Fending off the flying car

spiderweb

spiderweb

Final Approach
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Feb 22, 2005
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Ben
We have to unite. Please. Please. There is a reason we have a hard-earned certificate that allows us to operate a "vehicle" above the ground. Don't encourage the enthusiasm for flying cars! [Rip me apart if I'm wrong!]
 
Legend has it that Ford was interested in mass producing Molt Taylor's Aerocar until the FAA/CAA, faced with the prospect of millions of novice pilots flying in U.S. airspace, put the kibosh on the concept.
 
Barring the invention of a Jetson's-like technology, the only point of a flying car now is to be able to drive yourself to the airport in your airplane. Seems like a pretty expensive party trick to me.
I doubt any non-pilot sees a "flying car" LSA and thinks to themselves, "gee, I am inspired to go out, spend ten grand on a pilot certificate so I can then go and spend $125,000 on a flying car that's small and slow."
The most amazing thing about flying cars is that they still attract R&D dollars from idiots.
I don't think they're a threat to anybody but their investors.
 
spiderweb said:
We have to unite. Please. Please. There is a reason we have a hard-earned certificate that allows us to operate a "vehicle" above the ground. Don't encourage the enthusiasm for flying cars! [Rip me apart if I'm wrong!]
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Even a "flying car" will require that same hard-earned certificate. This is not a threat to us, it's something that could increase the number of pilots.
 
I think the Terrafugia is simply a drivable airplane. On the other hand is Moller flying car, which is only a myth.
 
I doubt we're in any danger. I agree, if anything is seen from this, it would be the increase in pilot community.
 
spiderweb said:
We have to unite. Please. Please. There is a reason we have a hard-earned certificate that allows us to operate a "vehicle" above the ground. Don't encourage the enthusiasm for flying cars! [Rip me apart if I'm wrong!]
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Consider yourself ripped apart.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Even a "flying car" will require that same hard-earned certificate. This is not a threat to us, it's something that could increase the number of pilots.
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Agree! That said, as an engineer, in the current crop of 'flying cars', I haven't seen anything that is at all practical, either as a car or an airplane.
 
I wonder what would happen with road rage, air rage. does one pull over on cloud 9...?
 
There's no risk of that working out. People can't handle the high friction environment of rubber on concrete with idiot designed lanes and traffic signals. Put those people in the air and evolution will solve the problem very quickly. Completely computer control it and they'll find a way to get into the air with 40mph gusting winds and thunderstorms while going 200mph between buildings..problem solved.

If they rubber stamp flying cars, the bulldozer, front end loader and dumptruck business is where you want to be. It'll make wallstreet look like pocket change for a few months.
 
Sorry to be so negative, but this is a dumb thread. The only candidates for flying car are the Terraflugia and the powered-parachute dune buggy thing. Both are Light Sport aircraft, meaning you need a Sport Pilot certificate to operate them in flying mode. The powered parachute thingie won't even work in any wind, and is at best a toy you can use in the early morning or late evening. Terraflugia is a bit better, but like someone else said, will just get you from your house to the airport, and isn't a viable mode of everyday transportation.

If you want to be worried about this issue worry about ultralights. Anyone can fly them, and no license is required. Probably why they're so dangerous.
 
steingar said:
Terraflugia is a bit better, but like someone else said, will just get you from your house to the airport, and isn't a viable mode of everyday transportation.
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Two weeks ago I drove from home to the airport, 10 miles, Preflighted in a heated hangar, then flew 3.5 hours to an airport 10 miles form a client site. Picked up rental car at airport, spent four days in town and had about 60 miles on the rental when I returned it to fly home.

Terrafuggia would have eliminated the $260 car rental, $20 hangar fee at destination and $220 per month hangar rental at home. If I make room in the garage for it.

That being said it's too small, too slow, LSA means non-IFR now so not pratical as a mode of transportation or worth the money to me as a toy.

Now when they build the four door, four seater, IFR capable and that cruises at ~140 knots. I still wouldn't spend the money on it.:thumbsup:
 
RMCN172RG said:
That being said it's too small, too slow, LSA means non-IFR now so not pratical as a mode of transportation or worth the money to me as a toy.
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That is the key right there - until there is a roadable airplane that is IFR certified and can fly over 100 KTAS, I don't see the thing being anything more than a novelty.
 
Everyone wonders why aviation is dying. People always are trying to figure out new ways to get people into aviation. Something that could do that comes along, and people throw a fit about "it isn't fair" or "that isn't how I had to do it, so you shouldn't get to do it that way".

What a bunch of hypocrites pilots are.
 
If Moller's vision (hallucination) ever comes to fruition, pilots will likely be thrown out of the skies. He plans on flying cars, very similar to the Jetsons', where you punch the destination into the onboard computer, and sit back and relax while your personal flying craft navigates for you along NASA designed skyways.

If that happens, you couldn't have yahoos in fixed wing aircraft mucking up the skyways.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Everyone wonders why aviation is dying. People always are trying to figure out new ways to get people into aviation. Something that could do that comes along, and people throw a fit about "it isn't fair" or "that isn't how I had to do it, so you shouldn't get to do it that way".

What a bunch of hypocrites pilots are.
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Wasn't bashing the Terraflugia at all. There are hobbyist pilots who will love the thing, it is really a great idea. Like Ray said, gets you out of having to rent or borrow a vehicle at the other end (assuming you can even borrow, I'm starting to hit airports sans crew cars on a regular basis) and saves hangar fees, assuming you have a big enough garage.

I'm bashing the idea that somehow the Terraflugia is going to bring in untrained pilots. it just isn't so, since you need training to legally fly one of the things.
 
In the yachting world, there is a boat (yacht is a term used to compliment a boat, a yacht can be any size) called a motor sailer. The idea is that it is both a power boat and a sailboat. It is both those things, but it excels as neither. It is a crappy sailboat, it is also a crappy power boat, all mixed into one.

They do sell, they are usually expensive, but they have a following.

I think the same will hold true for an airocar, if it ever progresses beyond the novelty stage.

John
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Everyone wonders why aviation is dying. People always are trying to figure out new ways to get people into aviation. Something that could do that comes along, and people throw a fit about "it isn't fair" or "that isn't how I had to do it, so you shouldn't get to do it that way".

What a bunch of hypocrites pilots are.
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Various inventors have been trying to sell us magic flying cars for decades and some of us older guys are getting tired of it. By now, anyone who has been in aviation for 30 or 40 years and who isn't really skeptical about machines like the Terrafugia has to be more than a little gullible.

Dan
 
Dan Thomas said:
Various inventors have been trying to sell us magic flying cars for decades and some of us older guys are getting tired of it. By now, anyone who has been in aviation for 30 or 40 years and who isn't really skeptical about machines like the Terrafugia has to be more than a little gullible.

Dan
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I'm not investing, but I'll happily cheer them on. No one ever thought anything new would get anywhere until it did. Aviation has more than it's fair share of failures. There have been numerous successes, though.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
What a bunch of hypocrites pilots are.
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Maybe, maybe not.

It's dying because it's regulated to smithereens and cost out the nose..and now they've added the tsa/dhs/tfr nonsense to tighten the one way razor wire zip-tie noose around our necks.

Take a look at what's on the road with you next time you drive across town. Maintenance is iffy at best. High speed me first attitudes. Overloaded, out of balance. Poor vehicle control even with the coefficient of rubber on dry concrete with steel guard rails separating traffic - imagine high winds and turbulence with no ground friction. Do you think those individuals have the ability or discipline for flight? IMNSHO; Flying cars are nice for the odd rare individual however for the masses it's for population thinning (which might not be such a bad thing in the long run), not transportation.

Oh yea, then there's this little problem:
ATC: Flying car N879374987234598 Squawk 51364054540531658403160510 and ident, ident observed over the high school, you're number 25,861 into the mall parking lot, switch to mall approach on 128.56165484. N154351035404, um, nevermind, you crashed into that building at 350 kts and killed a whole bunch of people that were trying to rebuild the place after this mornings crash... :eek:
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Everyone wonders why aviation is dying. People always are trying to figure out new ways to get people into aviation. Something that could do that comes along, and people throw a fit about "it isn't fair" or "that isn't how I had to do it, so you shouldn't get to do it that way".

What a bunch of hypocrites pilots are.
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I'm not saying that. I'm saying this: I don't want the freaking morons I face everyday on the road to be in the air with me. I think that's reasonable.
 
spiderweb said:
I'm not saying that. I'm saying this: I don't want the freaking morons I face everyday on the road to be in the air with me. I think that's reasonable.
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Those "freaking morons" manage a lower accident rate by a factor of 10.

The blanket ad hominem for your fellow drivers makes it easy to accuse you of being elitist and have entitlement issues.

I think your take is purely emotional nonsense and unreasonable.
 
spiderweb said:
I'm not saying that. I'm saying this: I don't want the freaking morons I face everyday on the road to be in the air with me. I think that's reasonable.
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Honestly, I'm more afraid of the morons who don't speak English who regularly fly in the area's I fly than those who drive in the area's I drive.

So, you don't want to die because of someones actions. I get that. Why don't you just stay in bed at home, that way you don't have to deal with anyone? :D
 
Jim Logajan said:
Those "freaking morons" manage a lower accident rate by a factor of 10.

The blanket ad hominem for your fellow drivers makes it easy to accuse you of being elitist and have entitlement issues.

I think your take is purely emotional nonsense and unreasonable.
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You obviously don't live in D.C.

And wait. Are you serious? So fine--their level of training and their attitude is just fine for aviation? What did you go through to get your driver's license? Compare that to flying.

Right. And also while you're at it, compare driving accidents to flying accidents OUTCOMES. Factor of 10 don't mean much if you're dead.

No thanks--airplanes in the air, cars on the ground.
 
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KSCessnaDriver said:
Honestly, I'm more afraid of the morons who don't speak English who regularly fly in the area's I fly than those who drive in the area's I drive.
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What an illogical argument. If they don't speak English, they can't fly. Show me some data that proves pilots for whom English isn't their first language are more dangerous.
 
Jim Logajan said:
The blanket ad hominem for your fellow drivers makes it easy to accuse you of being elitist and have entitlement issues.

I think your take is purely emotional nonsense and unreasonable.
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Sorry to post two responses, but I am going to do this with the assumption that you meant well.

First of all, the statistics mean nothing, because this is apples to oranges.

Secondly, I ask--do you feel entitled? I sure do. Why? Because I busted my behind to get my certificate and ratings, and that ENTITLES me to pilot an aircraft. What I did to get a driver's license pales in comparison, and you know it.

Cars belong on the ground. You rarely get "fender benders" in aviation--screw up, and it is usually serious.
 
spiderweb said:
What an illogical argument. If they don't speak English, they can't fly. Show me some data that proves pilots for whom English isn't their first language are more dangerous.
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Oh yes, they fly. The speak "English" enough to pass the level 4 ICAO standard. They do not have the ability to construct a sentence when operating at an uncontrolled or controlled field, and I doubt they have the ability to comprehend what people say on the radio either.

Clearly, you haven't flown around the large, puppy mill schools for foreign air carriers.
 
Freaking morons on the road vs. in the air - are you kidding me? Getting a pilot cert. takes money, determination, and time - and very little smarts, class, grace, or common courtesy. Those people are *already* up there in the pattern with you and a short trip around any internet forum will reveal them in big numbers.

I like the quote from whoever it was that said earlier in this thread about feeling threatened by transporter technology because it applies to all those that fly for what I think are the wrong reasons. If you could instantly and inexpensively transport you and your stuff anywhere you wanted to go it's true that most aircraft would become extinct and that would leave just those of us left that fly for the shear 8 year old dream of flying freedom - who think a loop and roll are more important maneuvers than a well executed non-precision approach to mins because I have to be at a business meeting. And the most important reason why a transporter would be cool? No FAA.

The flying car won't get any traction (even though it's in the Hammacher Schlemmer catalog I got in the mail today) because it's a stinko car and a sticko airplane. For $350,000 I can buy an awful lot of airplane and a couple of cars to leave at the airports I visit often enough. Besides, are you really going to take to the air in something that's been abused in the mall parking lot for several hours while you were shopping? There's no threat to anyone here besides the investors in the stupid thing.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Oh yes, they fly. The speak "English" enough to pass the level 4 ICAO standard. They do not have the ability to construct a sentence when operating at an uncontrolled or controlled field, and I doubt they have the ability to comprehend what people say on the radio either.

Clearly, you haven't flown around the large, puppy mill schools for foreign air carriers.
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You are wrong--I have.

And, I'll say it again--I feel a lot safer with serious pilots in training for whom English is not their first language than I do on the Washington D.C. beltway.
 
PittsDriver said:
. . . . The flying car won't get any traction (even though it's in the Hammacher Schlemmer catalog I got in the mail today) . . . .
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Please. Say it isn't so. You can really order one RIGHT NOW???
 
spiderweb said:
Please. Say it isn't so. You can really order one RIGHT NOW???
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Probably. And you can order a Moller Aircar, too. People have been doing it for 30 years now. Ordering and taking delivery are two very different things, see. Ask the guys who made deposits on the BD-5 and a few other kitplanes.

Dan
 
spiderweb said:
What did you go through to get your driver's license? Compare that to flying.
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Your first post railed against flying cars. Now it rails against flying with only a ground vehicle license. Clearly you think the two concepts are inextricably linked. Based on that and your subsequent xenophobic posts, the most diplomatic assumption I can make is that you are trolling.
 
spiderweb said:
Secondly, I ask--do you feel entitled? I sure do. Why? Because I busted my behind to get my certificate and ratings, and that ENTITLES me to pilot an aircraft.
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I hate to break it to you, but one does not need to even earn a certificate to pilot an aircraft - that's been the case for decades (at least in the U.S.) You could have saved your behind if you had considered flying ultralights.

(The amusing (in a sad way) thing about flying ultralights is that the uncertificated ultralight pilot can fly at altitudes that are off limits to sport pilots, who are required to have formal training. An ultralight aircraft can fly up to the top of Class E; sport pilots aren't allowed over 10K MSL or 2K AGL, whichever is higher.)
 
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