Finally restarted my flying lessons.

I had the pre-solo check ride Friday. It was a great learning experience, and I need to learn more before I'm ready to solo. My basic airmanship skills seem to be OK, but I need to work on situational awareness: having the big picture of traffic near me, and airspace awareness. Also, consistently using checklists.

I was supposed to have a lesson tomorrow, but the plane I had reserved is in Montana and won't be back until tomorrow night. I'm leaving on a 10-day vacation, Tuesday. and the runway is closed for repaving for a week so the earliest I can fly would be the 31st. (Edited to change the date.)
 
Last edited:
I had the pre-solo check ride Friday. It was a great learning experience, and I need to learn more before I'm ready to solo. My basic airmanship skills seem to be OK, but I need to work on situational awareness: having the big picture of traffic near me, and airspace awareness. Also, consistently using checklists.

I was supposed to have a lesson tomorrow, but the plane I had reserved is in Montana and won't be back until tomorrow night. I'm leaving on a 10-day vacation, Tuesday. and the runway is closed for repaving for a week so the earliest I can fly would be the 31st. (Edited to change the date.)

I had my first lesson in more than a month yesterday. The weather was severe clear and light winds. I had a new (to me) instructor. I did a power off stall, a power on stall, 6 touch and goes and one landing to a full stop, with almost zero input from my instructor.

Funny thing, on my first landing, I had the plane in the flare for what seemed like forever, which is what they've been trying to get me to do forever.

I bounced one landing because I didn't start my roundout soon enough, but much better, AFAIC, than too high.

I'm starting to make noises about doing a leaseback at Vector Air. I have the contact information of the person to talk to about it. If he's not interested, then that'll be it. I have read Cap'n Jack's leaseback advice.

I'm not trying to make money with a leaseback, just take care of some of my rental costs, and most importantly, have a plane that has a schedule I can depend on. At the beginning of the week, I had a lesson scheduled for M - F. This morning, Tuesday's and Wednesday's lessons have been cancelled.
 
So when is the new projected solo date? Sounds like you are ready!
Thanks, I don't know. I flew again yesterday. If anything, my landings were better than they were when I left off last week.

I dropped every landing in last week. Yesterday, I flared, the stall warning horn started mewing, and the wheels went chirp, chirp, and I was right on the center line.
Wind was 13004 and no turbulence. If you can't land in those conditions, you can't land. The rest of my landings were in that ballpark.

It was dusk when we quit. I'd made 6 landings but noticed and mentioned to my CFI that it took a lot more effort to brake right than left so we called it a day. I felt like I could have done at least 6 more and been fine making night landings.

Also, I'm getting better at situational awareness and checklists.

I'm scheduled for the same plane this afternoon, I hope it's fixed by then.

Patrick, the guy at the desk, Garran, my CFI, and I were joking about what bad luck I have with weather and airplanes.

I think it was Thomas Edison who said "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration". For me, I would add in a healthy amount of perseverance.
 
I might be down to the last few mouthfuls of elephant as far as soloing goes.
TLDR: I flew well enough on my (unexpected) pre-solo check ride today to solo.

I flew yesterday afternoon and evening, and made 8 touch and go landings, and two full stop landings. When we were done, my CFI, Garran, offered some tips on how to set up for going to another airport, weather first, then comms, then the GPS. (That came in handy today.) After we landed, he said he'd try to get me set up for a pre-solo check ride this week. (What I thought previously was a pre solo check ride wasn't. Just as well, I wasn't ready then.)

Yesterday's flight started late in the afternoon, and it got progressively darker as time went on. It was still officially daytime my last landing, but dark enough to be night, and I nailed it.

Today, I was partly through the pre-flight when Garran came out and apologized. He said he had planned on flying with me today, but another CFI's student had cancelled, he asked Levi, the CFI, if he was willing to give me a pre solo check ride, and he said "yes".

So, after a while Levi came out and we introduced ourselves and I let him look through my logbook. I finished my pre-flight and managed to remember everything on the check list. We were supposed to stay in the pattern for the option, and he also wanted to see a forward slip.

I flew the pattern, and on final, he had me do a forward slip. I had full flaps in and had pulled the throttle when he told me to go around, which I did. It was no big deal, as it wasn't my first go around. He said he did that to try to see how I did under stress. That stress was about the size of a pimple on an elephant's butt compared to what I've been through!

Then, we flew to Longmont where I did some touch and goes. After that, we flew to the practice area and did some steep turns, a power on stall, and some slow flight. I wasn't happy with my first attempt at a steep turn as I was out of practice and spent too much time looking at the instruments. The second one he blocked the instruments and it was much better because I watched the horizon on the IP. I tried the one to the left again, and it went much better. He said my first attempt was fine, even though I got really close to 60 degrees bank.

We flew back to KEIK, and I shot two landings in the dark. I hadn't had the experience of landing in the dark w/o working up to it for almost 20 years, and each time I flared a little late, but the 2nd was better than the first. But Levi said he wasn't going to flunk me because night landings weren't part of the syllabus for that flight.

At the end of it, Levi said he couldn't clear me to solo, but that wasn't his decision. He said he wouldn't have any objection to me soloing. The decision is up to Garran.
Levi also said I found some traffic before he did.

I fly with Garran tomorrow, plane and weather permitting.
 
I was expecting to kick off my training wheels yesterday, but Garran said he didn't want to leave me up in the dark, alone, so I didn't solo. However, we flew to Longmont, and I made a lot of touch and go landings, including one short field landing (it was more like a spot landing).

When I flew with Levi, my first two landings the wheels chirped, and then I was back to normal. Yesterday, I don't know how I did it, but my first two landings they were so smooth the wheels didn't even chirp. After that my landings were back to normal.

I've discovered my landings are better if they are at least somewhat stabilized, and I'm not having to salvage them on short final. I didn't have to salvage any of them last night, and they were all pretty good. I'm thinking now that if I'm trying to salvage a landing at the last minute, especially after dark, it's time to go around. That's what everyone has been saying since airplanes were invented!

The runway is closed for painting today, so assuming good weather and the plane is available, I'll fly with Garran tomorrow. He said on one downwind he was going to solo me Friday and wear a shirt I don't like because he is going to cut it off me. The only shirts I don't care about much that I have available are T-shirts, so that's what he'll cut off me.

I feel a lot better about soloing now than I did what was it, two months ago?
 
I didn't fly Friday. The runway was closed so they could finish painting. I have a lesson scheduled at 3:30 Monday, and another one at 1:30 Tuesday.

I now have an endorsement to take the FAA knowledge exam from Garran. I've been scoring in the 90's on practice tests, so I think I should be good to go.
 
Last night's flight was canceled due to a weather trifecta. The wind was coming up, the clouds were moving in, and the ceiling was getting lower. I decided to cancel before my CFI turned into a no-show. Also, on the way home, we started getting freezing drizzle. If nothing else, I'm getting good at ADM and choosing the "no-go" option.

I woke up to a light dusting of snow, but it's sunny and bright. I'm hoping the weather holds until my flight this afternoon.
 
I actually flew this afternoon. The wind started out weird and didn't get much better. Neither of the three windsocks agreed with each other, nor AWOS. We decided on 16 for the first three flights. The second landing I encountered wind shear just as I was about to flare. Surprisingly enough to me, I felt the plane start to bottom out on me and it seemed like it was descending too fast, so I mightily hauled back on the yoke and made a decent landing.

The third landing we had a crosswind at pattern altitude and a 30-knot tail wind on final! I figured I would need more of the runway than usual and didn't try to force the plane down.

After that, I made a couple circuits on 34 until the direct crosswind got to 15G19 knots. That took a major crosswind correction. It felt like I was doing a forward slip just to stay lined up with the runway. I don't have the reactions Ethan does (yet), so he kept the plane over the runway during the flare. On final, I decided that this was getting a little too gnarly for me; before I said anything, Ethan said that this would be the last flight of the day. I agreed with him.

This wasn't a pre-solo check ride, but he said that I'm ready. I fly with Garran on Thursday; plane being available and weather permitting.
 
Sounds like a first solo might be imminent! Just out of curiosity, how many hours are you up to now? @Crashnburn
 
I actually flew this afternoon. The wind started out weird and didn't get much better. Neither of the three windsocks agreed with each other, nor AWOS. We decided on 16 for the first three flights. The second landing I encountered wind shear just as I was about to flare. Surprisingly enough to me, I felt the plane start to bottom out on me and it seemed like it was descending too fast, so I mightily hauled back on the yoke and made a decent landing.

The third landing we had a crosswind at pattern altitude and a 30-knot tail wind on final! I figured I would need more of the runway than usual and didn't try to force the plane down.

After that, I made a couple circuits on 34 until the direct crosswind got to 15G19 knots. That took a major crosswind correction. It felt like I was doing a forward slip just to stay lined up with the runway. I don't have the reactions Ethan does (yet), so he kept the plane over the runway during the flare. On final, I decided that this was getting a little too gnarly for me; before I said anything, Ethan said that this would be the last flight of the day. I agreed with him.

This wasn't a pre-solo check ride, but he said that I'm ready. I fly with Garran on Thursday; plane being available and weather permitting.

Your perception of wind shear as a pre solo student is amazing!
 
Thanks, all.

Ethan said 30 knots. I wasn't watching ground speed, and after I cut power, I just paid attention to the landing. He saw the ground speed and air speed difference.

I'm right around 200 hours.

I didn't perceive it as wind shear, more like my descent rate was to high so I needed to pull back on the yoke more to arrest the descent. BTDT already.

There's a very light breeze and it should be around 48 degrees F when I fly early this afternoon.
 
I was ready to solo Dec 13, last year, but I hadn't gotten much sleep after winning a Texas Hold'em poker tournament, and the winds were swirly. I'd landed a few times but each landing seemed to be worse than the one before, so I deferred until the following Monday.

The weather was great, the winds calm, I was well rested, and my job interview was over, so I was READY!.

Then I got a text from my CFI. He said he'd told the Chief Instructor that I had turned into traffic multiple times (true) and had trouble finding traffic in the pattern (also true) and that they didn't want me flying with that FBO in the interest of safety. I didn't blame them; I had been hoping there wouldn't be much traffic when I soloed. My CFI said that proper training could resolve those issues, but his hands were tied.

I recently started flying with Aero-Sphere in Longmont. It seems wrong I drive by KEIK on my way to KLMO, but them's the breaks. However, I feel that my Erie CFI, as well as my KRHV CFIs were shortchanging me, in that they weren't having me fly a square pattern, adjusting flaps, throttle, and airspeed abeam the numbers, turning base, and turning final.

I had almost a two-month layoff, and my landings weren't very good to start, but now they are coming back, after three lessons.

Also, I'm getting a lot better at finding traffic in the pattern, and as I can find them, I won't be turning into them.
 
However, I feel that my Erie CFI, as well as my KRHV CFIs were shortchanging me, in that they weren't having me fly a square pattern, adjusting flaps, throttle, and airspeed abeam the numbers, turning base, and turning final.
So, just what exactly WERE they having you do?
 
Then I got a text from my CFI. He said he'd told the Chief Instructor that I had turned into traffic multiple times (true) and had trouble finding traffic in the pattern (also true) and that they didn't want me flying with that FBO in the interest of safety. I didn't blame them; I had been hoping there wouldn't be much traffic when I soloed. My CFI said that proper training could resolve those issues, but his hands were tied.

……….

If your situational awareness is this deficient at 200hrs, you should consider that not everyone is cut out to do this.

No shame in this. You have your home simulator for fun.
 
... I had turned into traffic multiple times (true) and had trouble finding traffic in the pattern (also true) ...

Why do you think this happened? Vision? Hyper-focus on the instruments? Poor scanning technique?

This is one place that a home sim can really build bad habits. In a busy pattern at an untowered field, you have to be watching in all directions - something that you can't do in most sims.

What's your plan to address it?
 
...I didn't perceive it as wind shear, more like my descent rate was to high so I needed to pull back on the yoke more to arrest the descent. BTDT already...
I've had to take a hiatus on my lessons, but if your descent rate is too high wouldn't you just add power to arrest it while keeping speed as needed to contend with wind shear? Every takeoff and landing I've had, EVERY one, has had significant crosswind and turbulence. In a couple cases my CFI cautioned me about wind shear and said to maintain a higher airspeed (+5-10kts). Did your CFI want normal or increased approach speed with wind shear? This is something I will do further inquiry. I'm a low, low timer student.
 
I’m sorry you had another setback. I don’t personally know your flying, but there’s definitely a pattern established here and I doubt I’m the only one that sees it. If it’s bad enough that this FBO fired you for the reasons you say, and you’re sitting well over 200 hours pre-solo, there’s got to be more to the story. As an outside observer hearing only your side, it feels like this centers on hyper-fixation.

So many aspects of flying are interconnected. It’s all about the juggle - dividing attention while still repeatedly performing tasks with a modicum of precision. In this very long thread there is a lot of textual hyperfocus and fixation on individual tasks, paraphrasing: “this happened because I did this” or “I just need to fix this little thing, so I (overanalyzed it and) did it 100 times.” Trying to fix problems is technically correct, but it’s still sequestered into little silos, as if drilling and fixing this one little thing, then the moving on to next thing as if it’s unrelated, is a magic bullet.

At some point all of these things have to be recognized and executed as an interconnected, fluid endeavor that requires constant vigilance and competence. It has to “click” and it all has to become second nature, not a bunch of individual, disconnected events. By no means am I saying executing the little things aren’t important, but take a step back and look at the big picture: Where are you, where is everybody else, what are you doing? Then do the thing and let people know you’re doing it. Fly the plane. If the result is not perfect (as long as it wasn’t dangerous), know that nobody is - we all have landings we want another shot at. We all have make comms that require another sip of coffee before pressing the PTT. Yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

But if you can’t see yourself doing that, and you’re continuing to be a hazard to yourself and other traffic, maybe reconsider shopping for instructors/schools that are just going to keep doing this dance.
 
I've had to take a hiatus on my lessons, but if your descent rate is too high wouldn't you just add power to arrest it while keeping speed as needed to contend with wind shear? Every takeoff and landing I've had, EVERY one, has had significant crosswind and turbulence. In a couple cases my CFI cautioned me about wind shear and said to maintain a higher airspeed (+5-10kts). Did your CFI want normal or increased approach speed with wind shear? This is something I will do further inquiry. I'm a low, low timer student.
Yes, they've all addressed the subject. Essentially add 1/2 the gust factor to the final approach speed.
 
I’m sorry you had another setback. I don’t personally know your flying, but there’s definitely a pattern established here and I doubt I’m the only one that sees it. If it’s bad enough that this FBO fired you for the reasons you say, and you’re sitting well over 200 hours pre-solo, there’s got to be more to the story. As an outside observer hearing only your side, it feels like this centers on hyper-fixation.

So many aspects of flying are interconnected. It’s all about the juggle - dividing attention while still repeatedly performing tasks with a modicum of precision. In this very long thread there is a lot of textual hyperfocus and fixation on individual tasks, paraphrasing: “this happened because I did this” or “I just need to fix this little thing, so I (overanalyzed it and) did it 100 times.” Trying to fix problems is technically correct, but it’s still sequestered into little silos, as if drilling and fixing this one little thing, then the moving on to next thing as if it’s unrelated, is a magic bullet.

At some point all of these things have to be recognized and executed as an interconnected, fluid endeavor that requires constant vigilance and competence. It has to “click” and it all has to become second nature, not a bunch of individual, disconnected events. By no means am I saying executing the little things aren’t important, but take a step back and look at the big picture: Where are you, where is everybody else, what are you doing? Then do the thing and let people know you’re doing it. Fly the plane. If the result is not perfect (as long as it wasn’t dangerous), know that nobody is - we all have landings we want another shot at. We all have make comms that require another sip of coffee before pressing the PTT. Yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

But if you can’t see yourself doing that, and you’re continuing to be a hazard to yourself and other traffic, maybe reconsider shopping for instructors/schools that are just going to keep doing this dance.
I see myself doing that. It's an extension of division of attention. It seems like, due to be raised in a large household and having a job that requires extreme focus, I have reverse ADHD.
 
Yes, they've all addressed the subject. Essentially add 1/2 the gust factor to the final approach speed.
That is a good way to fly an approach in gusty conditions. However, wind shear is not the same as gusty winds. Wind shear is a situation where there is either a change of direction or wind speed or both near the surface. You may encounter a rapid change of airspeed and turbulence when you go through the boundary.

For example, at our airport, we may be using runway 31 with winds 290 at 12, with wind shear 1000 feet AGL where the wind is 240 at 45. You may be crabbing on downwind but it will all change when you descend.
 
Yes, I've encountered a lot of that, especially here in CO.
 
I've had a
Why do you think this happened? Vision? Hyper-focus on the instruments? Poor scanning technique?

This is one place that a home sim can really build bad habits. In a busy pattern at an untowered field, you have to be watching in all directions - something that you can't do in most sims.

What's your plan to address it?
I'm addressing. While between flight schools, when walking and when driving when it's safe, I've started scanning the sky looking for traffic. Sometimes I have to remind myself to start, other times I automatically start my scan.

My most recent lesson was Friday. We were the only ones in the air at Longmont. I made all the calls and verbally called out while I was looking for traffic whenever I was ready to turn.

On an early landing, I inadvertently made a perfect short field landing. I accidentally had the flaps at 40 degrees and touched down pretty smoothly. The 172N only has a 10-degree flap notch. The others need to be by sight. Anyway, I got better at getting the flaps to 30 degrees on final, and my 4th landing was nearly perfect.

I've had two flights cancelled since, due to weather, and there's a good chance that tomorrow's will be cancelled due to extreme cold. That's OK, I'm still moving into my new house and there's a lot of unpacking still to do.
 
I've had 3 flights and a ground school since my last post. In the ground school, Kate and I went through my IFly EFB on my iPad, and I have a Stratus 3 for ADSB.

Kate and I flew a XC to Fort Morgan and back, mostly following the magenta line, but there are landmarks available for pilotage. It was turbulent, so I slowed down to VA, around 95 knots.

She had warned me there was a significant upslope to KFMM's runway, and that I could see it from the air. I wasn't so sure, but now I'm a believer. The slope seemed about as steep as the hills around the ranch I grew up on in Kansas. (They seemed steep and high until I moved to SF Bay area.)

We did pattern work yesterday. She likes my beautiful round outs and flares, and my soft landings. I'm working on nailing the speeds and flap settings after we are abeam the numbers. I think my flight simulator will help a lot there. I mostly just have to hook up the peripherals and reinstall Prepar3D. (I thought I was going to have to rebuild the computer to get SyncToy working, and then the computer had problems hibernating, so I found a website that helped me restore my build, as well as fix corrupt system files. SyncToy is working again, and hibernate works, too.)

When we were abeam the numbers, getting ready to set up for a landing, the flaps stopped working (they were stuck up). Luckily, I have experience landing w/o flaps. I did an entire lesson landing w/o flaps at KRHV. I flew final at 72 knots and had a normal round out and flare (to start). Then a left crosswind came up and we drifted to the right. I cranked in a lot of left aileron and peered out the windscreen to make sure we were going straight. I tried to hold the plane off the runway until I got back to the center line, but the plane was ready to land before I was. I could feel all three wheels hit at separate times. Out of the corner of my eye, I could see Kate nodding the whole time.

Oh, yes. I'm also getting better at looking for, and spotting traffic.
 
Always remember that the published Va is for max gross weight, and we very seldom fly at that weight. As weight goes down, so does Va. Some POHs give several examples of Va at different weights.
True. Va goes as the square root of the ratio of actual weight to the published weight.
 
I had another lesson yesterday. It was a lot of fun. The wind was variable, centering around 60 degrees, and the runway was 11. Kate had me do no flap landings, and at the end she thought I did very well. She thought my fourth landing was the best. I'm not sure what happened on the fifth landing. I did the pattern, final, pulled power, rounded out, and started the flare, and the plane essentially didn't want to descend for a long time. I told her, you need time in the flare to learn how to land, but that was ridiculous. She agreed,

She liked my airspeed control with no flaps, so now I'll be concentrating on controlling my airspeed with flaps. I seem to be able to judge when to make all my turns in the pattern now.

My next lesson is Tuesday morning.
 
I've flown a couple of times since then. Monday, and again today. We had a real windstorm yesterday. I should be used to those, they are just gentle Kansas breezes.

My landings were fine Monday, but my patterns were sloppy. Today, I flew a 180 HP Skyhawk. Oh, what a difference. It makes the 160 HP plane feel like toy.

I had a bit of a problem getting used to the extra right rudder I needed, but it only took a few minutes of slow flight. We left the Longmont pattern because it was pretty much a zoo, with more planes entering the pattern by the minute.

We went to Greely, and as the air got a little choppy, I slowed down to Va. It didn't help the chop, but it did keep the wings attached. I saw my pattern on ForeFlight, and it couldn't have been any better, and I made an OK landing. I kept the plane on, and going straight down the center line, but I needed at least a little more flare. I don't know if I'm actually dancing on the rudder pedals, but my feet are definitely active. Not completely automatic but getting there.

By the time we got back to Longmont, the traffic had pretty much cleared out. I made one 360 to the right to let traffic pass us by. I turned a little too much from downwind to base, and that is probably why we ended up high on final. But, judicious use of the throttle fixed that. My third landing was the best of the day. I kept the plane going straight down the runway and over the centerline. I also somehow managed to hold the plane just off the runway until it was ready to land and gave a little back pressure on the yoke to try to cushion the touchdown.

Next step is to set the throttle at about 1700 RPM abeam the numbers and use pitch to control airspeed (duh!) and fix any altitude issues on final with throttle. (Kate wants it done a little differently, but we'll talk about it next week.)

The first landing was 10 degrees of flaps; the others were 20 degrees. The lower flap settings extend the flare, but right now, the more time in the flare, the better.

I'm still working on spotting traffic and actually found a plane before my CFI.
 
Last edited:
Crash
A lot of folks reading this are rooting for you, but puzzled, i think. Certainly describes me.

You have a fair amout of experience for a presolo student pilot. You’re at what- 225 or so hours now? Invested tens of thousands of dollars (>30k?), lots of time and emergy.

I admire your stoke and perseverance. I’m only a 550 or so hr ppc holder. But I wonder about how you should proceed, and I know I’m not the only one who’s read this from the getgo with those ?s.

Some thoughts.

Pretty clearly, you’re an outlier in flight training. Most of us are outliers in multiple areas. I really struggle woth my kayaking eskimo roll. Really struggle. I have times when i can perform it perfectly, multiple times. And times when I can’t do it to “save my life” (not
Literally
I’ve had one world class kayak instructor suggest that maybe I’m not cut out for it, but no one else. And I’ve not just done them, I’ve seen vids where i “look great” doing them. Had times when I crank out multiple good rolls in a short period.

My point? Among whitewater kayakers, I’m an outlier. Should I keep spending time and effort? I think the andwer is yes, because my other skills seem adequate or better, and I enjoy kayaking. But my iffy roll is what “holds me back” from bigger challenges on the river.

That’s an aside.

Why not take your written? Get it done.
Why not try putting the sim aside for awhile? You tried with it, and folks here- knowledgeable ones, wonder if it’s a distraction

Ask your new instructor if you should contimue. Consider taking two weeks and going somewhere where you can fly 5x/week- say AZ or the like. If you haven’t soled in two weeks and 30 hours, rethink.

Just my thoughts. They’re worth what you paid first them.
Good luck. Again, rooting for you.
 
For the OP
You seem to have lots of insights, observations, experiences.

How about this, can you define objective things that would suggest you should stop pursuing aviation?
How would you define the same for others?

Can you elucidate the lawyerly arguments both in favor of vs stopping training? Maybe expand on that here.
How would a laymen or expert jury of 12 vote?
 
He clearly loves training and can afford it, so why do we care if it makes no sense to us?

Anyway, why is a pre solo student thinking about Va?

I said this a year or two ago: The next nice day do nothing but go around the pattern until signed off and then solo.

That’s the list, everything else he’s doing makes no sense after a hundred pre solo hours.
 
He clearly loves training and can afford it, so why do we care if it makes no sense to us?

Anyway, why is a pre solo student thinking about Va?

I said this a year or two ago: The next nice day do nothing but go around the pattern until signed off and then solo.

That’s the list, everything else he’s doing makes no sense after a hundred pre solo hours.
Because he is posting about it here...
 
He clearly loves training and can afford it, so why do we care if it makes no sense to us?

Anyway, why is a pre solo student thinking about Va?

I said this a year or two ago: The next nice day do nothing but go around the pattern until signed off and then solo.

That’s the list, everything else he’s doing makes no sense after a hundred pre solo hours.

Do you remember that utuber woman that posted videos, had troubles with her gadgets, then killed herself in an accident? Maybe her father also? Hindsight 20/20 there.


That is why we care
 
Back
Top