Fatal Electric Aircraft Crash

(Wow... I didn't know until now that PoA has a character limit on posts. Did @denverpilot buy himself an exemption from that? :rofl:)

But I can tell you from talking to a few Tesla fans (one of which is a good friend of mine), you can not convince them that Tesla and electric cars are not going to take over the world within the next few years.

Once you drive electric, it's hard to tolerate going back. Late last year, I turned in a plug-in hybrid in favor of a fully electric vehicle, and since our other vehicle was late in its lease and already over miles, I drove the EV almost exclusively for three months. But after a couple months of that my wife and I both needed to drive to separate places one night, and I drew the short straw and got the gasser. I was sitting at a stop light and literally thought for a second, "Dammit, why is this thing VIBRATING so much?!?!! Oh. Right." :rofl:

He brings up that the chargers are "free" for X and S owners. Now granted 3 owners are going to have to pay to use chargers, but in general how is giving somebody "free" energy a sustainable business model?

The up-front charge for enabling supercharging on the few early Model S cars that came without it was $3K, and that was built into the cost on the rest of them. That's about 24,000 miles worth of electricity, and most people don't use it that much since they're charged up at home.

I think part of the reason they moved away from that model was that the Model 3 is going to invite a lot more apartment-dwellers who don't have the option of charging at home, which changes the equation significantly.

He is also 100% convinced that electric cars will make up at least 50% of the market in the next 20 years, and gas stations will be a thing of the past within our lifetimes. I just do not see it.

EVs are the driving equivalent of Pringles. Once you pop, you can't stop. Having driven a couple now, I don't think those predictions are far off. Of course, it depends how much of your lifetime is remaining. ;)

What I personally feel is more likely to happen is when the incentives are gone, and the major legacy car makers start rolling out their electric cars, Tesla could get buried.

The main thing the others are missing is a comprehensive charging infrastructure like Tesla's supercharger network. Tesla's Superchargers are relatively evenly spaced along the Interstates and other major highways and run at 120kW. The other fast charging standards, SAE-CCS and CHAdeMO, have far fewer stations, are concentrated in population centers, and are mostly limited to 50kW (though in the real world, I normally see only 34 kW on mine). Until someone - be it government, an oil company, or the manufacturers themselves - builds such a charging network, Tesla will have an advantage that the others won't be able to overcome, in addition to some of the other things that put Tesla ahead of them (OTA software updates, no dealers, etc)

is there really a large enough market to sell 500,000 per year at an average of $45K sustained in order to really make money? For years, luxury makers like BMW, Audi, etc have sold cars in that price range, and they sell nowhere near that many units. How can Tesla? For those numbers you need a $20k to $25k car that people can drive away at that price. That is not and never will be the Model 3.

I don't think the Model 3 is going to ever go for that price either. That's what the Leaf, etc. are for. Just like you won't see those BMWs or Audis going for those prices. However, I do think that the base Model 3 is not just going to be intruding on BMW/Audi/Mercedes territory, but also the higher end of Ford/Toyota territory. If you look at the car market as a whole, Tesla doesn't really need that big of a percentage of it to sell 500K/year. The big three each dwarf that on their own, as do the mainstream foreign brands.
 
But I can tell you from talking to a few Tesla fans (one of which is a good friend of mine), you can not convince them that Tesla and electric cars are not going to take over the world within the next few years. He brings up that the chargers are "free" for X and S owners.
This is not true anymore apart from the first 100k or so cars that was grandfathered in with free charging. Newer Model X and S owners have to pay for charging just like Model 3. There are incentives with referrals that can get you free charging, but Tesla makes WAY more money on a referral than a single vehicle can ever use up in SuperCharging during a lifetime. (The average cost of Supercharging for a car total over a 25 years period is around $2000 vs. Tesla makes between $10k and $40k per Model S/X).

is there really a large enough market to sell 500,000 per year at an average of $45K sustained in order to really make money? For years, luxury makers like BMW, Audi, etc have sold cars in that price range, and they sell nowhere near that many units. How can Tesla? For those numbers you need a $20k to $25k car that people can drive away at that price. That is not and never will be the Model 3.

Ford sells 900k F150's at an average price of $45'000 in the U.S. alone. Tesla is aiming to sell 500k vehicles worldwide. Tesla historically has exported around 45% of cars made. So they're really only aiming to sell 275k US cars/years.

Also on the BMW/Audi etc. thing. BMW has sold 400k 3-series last years, and crossed 500k many times in recent years, Mercedes has sold 450k C-Series last year, and Audi has sold 500k A4's and A5's combined.

So short story - you don't need a $25k car to sell 500k units per year. You just need to expand your map of the world to include the countries outside the United States...
 
They've been quite successful at increasing the efficiency of the Model 3 - The drag coefficient is also very low. The owners I know are getting more than 4 miles/kWh. (or less than 250 Wh/mi) Impressive.

I agree - the Model 3 efficiency is truly impressive.

Over the weekend I drove my wife's Model 3 over a mountain pass and back with 4 people and luggage. My speed was 77 mph for three quarters of the way and the rest 66 mph.

It used 219 miles of range for the 216 mile trip, and arrived back with 96 miles remaining. Keep in mind this is twice over a mountain pass, and far over EPA rated speed.


No way my Model S (P85) could do that trip across the pass and back even fully charged to 252 miles - I had to always recharge for 5 minutes halfway before returning. The Model 3 is something else entirely.
 
Tesla hiring drops off sharply...

They dropped over 1100 open positions, after saying they needed more people to make their numbers at the Model 3 plant.

Whether because they filled the positions or something else, currently unknown, but considering their cash flow problem and bleeding like a stuck pig with no particular saviors in sight for loans... I’d hazard a very iffy guess that perhaps they can’t sustain the hiring they said they needed and not run the cash situation into dangerous territory.

If they hired all those folks, great. I’d love to hear that, but my assumption is they would have touted that as good news feel-good PR without even waiting for quarterlies.

https://media.thinknum.com/articles...opping-1165-open-positions-in-the-past-month/
 
Meanwhile from that very interesting website (they had articles in April and May about Tesla’s announcement that they needed to hire a LOT of people, which were positive, prior to that article I posted above...)

This article shows how screwing up in car dashboard software can be a total disaster for an automaker nowadays...

Toyota’s new system in the Camry is a complete miss, it looks like. Not really common for Toyota to screw the pooch like that.

https://media.thinknum.com/articles/toyotas-entune-app-suite-for-camry-has-users-frustrated/

Edit: Be interesting to see if Toyota can fix it with software or if they really screwed the pooch and it’s also bad hardware choices.
 
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