fair price for tire replacement?

Unit74

Unit74

Final Approach
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Unit74
Looking at my skins, they are in need of replacing two. What are you guys paying to replace a tire in a Cherokee?

Any brand I should stay away from?
 
Unit74 said:
Looking at my skins, they are in need of replacing two. What are you guys paying to replace a tire in a Cherokee?

Any brand I should stay away from?
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Cherokee or Arrow? Arrows and Senecas you have to be careful with recaps as some are bigger than others and will stick in the wheel well. Some of them even have some wheel pant issues.

I have found that more important than the brand of tire is the brand of tube.
 
It's an Archer II . I believe it has a 6" wheel.
 
Unit74 said:
It's an Archer II . I believe it has a 6" wheel.
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Yeah, should be 6.00x6. Figure $125 on the tire for a 6 ply, that'll be a premium brand like Goodyear. Figure another $50 for the tube and $40-$75 to mount depending on wheel pants.

If I was looking to save off that, I would be looking at the tire, not tube, to save money on.
 
Henning said:
Yeah, should be 6.00x6. Figure $125 on the tire for a 6 ply, that'll be a premium brand like Goodyear. Figure another $50 for the tube and $40-$75 to mount depending on wheel pants.

If I was looking to save off that, I would be looking at the tire, not tube, to save money on.
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Sounds about right. Keep in mind you can change the tire yourself, it's actually really easy.

At the very least have the AP show you on one and you do the others.

You never know when that skill might keep you from getting stuck somewhere unfortunate, al la Deliverance :D

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I'm always amazed at how long it takes to pull the wheel pants, jack the airplane, remove the wheels, disassemble the wheels/tires/tubes, and reassemble. I don't think I've ever done it in less than 3 hours. Take the wheel pants out of the equation, and it saves a half hour or so.

Just a slow process.
 
If you are going to pull the tire split the rims you might as will grease the bearings while you're at it might be a good time to check to make sure they're in good shape
 
I'll have to take it to a shop. I'm not spun up on how to do my own maint yet. I just bought this plane. All I did previously was fill out a squawk sheet and it was done for me by the FBO.

Plus I also need an oil change.
 
I ran AirHawks on my old Cherokee 140. They were inexpensive and lasted a very long time. I paid less than $60 each for the last set of 6.00x6 ones I bought from Spruce for it. I think they're about $80 each nowadays. I did spend extra for LeakGuard inner tubes and they were worth every penny. They were excellent tires for me and when I needed to change the mains tires on my RV-6 a couple years ago I bought AirHawks and LeakGuard tubes for it as well. No regrets, I'm a happy customer.
 
Unit74 said:
Looking at my skins, they are in need of replacing two. What are you guys paying to replace a tire in a Cherokee?

Any brand I should stay away from?
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When I saw my airline using retreads/recaps from Desser I decided 50 years ago that what was good enough for a 727 was good enough for the Cessna.

I've been running recaps for over 50 years and as yet, not a single failure.

The secret is to get your local maintenance shop to save you some GOOD casings ... Michelin ... Flight Custom ... Flight Standard ... etc. None worn through to the cords. Just keep recapping them and recapping them until Desser tells you that they have come to the end of their noble career.

Then get ANOTHER set of good casings from the FBO. I got TWO sets fifty years ago and keep one set of good ones on the shelf and one on the airplane. When the airplane set wears out, put the shelf on and send the worn out ones back for recap. I think the limit is three or four recaps before end of life. That is thirty to forty years of flying.

No argument to the leak-proof tubes from Desser. Best thing that has happened to airplane tires in a LONG time.

THanks,

Jim
 
Unit74 said:
I'll have to take it to a shop. I'm not spun up on how to do my own maint yet. I just bought this plane. All I did previously was fill out a squawk sheet and it was done for me by the FBO.

Plus I also need an oil change.
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Sheesh. I don't know how fat your checkbook is, but minor maintenance like this is about one tenth the price you will pay if you learn to do it yourself. FInd some mechanic on the field that specializes in do-it-yourself maintenance and spend a few buck$ with him/her and find out how much you can save.

Thanks,
Jim
 
Yeah, if you're going to change the tire yourself it's pretty simple, but there are a couple of gotchas: Overflowing the brake/reservoir system when collapsing the calipers, forgetting to pull the valve core and deflating before disassembly, (if the bolts are super tight and tough to work, stop and make sure it's deflated), not getting the assembly pressure on the tube just right and getting the tube pinched in between the wheel halves, not lining up the dot on the tire with the valve stem, not making sure the rotor is seated flush with nothing on the mating surfaces to cause a misalignment, properly repacking the bearings, and finally setting the bearing preload correctly (if I give it a healthy spin, I want it to stop in about 1 revolution).

The only other major factor is jacking the plane up which on a Cherokee is a simple task that can be done with a floor jack, just make sure you have a solid placement.

One thing about the rules for pilot maint, they do say that the first time you do a job you should be under supervision. The first time you change an aircraft tire and tube, that's a pretty good idea as well unless you have a lot of prior experience dealing with split rims, then it's same as.
 
Another vote for Desser retreads. And you don't have to salvage your own carcasses, you can simply specify the carcass you want when you order. My Monster Retreads are on Michelin carcasses by request.

Another vote for Desser leakguard tubes.

Another vote for doing both the tire change and oil change yourself...find a mechanic to work with you if you're not comfortable unsupervised.

A first vote for taking your tires to a motorcycle shop and spin balancing them, especially if you buy retreads.

I have over 10 year, 1,000 hours and likely 1000 landings on my Dessers and they're still looking good.
 
I put monsters on my 172 this year so we'll see how they go. Interesting about specifying the brand of carcass, didn't know you could do that.

Tim, do I understand you have 10 years and 1000 landings on the same set of tires? Do you fly off grass a lot and would that help on tread life (I would think it would).
 
iflyvfr said:
I put monsters on my 172 this year so we'll see how they go. Interesting about specifying the brand of carcass, didn't know you could do that.

Tim, do I understand you have 10 years and 1000 landings on the same set of tires? Do you fly off grass a lot and would that help on tread life (I would think it would).
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I had the same on my tires on my Travelair. 10 years and over 1000hrs and I never changed the tires and had one tube fail while parked.

Land as slow as you can and stay off the brakes until at taxi speed, that's how to make tires last. Grass is definitely easier on tires though.
 
kyleb said:
I'm always amazed at how long it takes to pull the wheel pants, jack the airplane, remove the wheels, disassemble the wheels/tires/tubes, and reassemble. I don't think I've ever done it in less than 3 hours. Take the wheel pants out of the equation, and it saves a half hour or so.

Just a slow process.
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Watched a mechanic do it for a guy in a Lanceair on a taxiway in 100F heat once. Asphalt had to be well over 120F.

I hope the Lanceair driver tipped him heavily after that.
 
I don't have wheel pants (my plane is a retract) but it doesn't take 2.5 hours. I have done it on the side of the taxiway at Oshkosh, even.
 
Is there any price to high? There you are, away from home on a Sunday with a blow-out. To avoid that, maybe no price is to high?
 
iflyvfr said:
Tim, do I understand you have 10 years and 1000 landings on the same set of tires? Do you fly off grass a lot and would that help on tread life (I would think it would).
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Yes, you understand correctly.

And a decent amount of those landings were indeed on grass (love grass, was even based on grass for about 4 of those years) but not over 15...20% of the total or so.
 
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sourdough44 said:
Is there any price to high? There you are, away from home on a Sunday with a blow-out. To avoid that, maybe no price is to high?
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Some places charge more for a weekend call out. Some won't even do it. No amount of money will fix it on a Sunday. Plan accordingly. ;)

But yes, there's a price that's too high. It's higher than the price of keeping your own mechanic on-call and a King Air available to fly him and the parts to you. Heh. :)
 
Just paid about $200 for a Michelin Aviator tire and tube for the right main on my Tiger (should be about the same for your Cherokee). Got the tire from Desser with free shipping. You might get one main on my bird if you have all the equipment handy and you know this all cold, but I'd budget two just to be sure.
 
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N3368K said:
Tire changing is approved owner/operator maintenance. Save some labor charges.

http://www.aopa.org/Pilot-Resources/PIC-archive/Aircraft-Ownership/Preventive-Maintenance
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It is, but it's not something to be doing yourself for the first time, and you probably don't have the necessary jack. If you've never done it before, get your mechanic to work with you until you're sure you know how to do it right. It's also a good time to take a good look at your wheel bearings.
 
Henning said:
Half an hour with a repack, 20 minutes without.
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I can't even get done with thinking about doing the job and drinking the first beer or two in thirty minutes.

Some things must be adequately contemplated! :wink2:
 
Henning said:
Half an hour with a repack, 20 minutes without.
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Dunno what plane Henning's working on, but it sure isn't a light single with wheel pants. It takes almost that long just to remove the wheel pants on my Tiger (starting with the brake cover fairing and it's 15 or so screws, then the wheel pant itself). Then jacking, pulling the wheel, splitting the wheel, partially filling the tube to insert in the tire (don't forget the talc), reassembling the wheel, inflating to pressure, replacing the wheel, lowering the jack, remounting the pant, remounting the brake fairing, and filling out the paperwork. Ain't nobody can do that in 20 minutes, and that doesn't even include cleaning and regreasing the bearings and replacing the felt, not to mention getting all the tools together and putting them all away. If you tell a mechanic you think you're being gypped because you were billed for more than 20 (or even 30) minutes labor for a tire change on a Cherokee, that mechanic may tell you to take your business to someone who can do it for less -- if you can find one.
 
OP, I would go on Desser's and other tire website and click the 'clearance' button.

That's what I did, and I picked up a special for two 8.50X6 SuperHawk's with tubes for ~$425.00.

Changed them out myself with A&P just watching and approving. It's a good learning experience for if you're ever stuck out in the boonies with no A&P.
 
Ron Levy said:
Dunno what plane Henning's working on, but it sure isn't a light single with wheel pants. It takes almost that long just to remove the wheel pants on my Tiger (starting with the brake cover fairing and it's 15 or so screws, then the wheel pant itself). Then jacking, pulling the wheel, splitting the wheel, partially filling the tube to insert in the tire (don't forget the talc), reassembling the wheel, inflating to pressure, replacing the wheel, lowering the jack, remounting the pant, remounting the brake fairing, and filling out the paperwork. Ain't nobody can do that in 20 minutes, and that doesn't even include cleaning and regreasing the bearings and replacing the felt, not to mention getting all the tools together and putting them all away. If you tell a mechanic you think you're being gypped because you were billed for more than 20 (or even 30) minutes labor for a tire change on a Cherokee, that mechanic may tell you to take your business to someone who can do it for less -- if you can find one.
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That would be for a retract,, Navion was the sample given, wheel pants add time. That's why wheel pants cost the same maintenance $ as retract systems over the long run. They are time consumers every time you have a wheel/tire issue.

It's really not difficult or time consuming work to compress and pull off a caliper or set of pads as required, pull a cotter pin, pull a valve core, pull a nut, spin off six bolts, pop the tire off the rim, stick the new tube in the new tire with the stem lined for the dot and give it a pop of air, powder it, put the hub halves together with the rotor and bolts, fill tire to correct pressure, put the wheel on the axel, spin the nut down to slack gone and keep tightening until one solid flick ends right around 1 turn and the cotter key holes on the nut and axel line up. Reinsert cotter pin, re assemble brakes, pump pedals a couple times and call it done.

If you're ever gonna make money as a mechanic you gotta move.
 
Henning, I'll bet you can't do a tire change even on your 310 in 20 minutes start to finish including the paperwork without having everything laid out and unpacked in advance -- and probably not even then.
 
Just a heads-up. We used to recommend talcum powder for the "lubricant" for the tubes. Talc is now on the "cancer" list. Talc is about the same thing as diatomaceous earth and asbestos powder for cutting your lungs apart if you breath it in.

Just a heads-up for y'all..

Jim
 
Ron Levy said:
Henning, I'll bet you can't do a tire change even on your 310 in 20 minutes start to finish including the paperwork without having everything laid out and unpacked in advance -- and probably not even then.
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Why not, I allow 30 minutes to do it on the 182 and generally beat that by 5 or 10 minutes. Of COURSE, if the jack is across town and the tires/tubes are packed in triple packing with steel bands and nylon braid tape it is going to take longer.

YEs, of COURSE with everything taken out and unpacked in advance. That is a variable that nobody can control.

Paperwork? We don't need no steenking paperwork.


Thanks,

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
Just a heads-up. We used to recommend talcum powder for the "lubricant" for the tubes. Talc is now on the "cancer" list. Talc is about the same thing as diatomaceous earth and asbestos powder for cutting your lungs apart if you breath it in.

Just a heads-up for y'all..

Jim
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Yer in California - the list of things which don't cause cancer there is shorter than the list of things which do.
 
weirdjim said:
Just a heads-up. We used to recommend talcum powder for the "lubricant" for the tubes. Talc is now on the "cancer" list. Talc is about the same thing as diatomaceous earth and asbestos powder for cutting your lungs apart if you breath it in.

Just a heads-up for y'all..
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Well, just use the stuff in the pouch that comes from Desser with your tube and tire, whatever hit happens to be. You wouldn't like what happens if you don't.
 
Will the mechs usually have a problem if I bring my own parts? I know that if I went to a car dealer with all my own parts, they would be inclined turn down the job because they make money on the parts. If I show up with tires and tubes are they going to be jaded?
 
weirdjim said:
YEs, of COURSE with everything taken out and unpacked in advance. That is a variable that nobody can control.

Jim
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But it is additive to the process and the mechanic has to charge for it. The jack is over there, the tube and tire are in a box in the car trunk, the roll-away with the tools is against the back hangar wall, and the talc, where is that &^!#!! container of talc?

Besides, the tire bead is inevitably well stuck to the wheel half, so now you're down to cussing and jumping up and down on the thing. Unless you spent the bucks for a bead breaker, which is under the workbench buried under a pile of old generators and starters.

This is the real world.
 
Unit74 said:
Will the mechs usually have a problem if I bring my own parts? I know that if I went to a car dealer with all my own parts, they would be inclined turn down the job because they make money on the parts. If I show up with tires and tubes are they going to be jaded?
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This is how we did in the auto business (and I wouldn't do it any different while exercising my A&P)

  • You buy parts and labor from us, have a warranty issue, drop it off its fixed - end of story.
  • You buy only labor from us, have a warranty issue, drop it off its fixed, we bill you for labor and give you your old part and you deal with warranty claim

Honestly, these days the way people act I don't think I would install someone else's part, else they claim your labor caused the warranty issue. The people just end up wasting a whole bunch of your time when you barely made any money off of them in the first place. One place I worked billed labor at 1.5 times normal rate when you brought your own parts just for this reason. They usually self diagnosed incorrectly and try to blame you. At the end of the day it just isn't worth it.
 
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The original poster said that the wheel pants was a 30 minute item on his plane which left 2.5 hours for the tire change.

The procedure for the Navion.

You need: A few wrenches, needle nose pliers, air tank, two reasonable friends, a 4x4

1. Have two of the guys crouch under the wing and push upward with their backs.
2. Shove the 4x4 under the gear leg.
3. Tell the guys to relax and if they stick around until you finish you'll buy them a beer
4. Unbolt the break caliper
5. Pull the cotter pin retaining the wheel nut.
6. Unscrew the wheel nut.
7. Pull of the tire.
8. Unbolt the wheel halves (the tire is already flat at this pont).
9. Fit the new tire tube.
10. Reasemble the wheel.
11 Remount the wheel, secure nut
12. Remount the brake caliper
13. Have the guys lift the wing again.
14. Kick the 4x4 out of the way
15. Top off the tire to the recommended pressure.
16. Order the beers all around and sign the log book while consuming.
 
It's always easy to tell who has worked flat rate and who has worked hourly. :rofl:
 
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