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Discussion in 'Cleared for the Approach' started by lancie00, May 22, 2019.
Ya, should have left the iPad in the car, I guess. I didn't bring one.
As @Jamie696 noted, examiners prefer to see you do things the way you would in real life. It’s probably also in your best interest to do things the way you normally would.
I’ve never understood why people get so wrapped around the axle about not demonstrating reality on a checkride.
I had a DPE that was known to "fail" iPads mid check ride.
So I preempted that by doing the oral 100% on paper and had current charts, plates, Chart Supplement...and that went with me in the plane and placed within reach for the practical.
Used the iPad the whole check ride without a lick of paper and he did not fail it once without even a backup discussion.
EFB's are a part of every day flying in this day and age and most DPE's want to see you fly like you will be in the real world. Proficiency is being able to utilize all the resources at your disposal.
That was high tech compared to my CFII checkride. I did it in a Tomahawk with 1 Nav/com and a DME.
It is prudent to have backups. Even if you only fly with only paper charts/maps.
There was a pilot on another message board who was telling a funny story of when his paper chart started leaving the aircraft through a small gap between the door and the fuselage "like an old fashion teletype machine"
He was just starting the approach when his paper map started to disappear. Lucky for him the part that he needed was still in the airplane when he realized what was happening.
My guess is that the biggest concern with paper charts/maps is that the one chart you might need, might not be in the aircraft, when you need it (wrong chart/map in flight bag, chart/map accidentally left at the fbo near the coffee pot, chart/map expired etc.)
I echo the above comments and do what you do on your check ride what you should do in real life. I have two iPads and a backup iPhone all loaded and up to date with charts and maps from ForeFlight. An up to date Garmin data base and a 3 year old VFR Map (for my passengers wink, wink)
Anything can happen, remember, "Fate laughs at Probabilities" from Edward George Earl Bulwer-Lytton
I know they can, whether they will or not depends on the DPE. If you rely on it too much they probably will.
I heard a story once about a kid on his IR checkride. He had his iPad so the DPE failed it, he pulled another one out of his back, DPE failed it again, so he pulled a third out and the DPE gave up and let him keep it. Maybe plan something like that? Haha
No, don't do that. I for one liked the flying pig analogy. Plus, I like your avatar, one of my favorite movies.
I also used my iPad. The DPE wanted to know how I'd deal with a failure (I carry a backup iPad for charts). He didn't "fail" it in any way, but I was not relying on it for any primary nav.
My CFI said he showed DPE a backup iPad and iPhone (both loaded with the proper stuff), and that particular DPE was satisfied.
Now this is what I keep hearing. Fly your check ride like it's the real thing. Use all of the tools at your disposal. Don't try and impress the DPE by doing things because you think he wants to see it that way. Just fly like you normally would.
If I could go back I would. During my training my flight instructor was apparently doing me a disservice by failing the iPad and 430 so I was afraid the DPE would to. My iPad wasn’t on and I didn’t even use the 430 to shoot an ILS approach, I used my secondary radio and indicator. That’s what he was truly angry about. The 430 was zoomed out to outer space not tuned in and doing me no good whatsoever. I explained why, he couldn’t believe it. AHRS from the Stratus would have been nice during the gyro failure which is a great tool to use during an emergency as well. Old school works but embrace the modern technology and use it during your checkride, they want you to.
keep your phone in your pocket... Dude says your gps failed, your ipad failed, and your iphone failed. Your next move should probably be landing somewhere because there is a major issue. The one time last year I brought a paper plate, it went out the window on accident.
The thing about check rides is, if it's in the plane, it's fair game. Fair for you to use it, fair for the examiner to require you to use it, and fair for him to fail it.
If I was the examiner and you appeared confident and knowledgeable to my questions, I doubt I would fail it.
But if I felt the need, or desire to fail it, and you pulled out 2 ipads and a then a phone, I'd say, Looks like your APPLE account has just been hacked and you can't use any of your devices until you contact them.
All he want's to know is that you're safe to fly by having a thorough understanding of all the equipment and all of your options. If he fails the iPad, it's because he wants to see you accomplish the assigned task by some other means. Simple as that.
I was allowed to use my iPad for the approach plates, and I carried a spare iPad as backup. He didn't fail anything (well except for the no-gyro approach, unusual attitudes, etc.)
I think that is a valid training exercise. Maybe he wanted to assure himself that you could do that without the aid of geo-referenced plates and GPS before sending you on a checkride. Its sort of like teaching primary students to manually calculate flight plans and time/distance/wind correction etc... No one does that manually anymore but it ensures that students understand how all that works, so you can understand what's going on inside the ipad/efb when its making those calculations for you.
I will say that most DPE's do want to see you use an ipad and an EFB software and they want to see that you know how to use it, as well as the equipment installed in the airplane. But you better have an answer as to what you are going to do if your ipad fails.
Is the only correct answer.
My personal preference is to go through training without the iPad. That way, I am very well versed and feel very comfortable flying if it fails. Once I pass the checkride, then I pull out the gadgets and enhance my capabilities further with them. I think it also makes it easier; for the test I only have to learn how to do it with paper, not both paper and the gadgets. Then I can focus on learning how to use the gadgets well after I already know how to fly safely.
B. If iDevices fail, switch to Aera 660.
C. If 660 fails, (assuming) IFR, continue with certified gps, however I will need atc help with appropriate info (VORs and ILS frequencies, altitudes, etc)
D. If gps fails, continue using backup com and VOR navigation.
E. If complete failure, no radio or navigation, go where I think the weather is best and hopefully VFR.