied due to lack of credit history, whatever that means.
 
i got ahold of Red River State Bank up in MN. They are airloan.com Very nice folks, the loan officer I talked to was a J3 pilot. I was very encouraged. Submitted an app and got denied due to lack of credit history, whatever that means.

That's actually good. It means you haven't been assimilated yet.

You'd have to get a credit card of some kind and build a payment history. Try your credit union.

DO NOT get a subsidy card where you pay up front and only have access to your own money. I don't know that those even report your credit but I know they're a rip-off on fees.

You're going to need a bit of employment history, too.

You must have patience, grasshopper.

While you're waiting put the money into savings and see if you can pay cash.
 
i got ahold of Red River State Bank up in MN. They are airloan.com Very nice folks, the loan officer I talked to was a J3 pilot. I was very encouraged. Submitted an app and got denied due to lack of credit history, whatever that means.

It means you're new to this borrowing money game, and need to get your dad to co-sign your first loan, after which you will have credit history and (assuming you tend your bills well, ensuring that the credit history you create is favorable), you'll have no trouble next time.
 
It means you're new to this borrowing money game, and need to get your dad to co-sign your first loan, after which you will have credit history and (assuming you tend your bills well, ensuring that the credit history you create is favorable), you'll have no trouble next time.

Ive had a credit card or two since I was 16, never carrying a balance. Last semester (much to people heres discomfort) I took out a loan to pay for school and, at the time, recovering on my glider. never recovered the glider. It was a 3 year loan, I paid it off in 8 months. My credit score is above 750. My credit union will give me 20K on a credit card if I want it, but a bank won't give me a little more for something that they can actually sell and get their money back on if I default? doesnt make sense to me...
 
Ive had a credit card or two since I was 16, never carrying a balance. Last semester (much to people heres discomfort) I took out a loan to pay for school and, at the time, recovering on my glider. never recovered the glider. It was a 3 year loan, I paid it off in 8 months. My credit score is above 750. My credit union will give me 20K on a credit card if I want it, but a bank won't give me a little more for something that they can actually sell and get their money back on if I default? doesnt make sense to me...

Maybe you haven't had a balance recently?

The bank has to send you denial letter and the name of the credit bureau. It will inform you how you can request a free credit report from them. See what it says.
 
Maybe you haven't had a balance recently?

The bank has to send you denial letter and the name of the credit bureau. It will inform you how you can request a free credit report from them. See what it says.

misread you the first time. I've had significant balances recently. Very rarely do I have less than 100 a month. Last month was over 1000 thanks to moving to Wichita and buying a diamond ring. I would guess average balance a month is around 3-500.
 
The Bank said:
With the failing economy we have been forced to tighten up on our lending guidelines. When we look at a credit bureau we are not only looking at the credit score, we are also looking for long term proven pay history (ex: vehicle or RV loans, Real Estate Mortgage etc.) I hope this helps you,

crazy.
 
misread you the first time. I've had significant balances recently. Very rarely do I have less than 100 a month. Last month was over 1000 thanks to moving to Wichita and buying a diamond ring. I would guess average balance a month is around 3-500.

Well "Professor" Dave Ramsey and I say you're doing great. How did you get so smart anyway?

I wish I was doing so well.
 
Well "Professor" Dave Ramsey and I say you're doing great. How did you get so smart anyway?

I wish I was doing so well.

i'd be doing a lot better if I had an airplane in a hangar.
 
I'll co-sign a loan if it will help
 
I'll co-sign a loan if it will help

You might want to read the Paul McCready story on developing the Gossamer Condor human powered airplane. I forget the name of the book I read on it.

Short version is his motiviation for developing this aircraft was the amount of the Kremer prize was exactly what he owned on a loan he had co-signed for and had gone into default.

Brian
 
You might want to read the Paul McCready story on developing the Gossamer Condor human powered airplane. I forget the name of the book I read on it.

Short version is his motiviation for developing this aircraft was the amount of the Kremer prize was exactly what he owned on a loan he had co-signed for and had gone into default.

Brian


necessity truly is the mother of invention.
 
You might want to read the Paul McCready story on developing the Gossamer Condor human powered airplane. I forget the name of the book I read on it.

Short version is his motiviation for developing this aircraft was the amount of the Kremer prize was exactly what he owned on a loan he had co-signed for and had gone into default.

Brian


If you are suggesting that I might end up in a default situation and regret co-signing you don't know Tony very well.
 
Tony,
Have you checked with any of your home town banks? Maybe one your family has been using for along time. There are so many options, you just have to find the one that works for you and the bank.
 
If you are suggesting that I might end up in a default situation and regret co-signing you don't know Tony very well.

I have never met Tony. Perhaps we can change that in the future. I was not suggesting anything about Tony. I was really pointing out just what Tony noted, that co-signing a loan is what brought about the Gossamer Condor.

Brian
 
Tony,
Have you checked with any of your home town banks? Maybe one your family has been using for along time. There are so many options, you just have to find the one that works for you and the bank.

I called my hometown bank two weeks ago. They have financed my dads business through two new buildings as well as him building a new house, buying some various rental properties and always having at least one car payment. I went to school with the President and Vice President's sons. Last I heard the President had my request and the loan officer was waiting to hear back from him.
 
I called my hometown bank two weeks ago. They have financed my dads business through two new buildings as well as him building a new house, buying some various rental properties and always having at least one car payment. I went to school with the President and Vice President's sons. Last I heard the President had my request and the loan officer was waiting to hear back from him.

Banks unfamiliar with how it works might be skittish with financing an airplane, but they should just write you an unsecured signature loan! It ain't that much money.
 
I called my hometown bank two weeks ago. They have financed my dads business through two new buildings as well as him building a new house, buying some various rental properties and always having at least one car payment. I went to school with the President and Vice President's sons. Last I heard the President had my request and the loan officer was waiting to hear back from him.

That does sound encouraging. Good luck!
 
Banks unfamiliar with how it works might be skittish with financing an airplane, but they should just write you an unsecured signature loan! It ain't that much money.

i might ask them about that again, at first they said they didnt do unsecured loans for that much, but i dont think i need that much anymore
 
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