Famous (and infamous) people.. who are pilots

David Oreck of vacuum cleaner fame. Knew some folk who lived on the same residential airpark as him.
 
Found the pics...
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I heard that Tom also took the full maintenance course for the HondaJet in addition to the type rating course, so that he could learn how the nuts and bolts of the airplane work. That's pretty impressive.
 
flyingron said:
David Oreck of vacuum cleaner fame. Knew some folk who lived on the same residential airpark as him.
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https://uncommonmotors.com/david-orecks-1944-grand-champion-beechcraft-g17s-staggerwing/

From Wikipedia:

"Oreck remains active in aviation, maintaining and flying his personal collection of aircraft, which includes a Stinson Reliant SR 10J, a Waco WMF, an Aviat Husky Amphibian, an American Champion Decathlon, a Staggerwing Beech G-17S, and a Beech T-34A Mentor."​
 
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John Denver was killed when he crashed his Long EZ into the ocean. IIRC his medical had been pulled because of two DUIs. I think the fuel system design got some of the blame.
 
MacFly said:
John Denver was killed when he crashed his Long EZ into the ocean. IIRC his medical had been pulled because of two DUIs. I think the fuel system design got some of the blame.
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He ran a tank dry, the problem was that the fuel selector was near impossible to turn (you had to use vise-grips and turn nearly completely around in the seat to do it). He had made arrangements for it to be repaired, and my theory is why he left the tanks so low (no point in filling them if the mechanic is just going to drain them). The medical wasn't an issued. It was pulled not because of the DUI directly, but because he failed to live up to his special issuance (complete abstinence).
 
You have an airplane that is brand new to you. One tank is very low in fuel (you don't know how low because you have never flown it before, much less run a tank dry), the other has more. You know the fuel selector is difficult to work and you have never tried to change tanks in flight.

Plan A) Take off on the full tank, get some altitude over farm country and try changing tanks. If that works OK, run the low tank dry at altitude and switch back.

Plan B) Take off on the nearly empty tank, shoot some touch and go's (so if you run dry climbing out you get to wreck the airplane) and then go fly low over the ocean knowing that you are about to run the tank dry and it is hard to switch - that way if you have trouble switching tanks or if the engine fails to catch in a few seconds or anything else goes wrong you splash.

Guess which plan I used when I wanted to confirm the tank capacity in my new to me E-AB ride that DIDN'T have a known problem with the fuel selector.
Guess which plan John Denver used.
 
I don't think he intended to run the tank dry. The theory is that he also didn't realize the fuel gauges (simple sight tubes) were non-linear in their reading.
 
And tragically he made the wrong decision once the inevitability of fuel starvation became reality. He could have easily bellied it in and been rescued. Lots of boats around there in Monterey or he could have put it down close to shore.
 
flyingron said:
I don't think he intended to run the tank dry. The theory is that he also didn't realize the fuel gauges (simple sight tubes) were non-linear in their reading.
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My 21' bowrider is somewhat unique in that the fuel tank is towards the front of the boat down in the V, so the bottom of the tank is V shaped. Unfortunately, the fuel gauge is calibrated for a normal rectangular tank. So, when it reads 1/2 tank you're really around 1/4 tank, and at 1/4 tank, you're dangerously low. I normally fill up somewhere near the 3/4 and 1/2 point depending on how far I'm running that day.
 
Pugs said:
And tragically he made the wrong decision once the inevitability of fuel starvation became reality. He could have easily bellied it in and been rescued. Lots of boats around there in Monterey or he could have put it down close to shore.
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Don't think there was a decision involved, after the engine quit.

I attended the DOT Experimental Aircraft Accident Investigation class several years ago. One of the presenters was the investigator in the Denver crash.

The fuel selector was above the pilot's left shoulder, and has been mentioned, was very stiff to turn. To get enough leverage, the pilot had to twist to his left. The theory is that the engine quit, and when he twisted to the left to try to work the valve, his right foot went forward on the rudder pedal. The plane banked hard right and started to descend while Denver was distracted.

Ron Wanttaja
 
wayne said:
Never heard that before. I heard many years ago that he would sometimes hop into one of the trucks delivering to a store to arrive unannounced.



Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk
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Was a good write up about him flying his 310 around in AOPA mag back in the day. Might still be somewhere on the internet.

From back when AOPA still barely cared about anybody owning anything smaller than a TBM. LOL
 
denverpilot said:
People around here love that dude so much, they get annoyed when I say he was a mediocre musician and pilot and was headed for a HIMS plan and loss of medical from alcohol. Ugh. Not impressed.
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Not much of a pilot and flauting the FAA medical system for sure. He's a better musician than you think. While some of his most famous stuff is sacharine, he was a pretty good songwriter.
 
flyingron said:
Not much of a pilot and flauting the FAA medical system for sure. He's a better musician than you think. While some of his most famous stuff is sacharine, he was a pretty good songwriter.
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Randy Sparks, founder of the 1960s-era Grammy-winning folk group The New Christy Minstrels, is a friend of mine. Randy sold the NCM in 1964 and turned his attention to running Ledbetter's, his folk night club in West L.A.. There he auditioned and featured young talent, such as The Carpenters, and a kid who played banjo and had a magic act, by the name of Steve Martin.

In late '64 or early '65 a skinny lad from Texas came into Ledbetter's, with his luggage still under his arm, for an audition with a live audience. Randy was in his office upstairs when his wife Dianne phoned from the auditorium. "You need to come down here and hear this one," she said.

"Why, is he a good singer?"

"Ah, he's ... okay," she replied.

"Well, then he must be really good on guitar?" Randy pressed.

Dianne said, "He does play guitar, but not real well."

"Look, Dianne, I'm kinda busy ... "

" ... But the audience loves him," Dianne interrupted.

Randy went downstairs and saw that indeed he had a marvelous rapport with the audience. He brought the youngster upstairs and told him, "I think we have a place to put you on the program. But first, we have to do something about your name."

"My name? No, I'm not gonna change my name. It's my father's name, I'm a junior, and I don't want to change it out of respect for my father."

Randy said, "It's got nothing to do with your father. It has to do with marketing. If we try to squeeze 'Little Johnny Deutschendorf' onto the marquee, the letters will only be three inches high."

John was skeptical. One of the other guys in the room said, "Randy, if you're gonna give him a new name, make it something with the same initials, so he doesn't have to buy new luggage." Randy looked around the room. Over his desk was a framed sheet music cover from a song he had written and recorded by NCM in 1962, called ... "Denver".

John objected, saying it was too close to Bob ("Maynard G. Krebs," "Gilligan") Denver. Randy said, "Play your cards right and people won't even remember Bob Denver." John still insisted that he didn't want to change his name. But after he left the office Randy called the sign painter and told him to put "John Denver" on the marquee. And nothing was ever said about it again.

John's uncle, Dave Deutschendorf, a high school counselor by profession, performed in recent years with Randy's reconstituted New Christy Minstrels. There's a facial resemblance to John, but Dave is a big, 6'6" husky fellow with a wonderful, deep baritone singing voice.
 
Moose Barrows, the Olympic skier mentioned earlier is most famous around Steamboat Springs as the guy who augers in skiing the Olympic 1968 downhill in the old Wide World of Sports TV Series. “The Agony of Defeat” He did fly a Stearman frequently but had some health issues a while back. Saw him last season and he seems to be ok

Cheers

Edited to correct it was the Olympics.
 
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Denver sang (under his real name), with the Chad Mitchell Trio. Folk group with a lot of satirical, topical songs that stirred some controversy. Changing his name might have isolated him a bit from that legacy. His voice is very recognisable, in their records.

Eons ago, I was a disk jockey. Played the trio's "Friendly Liberal Neighborhood Klu Klux Klan" late one night. Got a threatening phone call, afterwards.

Ron Wanttaja
 
I grew up listening to Chad Mitchell Trio records. Mitchell had left the group by the time John Denver was added and it became just the "Mitchell Trio." Another favorite from the MItchell Trio/John Denver era was "What this country really needs is another Movie star" which was apropos again when Ronald Reagan ran for president. Pilawt's story of the Randy Sparks-inspred name change is the story I heard as well and it predated John joining the Trio. He did make his first recorded single of one of his own compositions, "For Bobby," with that group.

I got to see their final concert back in 2014 (though founding member Joe Frazier had died by that time and Ron Greenstein filled in that position). I had managed to see the intact group (Mitchel, Frazier, and Kobluk) at the Birchmere in 1995.

By the way, Jim McGuinn accompanied the group (the trio themselves only sang on the record). Jim subsequently changed his middle name to Roger and used Roger McGuinn professionally (most famously in the group the Byrds). The reason was that ROGER was used a lot with aviation radio use that Jim was fascinated with. McGuinn, to my knowledge, never got his pilot's license.
 
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flyingron said:
Pilawt's story of the Randy Sparks-inspred name change is the story I heard as well and it predated John joining the Trio. He did make his first recorded single of one of his own compositions, "For Bobby," with that group.
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A couple of years ago Randy sent me a vinyl record containing four demo tracks Randy produced in 1965, of John singing three of Randy's songs ("The Road", "Far Side of The Hill", "Anything Love Can Buy") plus Ian & Sylvia's "Four Strong Winds". These are the first recordings John Denver ever made. Randy still owns the rights to them.

Over the years John made wonderful recordings of some of Randy's songs, including "Today" and "Saturday Night in Toledo Ohio." My wife and I attended John's last Portland concert, at the Rose Garden. It was magical.
 
Pilawt said:
"My name? No, I'm not gonna change my name. It's my father's name, I'm a junior, and I don't want to change it out of respect for my father."\
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And for aviation purposes, his Dad, Henry J Deutschendorf, was a pretty famous SAC pilot including setting some speed records in the B-58 Hustler.

https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/12-january-1961-2/

I understand that they had a bit strained relationship growing up and when John started flying it became a common love. Also understand he was pretty serious about it but that whole entertainment lifestyle is a hard mistress.
 
wanttaja said:
I attended the DOT Experimental Aircraft Accident Investigation class several years ago. One of the presenters was the investigator in the Denver crash.
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Years ago I spoke with a gentleman from the FAA that said he was part of this investigation. He gave some details of the aftermath that were pretty shocking & gory. Apparently John hit the water with quite a violent impact.

I've known a few musician/songwriters over the years but I never had the pleasure of meeting John. He is to be respected as one of America's great songwriters.
 
Pilawt said:
There he auditioned and featured young talent, such as The Carpenters, and a kid who played banjo and had a magic act, by the name of Steve Martin.
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I have to admit to personally believing that Karen Carpenter is perhaps the best female vocalist that I've ever heard.
 
X3 Skier said:
Moose Barrow, the Olympic skier mentioned earlier is most famous around Steamboat Springs as the guy who augers in off the ski jump in the old Wide World of Sports TV Series. “The Agony of Defeat” He did fly a Stearman frequently but had some health issues a while back. Saw him last season and he seems ok now.


Cheers
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Wow. I knew the name from the crash lore but didn’t know he flew in other ways! :)
 
flyingron said:
Not much of a pilot and flauting the FAA medical system for sure. He's a better musician than you think. While some of his most famous stuff is sacharine, he was a pretty good songwriter.
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I’ll agree on the writing. I think there’s a lot better performers in the folk niche that get little credit, because they suck at breaking out into pop culture and where the money is.

Just an opinion. No biggie if folks disagree.

Cant say he didn’t know how to ride a wave of hippies and sell albums to them very well, though. Ha. Including my parents.

Maybe also a bit of being sick of listening to the guy so much as a kid. Ha. I’d honestly rather watch Steve Martin play banjo.
 
Daleandee said:
I have to admit to personally believing that Karen Carpenter is perhaps the best female vocalist that I've ever heard.
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I still have my VCRtape of the Carpenters summer tv show with Ella Fitzgerald doing a duet with Karen. Incredible.
 
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denverpilot said:
I’ll agree on the writing.
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Seems we have a bunch of great writers that can't carry much of a tune in a bucket with the lid nailed shut. Take folks like Kristofferson, Nelson, Cash, etc.

Still, they make money because the general rule is; "it's not the singer, it's the song."

Modern culture seems to have abandoned that somewhat as now we have a lot of talentless people making money because they know how to "celebrity" themselves.

But these are just one old man's opinions ...
 
Harrison Ford is a pilot. And a friend to many, many maintenance shops...
George Peppard learned to fly for the movie "The Blue Max". Accumulated 200+hours over a few months. Actually flew the Pfalz DIII in some movie scenes.
Tony Franciosa was a pilot and a good friend and flying buddy of the previously mentioned Susan Oliver. Competed in several Cross Country Races.
John Travolta.
And yes; IMPO Karen Carpenter is still the finest female vocalist ever.
And also IMPO John Denver who, it is acknowledged, had personal problems, was one of the best songwriters and singers of his time. And he had the awards to prove it! He was also an ardent Conservationist and Philanthropist before those two endeavors became bastardized. He was also a nice guy (I met him several times over the years in Aspen).
Again, JMPO
Chris
 
Daleandee said:
Seems we have a bunch of great writers that can't carry much of a tune in a bucket with the lid nailed shut. Take folks like Kristofferson, Nelson, Cash, etc.

Still, they make money because the general rule is; "it's not the singer, it's the song."

Modern culture seems to have abandoned that somewhat as now we have a lot of talentless people making money because they know how to "celebrity" themselves.

But these are just one old man's opinions ...
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Rick Beato on YouTube has some good explanations of what happened to the music biz.

Writing today for someone else is the “best quality of life” job in music. The performers make money off of merchandising mostly. The songwriter gets better royalties usually.

Or so he and many others say.

His videos about YouTube “blockers” who issue DMCA takedowns of even demonetized videos, for use of their songs for educational or other fair purposes, are quite interesting.
 
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