Fiberglass Scratching

weirdjim

weirdjim

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weirdjim
(Some may consider this OT. Trust me, it is a maintenance issue.)

Without going into excruciating detail ...

I have a small square of resin-fiberglass PC board, roughly 2" square. It is 0.062" thick. One side has the pc board copper traces on it and the other side is bare resin/glass. The bare glass is smoother than snot on a glass doorknob.

The process I am using to transfer information onto that smooth side is by running the information through a laser printer onto photogloss paper and then transferring the plastic black laser toner to the fiberglass surface by means of toner remelt with a clothes iron.

It isn't sticking. The glass is so smooth that the toner would rather remain on the gloss paper rather than transfer over to the smooth glass.

Using this same method on the COPPER side of the board is trivial. Rough the copper surface up with fine sandpaper, finish with a kitchen tuffy and Bon Ami, and it sticks like nobody's business. Not so much on the glass. Actually not so much at all.

Sandpaper only makes fiberglass dust. Steel wool doesn't touch it. As I see it, there is a two-part problem.

One, the glass is slick and won't "grab" onto the toner. Two, the copper metal gets hot enough from the iron to make the transfer happen; the fiberglass doesn't get anywhere NEAR the heat transfer that the copper does.

The second part is relatively easy. Let the ironing go for double (or triple, or whatever it takes) amount of time until the fiberglass gets hot enough to make the transfer. HOWEVER, until I can rough up the surface of the glass I don't think it will transfer anywhere near what I need.

Other than calling my cousin Guido in Chicago to come rough the fiberglass up, anybody got any clever ideas I can try that won't also melt the copper traces on the backside?

Thanks,

Jim


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is it possible there is wax or something that also is causing the toner not to stick? If it is PVA, it should be soluble in water. Try washing it with water, followed by acetone (which should remove other compounds)

If the glass was laid up with vinyl ester resin, I read in a publication to which you contribute that that doesn't really fully cure if it was cured exposed to air, and some stuff other than vinyl ester resin won't stick.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
is it possible there is wax or something that also is causing the toner not to stick? If it is PVA, it should be soluble in water. Try washing it with water, followed by acetone (which should remove other compounds)

If the glass was laid up with vinyl ester resin, I read in a publication to which you contribute that that doesn't really fully cure if it was cured exposed to air, and some stuff other than vinyl ester resin won't stick.
Click to expand...


Washed in dishwashing detergent, dried with a heat gun, wiped with acetone.

Something had to stick to it. The "slick" surface had one ounce copper tightly bonded to it until the muriatic acid and hydrogen peroxide stripped the copper and its glue off.

Jim
 
No further ideas, at least for now, at least for what you want to do with the toner ink.

Maybe acrylic paint, or get a vinyl sticker made.
 
Green scrubby pad is what we use to scuff FG for paint, may work for you.
 
Henning said:
Green scrubby pad is what we use to scuff FG for paint, may work for you.
Click to expand...

Used the green scrubby pad for the soap cleaning step. No joy. Tried scratching it with one of those black scrubby pads used to strip paint. No joy.

Best thought so far comes from the vinyl sticker idea. No reason not to use a plain old paper shipping label run through the inkjet printer and cover it with clear plastic spray. NICE JOB, GANG. I appreciate the help.

(No, it won't look "professional" but this is for an Oshkosh forum demo and it SHOULD look "home-made".) jw
 
weirdjim said:
Used the green scrubby pad for the soap cleaning step. No joy. Tried scratching it with one of those black scrubby pads used to strip paint. No joy.

Best thought so far comes from the vinyl sticker idea. No reason not to use a plain old paper shipping label run through the inkjet printer and cover it with clear plastic spray. NICE JOB, GANG. I appreciate the help.

(No, it won't look "professional" but this is for an Oshkosh forum demo and it SHOULD look "home-made".) jw
Click to expand...

Try a pen eraser or 320 wet/dry..:dunno: Have you tried MEK or other solvent? Do you know if it's polyester or vinyl-ester resin?
 
Henning said:
Do you know if it's polyester or vinyl-ester resin?
Click to expand...
I would expect epoxy for a circuit board. The problem with epoxy is often an amine blush, but pre-washing without success would suggest that this is not the problem in this case.
 
Sand or soda blast?

Not sure how much information you need, but what about a pantograph engraver? One easy payment.
 
weirdjim said:
Used the green scrubby pad for the soap cleaning step. No joy. Tried scratching it with one of those black scrubby pads used to strip paint. No joy.

Best thought so far comes from the vinyl sticker idea. No reason not to use a plain old paper shipping label run through the inkjet printer and cover it with clear plastic spray. NICE JOB, GANG. I appreciate the help.

(No, it won't look "professional" but this is for an Oshkosh forum demo and it SHOULD look "home-made".) jw
Click to expand...

Jim,

When's yiur presentation? Topic?

Paul
 
OK, gang, here's what you did for me.

This is a do-it-yourself LED landing light driver circuit board. One side (the silver traces side) is the wiring and the white side is where the parts are placed. I couldn't figure out a good way to do the parts thing because as I said, the glass was too slick.

I did it this way twenty or thirty years ago and just flat-ass forgot how to do it this way. Thanks for jogging my memory.

Jim
 

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I see what you are doing now. Another way is to print it on a printer, then use spray mount to glue the printout on the PC board. Spray mount is essentially rubber cement in a spray can. But it looks like you have it solved.
 
are you going to do an article on it with all the artwork? sounds interesting.

bob
 
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