Ferrying an airplane

Grum.Man

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Grum.Man
Anyone used a ferry source like you always see on BS? Curious how it went, how weather delays added up on the cost. Would you do it again?
 
Anyone used a ferry source like you always see on BS? Curious how it went, how weather delays added up on the cost. Would you do it again?

I haven’t used a ferry service, but I had a ferry business before I started my current teaching job.

Ferry services can be a great option IF you don’t have the time/flexibility to fly it yourself AND you engage a good respectable and responsible ferry pilot.

There are a lot of variances in rates/what ferry pilots charge. For most small GA planes, there are sooooo many aspiring airline pilots wanting to build time that they tend to undercut each other. Young kids volunteering to fly airplanes for the gas money. But hard to hold those types accountable if something goes wrong. Right now, because of COVID, I suspect the ferry market is flat out saturated with pilots looking for work.

When I started, I took whatever I could get and had a relatively low flat daily rate and often used frequent flyer miles for travel. I got to the point where I had enough corporate flying going that the ferrying became a side business where I could pick and choose what jobs I wanted and set a firm rate.

My approach to a ferry job was I’d look at weather a week out and start a trip when I was 90% confident I could make it VFR without issue. The last thing I wanted to do was get stuck somewhere sitting on my butt waiting for weather to clear. Then you get into the debate with yourself of whether to charge the client for the delay (which wasn’t their fault) or eat the time cost. I made sure that never happened and I was ferrying small piston single VFR only airplanes across the US.

Maintenance issues are another story, but fortunately I had very few of those.

Most common cost structure for reputable ferry pilots involves
a set day rate, expenses such as food and lodging as well as fuel, and transportation home.
 
I figured. Going to take a special ferry pilot to want to fly a small single place biplane cross country at 2 hour legs. I don’t mind doing it my self and could take the time off. My issue is while I have my TW endorsement I don’t feel my skills are sharp enough to handle all the different airports and wind conditions I would encounter between WA and NC.

my other fear is someone getting hurt ferrying an airplane I know little about and what those repercussions could mean.
 
I’ve never used them for ferrying services, but I know one of her pilots. Sarah helped me with handling services and found me an airport I could use for a trip to Belize. They specialize in tail wheel ferrying.

http://www.fullthrottleaviationllc.com/

Whenever I had a prospective client contact me and I couldn’t fit the trip in or because I wouldn’t be able to make it worthwhile from a cost standpoint, I always referred them to Sarah.
 
I figured. Going to take a special ferry pilot to want to fly a small single place biplane cross country at 2 hour legs. I don’t mind doing it my self and could take the time off. My issue is while I have my TW endorsement I don’t feel my skills are sharp enough to handle all the different airports and wind conditions I would encounter between WA and NC.

my other fear is someone getting hurt ferrying an airplane I know little about and what those repercussions could mean.

Biplanes are challenging. I started out doing them, and then I learned to price myself out of that market. Flying a biplane across the country is very physically demanding. It loses the romantic fun quickly.

What kind of biplane. Sarah’s outfit would be a good recommendation. If it is a Waco, let me know. I know a very good Waco pilot who flies for United and does occasional ferries.
 
Biplanes are challenging. I started out doing them, and then I learned to price myself out of that market. Flying a biplane across the country is very physically demanding. It loses the romantic fun quickly.

What kind of biplane. Sarah’s outfit would be a good recommendation. If it is a Waco, let me know. I know a very good Waco pilot who flies for United and does occasional ferries.
It’s a Starduster SA100
 
I met her at Oshkosh one year. She made a good impression.

Sarah delivered a plane for me a few years ago. She was outstanding, and prices were fair.
 
It’s a Starduster SA100

I’d definitely try Sarah. She actually maintains a pool of pilots who work for her scattered around the country and would be a great choice. What I liked about Sarah is that she was always helpful and respectful as a competitor. I never felt like she was on the other end of any calls trying to undercut me.

Cant say the same for many other ferry pilots.
 
I haven’t used a ferry service, but I had a ferry business before I started my current teaching job.

Ferry services can be a great option IF you don’t have the time/flexibility to fly it yourself AND you engage a good respectable and responsible ferry pilot.

There are a lot of variances in rates/what ferry pilots charge. For most small GA planes, there are sooooo many aspiring airline pilots wanting to build time that they tend to undercut each other. Young kids volunteering to fly airplanes for the gas money. But hard to hold those types accountable if something goes wrong. Right now, because of COVID, I suspect the ferry market is flat out saturated with pilots looking for work.

When I started, I took whatever I could get and had a relatively low flat daily rate and often used frequent flyer miles for travel. I got to the point where I had enough corporate flying going that the ferrying became a side business where I could pick and choose what jobs I wanted and set a firm rate.

My approach to a ferry job was I’d look at weather a week out and start a trip when I was 90% confident I could make it VFR without issue. The last thing I wanted to do was get stuck somewhere sitting on my butt waiting for weather to clear. Then you get into the debate with yourself of whether to charge the client for the delay (which wasn’t their fault) or eat the time cost. I made sure that never happened and I was ferrying small piston single VFR only airplanes across the US.

Maintenance issues are another story, but fortunately I had very few of those.

Most common cost structure for reputable ferry pilots involves
a set day rate, expenses such as food and lodging as well as fuel, and transportation home.

Did you have insurance that covered this?
 
Got a quote from Sara. Said to expect around 4,800 all in. Very nice lady but I’ll have to wait to find something closer.
 
Did you have insurance that covered this?

I did not have my own insurance that covered commercial ops. The way I handled insurance was to make sure I was named on the client’s policy and covered accordingly. Occasionally, if the ferry trip was arranged through the local flight school/maintenance shop, then I was covered as a named pilot on their policy. It sometimes adds an additional cost to the owners policy, but for the kinds of planes I was ferrying, it is pretty minor.

It’s virtually impossible for a non-CFI small operator to get commercial aviation insurance. I tried.

Some ferry pilots are out there with no insurance coverage at all. A few, like Sarah Rovner’ have bigger operations and manage to obtain their own insurance policy. Some claim to have insurance but they are actually using non-owned ‘renters’ insurance which will not cover a commercial operation like ferrying.
 
Got a quote from Sara. Said to expect around 4,800 all in. Very nice lady but I’ll have to wait to find something closer.

To ferry a biplane WA to NC, that sounds reasonable.

I always quoted a flat rate for flying and expenses and the only variable would be fuel. That was my incentive to avoid delays and communicate to the owner that I had no incentive to delay/extend the trip or otherwise milk them. Obviously if there was a need to delay we’d discuss it and every owner I worked with was willing to offer additional compensation for delays.

If I was doing the estimate, it would likely be within $500 of what she quoted you.
 
It’s a Starduster SA100

I can’t help with my current work, but ferried an Acroduster once. I’d definitely recommend going with a more professional ferry pilot with a healthy respect for potential experimental quirks.
 
Would a ferry pilot have a 'winter rate' schedule for ferrying an open cockpit biplane? If that was my line of work, it would certainly affect my quote.
 
Would a ferry pilot have a 'winter rate' schedule for ferrying an open cockpit biplane? If that was my line of work, it would certainly affect my quote.

Unofficially, yes. Most definitely.

Also airplane dependent.

My winter rate for a Waco would probably be $500 a day.
If you asked me to ferry a Stearman in the winter, I’d probably quote $2000 per day....
 
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