Filing IFR, another question

mattaxelrod

mattaxelrod

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Mar 11, 2005
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Fanwood, NJ
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Matt
Sorry if this topic is like beating a dead horse--I have a question that I haven't seen answered specifically.

I fly out of an uncontrolled field, so my procedure has been to run thru all my checklists, do run-up, etc., so I'm all ready to go. Then I call tracon on my cell phone through my headset, get my clearance, tell them I'm all set, and off I go. The problems are--I just don't hear the cell phone so well through the headset and end up having to play "Can you hear me now?" with the controller. Then I usually get a different route, so I have to quickly find it, highlight it for myself, and then go. I hate being rushed!

I would so prefer to do all my preflight, then call for the clearance knowing I won't be off for say 15 minutes. THat would give me time to thoroughly familiarize myself with ATC's routing, and I could get all organized with everything.

Can one request a release for 15 minutes from now? They only give you a tiny window, so I don't know how that would work.

Thanks!
 
mattaxelrod said:
Can one request a release for 15 minutes from now? They only give you a tiny window, so I don't know how that would work.
Thanks!
Click to expand...

It depends. You can always call for your clearance and tell them you're not ready and you'll call them back when you are ready. Which I think might achieve what you want - but means 2 phone calls. The advantage of that is you can call from the FBO the first time and take your sweet time figuring out the new routing.

At some places, where the traffic load is light and the arrivals predictable you might be able to negotiate a release time 15 minutes in the future - but most controllers are going to be reluctant to make that commitment.

Hope that helps.
 
It does help. I like your first option. Calling in a relaxed fashion to figure out details is preferable. I have no problem making a second phone call just to let them know I'm ready.

I'll try that next time.
 
is Fanwood, NJ in busy airspace?
If so, can you get a vinob of 15 minutes?? I usually only get 5 minutes in busy places.
(If you can get 10-15 mins that should be enough to find your line.)
At familiar airports I can usually have the plane ready to go, so that I can use the cell phone with the engine off, get the clearance and go, within 5 minutes. If it is a 'spacious' airport, might have to pre-position the airplane near the departure area first, shut down and then call in order to make the 5mins.
I haven't gotten used to the big rush at larger airports where they zing the sid at you - even though you study all the ones you think you might get; its a new one, so you have to flip, flip, flip to find it and then program/tune & ID, read all the details, while they are tapping their toes for you to taxi out and get on with it! "NXxxx, if you aren't able to go within x minutes, I will have to reissue your clearance"
 
It depends on the airport.

I've gotten void times as little as 3 minutes and as long as 10.

At a towered airport, you can pick up the clearance before taxi & have time to sort it out. You should be able to get the clearance before taxi at most airports, and then call on the cellphone for release. Be aware that at some airports that release may take some time. ATC is usually happier if you call them "ready to go" to get both clearance and release.

bill
 
Generally speaking, you can get your route clearance without the release ("ATC clears N56779 to XYZ via [route] [altitude] [etc]...hold for release and call when ready") if you call before you saddle up, and then get the release via cell phone from the end of the runway. Call and ask.
 
I'm not quite as quick as the 60 seconds from start up to wheels up guy that Ron and I saw at Gaston's, but I've had no issues with doing as follows at an uncontrolled field (if I am not able to maintain VFR before activating the flight plan):

  1. Do the entire preflight with the exception of what needs to be done after I start my engine.
  2. Make the phone call, get the clearance void.
  3. Start the engine - check and set the instruments and first 2 waypoints on the GPS
  4. Runup during taxi if pressed for time.
  5. Reset DG again when aligned on the runway
  6. Wheels up - make call.
I've gotten clearance voids as long as 15 minutes, and as short as 5. If you've preflighted everything, and done every possible thing you can that doesn't require starting the engine it should not take longer than 5 minutes at an uncontrolled field from startup to take off. Most of the time you'll launch VFR and activate your plan in the air, and not worry about a CV.
 
Y'know, I might roll with that if (1) it were my airplane and I knew it really well; (2) conditions at the departure airport were not low IFR; and (3) it was not really cold.

If either of (2) or (3) is in question, I'd not get my clearance void prior to engine start. I do not have enough confidence in cold gyros to trust my life on 'em with 4 minutes of spin-up and stabilize time.

Guess I'm probably slow (I hope I was not the "one-minute" guy you referenced above!), but if I am taking off into significant IMC, I am real danged methodical before I take to the runway and commit aviation. When I rush, I miss stuff. So when I fly, I try not to rush.

===

Oops, rushed to post.. See what I mean? All that presumes I am not launching into VFR and picking up clearance in the air.
 
Unless you're in an area of no cellular coverage (rarer and rarer all the time), there's just no excuse not to get the release after you're in the plane, started, warmed up, programmed, and ready to go. I just can't imagine anyone who can afford to fly enough to be a proficient IFR pilot but not be able to afford a cellular phone.
 
Ron Levy said:
Unless you're in an area of no cellular coverage (rarer and rarer all the time),
Click to expand...

Come out to the Northern Michigan. I've been to a few places with no pay phone within 5 minutes and no cell coverage.
 
And many places out west still have analog only coverage. Many of the new phones can't do this. I hanging on to an old tri-mode as long as I can.
 
N2212R said:
Come out to the Northern Michigan. I've been to a few places with no pay phone within 5 minutes and no cell coverage.
Click to expand...

Still the same in much of eastern WA & OR, cental VA, central PA, and a bunch of other places I seem to visit.

One time I picked up an IFR clearances out of Colfax, WA using the pay phone in the ER at the regional hospital about 5 miles down the road. Cell phones don't work in that area and the ER phone was the next nearest public telephone. At 1:30 AM I wasn't about to start banging on farmers' doors asking to use their phones.
 
N2212R said:
Come out to the Northern Michigan. I've been to a few places with no pay phone within 5 minutes and no cell coverage.
Click to expand...
I think you'll find that in those areas of no cell coverage, you also find very little air traffic, so you can get longer void times on your release. The insistence on short void times seems to be driven by higher traffic volumes where there are more people and thus more cellular coverage.
 
Ron Levy said:
I think you'll find that in those areas of no cell coverage, you also find very little air traffic, so you can get longer void times on your release. The insistence on short void times seems to be driven by higher traffic volumes where there are more people and thus more cellular coverage.
Click to expand...

I feel special, this area must be the anomaly. We have high amount of traffic because of multiple V airways and approach corridors yet we have very scant cell coverage because of mtn terrain and probably because the local population hasn't yet reached the profitable level for the service providers.

Also, being smack dab on the line 'tween ARTCC often a land line call to one center tells us to call the other center and/or gives a void time </= the required taxi. Of course, having reached the other center they either ask why I'm calling them or very begrudginly will take the lead in coordinating the departure.

FAA has been mentioning a RCO for long time now but that would be good only for departures to the south. Besides, they're long on talk...hasn't happened yet.
 
Richard, do you know if they got rader yet at SMX. They were one in / one out from quite a ways out last year. But the tower said they were suppose to get a radar feed.
 
ejensen said:
Richard, do you know if they got rader yet at SMX. They were one in / one out from quite a ways out last year. But the tower said they were suppose to get a radar feed.
Click to expand...

Expect 1 in/1 out UFN. On a flight from WJF to SBP I told the owner/pilot to slow down--we were >45 out--because ZLA was working a PA-28 and a King Air behind the Piper with one on the ground yet to cancel. As it was I was just about to suggest we request a hold when ATC read my mind and had us hold because the King Air had just gotten RV to the ILS because the PA-28 was slow to cancel. LA center has been great the last year or so but expect to plan your arrival in coordination with other traffic by monitoring the freq. Non-peak hour arrivals help but expect a delay.

I just got my AOPA Pilot mag today and see there is an article about the much anticipated TRACON. I've only glanced at the article and not read it but it seems to indicate the new system is up--which is not yet the case. I suppose it's on track but there was a deadline which has long since blown by. The TRACON will be based at Santa Barbara and will extend north along the coast as far as SBP and inland roughly parallel to V-25.

As good as that will be it won't help for flights to the north or east. My opinion is it is designed to help traffic in and out of LA. A couple years ago ZLA did install an RCO to handle SBP and since then LA has been great about not treating us like the red headed step child but it's still 1 in/1 out. That goes for SMX to date.

PRB is still no man's land (I've heard ZOA and ZLA are negotiating a 'line adjustment') and any flights to the north or NE out of SBP fall off ZLA fairly quickly--expect non-radar reporting in the blind (no return transmission) until 10K and above or until someone takes pity on you and asks your destination so they can figure out what to do with you.

ZOA will not acknowledge, will acknowledge as unreadable, or acknowledge only for the hand off. There aren't any east bound V airways close by anyway so you'ree on your own with or without the TRACON in those quadrants or leaving out of PRB.

I know this thread is about on the ground wanting to get up but the 'fix' coming down the pike is really all about once you're up there. I also know I probably sound like a whiner. Actually, I don't too much mind how it is now (although it can be very frustrating at times) and I know there are some great people doing great things in getting radar coverage to this area and I think they are doing a great job. Just don't expect the new coverage to solve all the problems or to vanquish the delays.
 
Thanks for the update. No real complaints on my part, always had good service from SMX tower and Center. But a impatient commuter pilot got an refresher in IFR procedures from a very patient Center controller while I was on my way down the LOC/DME BC after the tower closed. Just couldn't understand why he couldn't leave. And you loose radar about 10 minutes out.
 
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