Fatal - Fort Pierce, FL KFPR

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ateamer

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aviation-safety.net

Accident Piper PA-44-180 Seminole N595ND,

A Piper PA-44-180 Seminole, crashed during a go around at Treasure Coast International Airport (FPR/KFPR), Fort Pierce, Florida. The aircraft, using callsign WCP643
aviation-safety.net

Second fatal crash for Aviator College in nine months. Looks like this one was a planned missed from an ILS.
 
ADSb track has the look of a Vmc rollover? Maybe right engine decided not to cooperate when they pushed up power for the go around?
 
Very sad. Yeah the student kinda declares emergency on archived audio, and you can lastly hear panic from the MEI it sounds like.

It was pretty warm yesterday (I was flying in the area) so my only guess is they went missed at couple hundred feet on the ILS and when they went full power on both engines, they couldn't, and by the time they could figure out what was going on, proper feather etc they just couldn't climb, went under Vmc full power on working engine and they lost control. The plane's photo shows it was upside down, not sure if it flipped on ground or crashed upside down.

Extremely sad news. We're getting alot of stuff in Florida lately.
 
The standard of communication from most of the airplanes in that audio talking to tower leaves a lot to be desired.
 
Mixing up left and right runway, mixing up direction, sloppy read back, cirrus pilot asking tower for clearance for an instrument approach , things missing on read back, rushed read back, poor readability. Everyone of those in just 30minute clip.
The busy controller did a good job seemed like just another day at the office for him, correcting those high priority mistakes, leaving the lower priority mistakes for higher priority workload. None of this relates to the cause of the accident I am just amazed at the terrible standard of radio on this clip.

As for the accident, a seminole is benign single engine, just fly at blue line it isnt a panic situation
 
sonopoa said:
Mixing up left and right runway, mixing up direction, sloppy read back, cirrus pilot asking tower for clearance for an instrument approach , things missing on read back, rushed read back, poor readability. Everyone of those in just 30minute clip.
The busy controller did a good job seemed like just another day at the office for him, correcting those high priority mistakes, leaving the lower priority mistakes for higher priority workload. None of this relates to the cause of the accident I am just amazed at the terrible standard of radio on this clip.

As for the accident, a seminole is benign single engine, just fly at blue line it isnt a panic situation
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THat's a very busy airport with ton of training. Everyone asks tower there if they can shoot the approach (and other airports) for practice. you have alot of student pilots as well.
 
razorseal said:
THat's a very busy airport with ton of training. Everyone asks tower there if they can shoot the approach (and other airports) for practice. you have alot of student pilots as well.
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It has an ILS approach which makes it popular for training.
 
It’s been a long time, but I thought VMC was actually lower than stall speed in the Seminole.
 
Dave Theisen said:
It’s been a long time, but I thought VMC was actually lower than stall speed in the Seminole.
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This flight school could do it. It’s the same one that had an instructor over-G an Archer so badly that the wings came off (no evidence of previous fatigue or damage).
 
razorseal said:
That's a very busy airport with ton of training. Everyone asks tower there if they can shoot the approach (and other airports) for practice. you have alot of student pilots as well.
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One would think that CFIs giving instruction might emphasize to their students how to properly communicate with the tower and ATC.

If I really want to dream, I'll imagine the director of training occasionally monitoring the frequencies to evaluate the instructor's effectiveness in that regard.

I'll stop now. I'm sure your sides hurt and you're wiping tears from your eyes.
 
ateamer said:
This flight school could do it. It’s the same one that had an instructor over-G an Archer so badly that the wings came off (no evidence of previous fatigue or damage).
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Did NTSB ever complete the investigation, I wonder if they called out the school?
 
3393RP said:
One would think that CFIs giving instruction might emphasize to their students how to properly communicate with the tower and ATC.

If I really want to dream, I'll imagine the director of training occasionally monitoring the frequencies to evaluate the instructor's effectiveness in that regard.
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agreed
 
razorseal said:
Everyone asks tower there if they can shoot the approach
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Have you listed to the audio. As per the recording I imagine tower says to "everyone": "go ask the palm beach approach controller". Tower is primarily concerned with runway safety not approach organisation.
 
3393RP said:
One would think that CFIs giving instruction might emphasize to their students how to properly communicate with the tower and ATC.

If I really want to dream, I'll imagine the director of training occasionally monitoring the frequencies to evaluate the instructor's effectiveness in that regard.

I'll stop now. I'm sure your sides hurt and you're wiping tears from your eyes.
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I’m wiping tears from my eyes, but my sides don’t hurt.

Unfortunately very often the goal of flight training isn’t to become a proficient, well-rounded pilot. It’s to learn just enough to get through the checkride, hopefully without more than one unsat checkride per certificate/rating.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I’m wiping tears from my eyes, but my sides don’t hurt.

Unfortunately very often the goal of flight training isn’t to become a proficient, well-rounded pilot. It’s to learn just enough to get through the checkride, hopefully without more than one unsat checkride per certificate/rating.
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Especially at some of the Florida flight schools, or so it appears. Many/most of the students at certain schools are foreign, and as soon as they hit 1500 are gone. It’s an endless cycle of rookies training rookies, never to see each other again or have any further connection. As long as the check clears, the school is happy. As ling as they get an airline job in their home country the students/CFIs are happy. Check the box, move along, next!
 
MauleSkinner said:
I’m wiping tears from my eyes, but my sides don’t hurt.

Unfortunately very often the goal of flight training isn’t to become a proficient, well-rounded pilot. It’s to learn just enough to get through the checkride, hopefully without more than one unsat checkride per certificate/rating.
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I dont think anyone comes out of training as a “proficient and well trained pilot” - the best one can hope for is just enough proficiency and knowledge that, when mixed with reasonably well developed self-preservation instinct, will allow one to survive out there by yourself while slowly building up your skills.
 
k9medic said:
I cleared customs at KFPR yesterday. Damn pile of airplane is just sitting on the ramp. VERY poor taste...
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Right where the school normally enters the runway.

NTSB doesn’t rush to the scene of a small GA plane crash to quickly clear it, so they might be waiting on them.
 
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Warmi said:
I dont think anyone comes out of training as a “proficient and well trained pilot” - the best one can hope for is just enough proficiency and knowledge that, when mixed with reasonably well developed self-preservation instinct, will allow one to survive out there by yourself while slowly building up your skills.
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I guess that depends on your definition of “proficient,” and since we didn’t even use the same additional term, I’m guessing we wouldn’t have the same definition of proficient.

I would consider a Private Pilot to be proficient if he could fly to the ACS standards after the checkride, rather than peaking on the checkride and deteriorating rapidly after that. The latter is the stated goal for many pilots.
 
I would consider proficient that the newly certificated PP could plan a moderate length cross country to an airport they had not been to, determine go/no-go based on conditions and then fly the XC at a safety level that I would allow a close family member to be a passenger.

Not perfectly done, but done safely.
 
My definition of proficient is a pilot who flies at or above ACS standards on every flight. And I’ll be the first to call myself out for not always meeting that standard. Landed hot and long today - within PP standards, but unfortunately I have a commercial cert. Time to train some more!
 
Pinecone said:
I would consider proficient that the newly certificated PP could plan a moderate length cross country to an airport they had not been to, determine go/no-go based on conditions and then fly the XC at a safety level that I would allow a close family member to be a passenger.

Not perfectly done, but done safely.
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All requirements of the ACS, other than the part about allowing a close family member to be a passenger, and I wouldn’t do that with a lot of ATPs.
 
I don’t know, I think some private pilots come out pretty close to proficient, for instance, if they’ve been training for 80 hours and have been flying 2 to 3 times a week, but they often lose that proficiency because they stop spending money on flight training to recoup their bank account. Lower-time pilots’ proficiency is very perishable.
Warmi said:
I dont think anyone comes out of training as a “proficient and well trained pilot” - the best one can hope for is just enough proficiency and knowledge that, when mixed with reasonably well developed self-preservation instinct, will allow one to survive out there by yourself while slowly building up your skills.
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And the most recent 100hr took place the day before. Further evidence of pencil whipping flight schools trying to save a buck. Someone is going to have some explaining to do.
 
RyanB said:
And the most recent 100hr took place the day before. Further evidence of pencil whipping flight schools trying to save a buck. Someone is going to have some explaining to do.
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I read that it had just come out of annual?
 
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