FADEC is 1980s Technology

[Henning]

Which line would you be about if you operated a manufacturing business?

Best quality product. I find that if you build the quality people will pay the extra required. I may not make the greatest profit but I make enough for comfort and I'm proud of what I produce. I've been fabricating in garage shops since the 7th grade. That's the difference between small business and big business ethic.

 

[JHW]

So - your wife has a boat, with a small block V8, which she lets you work on. Then, you slowed it down for her cause it wouldn't start well.

yep. when the kids want to go tubing and the boat won't start, ain't nobody happy. When the girls aren't happy I don't get much fishing done.

 

[Henning]

yep. when the kids want to go tubing and the boat won't start, ain't nobody happy. When the girls aren't happy I don't get much fishing done.

You already have ports that can accept the O2 sensors and if for some reason they don't a set of risers that do are $200; risers and manifolds are life limit items anyway.

 

[JHW]

Best quality product.

too simplistic. The moon rover was the best quality automobile ever created. How many cars do you think ford could sell at that price here on earth ?

whether you're talking about fishing reels, aircraft magnetos, or cardiac defribillators, there is a point that the product is "good enough". Nothing is as good as it could possibly be or it would never make it to market.

 

[JHW]

You already have ports that can accept the O2 sensors and if for some reason they don't a set of risers that do are $200; risers and manifolds are life limit items anyway.

nope, no such animal. And at 50 hrs per year there is no life limit on anything before the transom rots out

 

[spiderweb]

My engines didn't have that checklist. Pump on to peak flow, then off. Start on second or third blade every time.

You have a better checklist than the many I've seen for Cessna singles.

 

[spiderweb]

Yes depending on temp. Here's my procedure hot or cold on both mine they start in two blades every time except once it was -20 and I didn't give it enough and gave it 20 more after I let the heat from the chuff soak in a bit.

Full forward quadrant, eyes on fuel pressure, high boost on pressure rises and stabilizes on full pressure and 1 2 3 4 5 off. Throttle back to between two and 4 depending on temp, mixture back to 4.5 where I taxi and hit the starter with hand on throttle ready to retard as she comes up. Repeat on right.

I think the problem isn't the engines, of course--it is the training. If a checklist says a cold start should a count to 5 while priming, how fast does the student or renter count? I see so much flooding at various airports, I can only conclude they're county reeeeeeeeeeeealy slowly.

 

[wabower]

I started wondering how I learned to start them and concluded I probably just copied the guy I bought it from since he said it had worked flawlessly for him.
He probably had a written checklist but at this point I don't remember.

Anyway, I just referred to 1964 factory checklist, only to find that it bears no resemblance to the procedure most of us use now.

You have a better checklist than the many I've seen for Cessna singles.

 

[peppy]

And if they did match... Would you pay the extra cost for a computer system that did no better than you could? Matching isn't beating. So you're paying extra for easier starting.

There is one SR22 flying with the Continental system. COPA members did a fly off and the FADEC matched for cruise speed and cruise fuel flow compared to the best manual leaning.

The problem is cost, complexity, and weight. A lot of the design effort is to try to get close to the redundancy you have with dual magnetos.

As you said, matching isn't betting. I do think you save some since few pilots fly their plane precisely leaned in all phases of flight. Hot start is wonderful having personally witnessed it. I do believe one day pilots will look back on us like we look back on someone pumping the gas pedal while playing with the annual choke.

 

[Henning]

I think the problem isn't the engines, of course--it is the training. If a checklist says a cold start should a count to 5 while priming, how fast does the student or renter count? I see so much flooding at various airports, I can only conclude they're county reeeeeeeeeeeealy slowly.

I count slow, full seconds.

 

[Ted]

As you said, matching isn't betting. I do think you save some since few pilots fly their plane precisely leaned in all phases of flight. Hot start is wonderful having personally witnessed it. I do believe one day pilots will look back on us like we look back on someone pumping the gas pedal while playing with the annual choke.

The starts are wonderful with computer control, no doubt.

Remember that the automotive industry ultimately went to electronic controls for emissions purposes. There were many side benefits, but it was something that was somewhat forced, or at least helped along. Aviation doesn't have that same forcing function.

The other issue is that, to make it viable, the fleet needs to convert all engines going out the door eventually. There are some FAA issues there, which makes it harder. Plus, since a full calibration is required for each engine model (although you could probably get away with around 5-10), that makes it harder.

 

[spiderweb]

I count slow, full seconds.

They must be counting minutes.

 

[Henning]

They must be counting minutes.

Seriously, these are big bore engines. I know people who think they're flooding when they haven't begun to prime yet, you can pour a lot of fuel hot or cold and have em start right up. Remember the Ford wagon with the 460 that mom had to pump the gas pedal 10 times in the winter to get it to start?

 

[spiderweb]

Seriously, these are big bore engines. I know people who think they're flooding when they haven't begun to prime yet, you can pour a lot of fuel hot or cold and have em start right up. Remember the Ford wagon with the 460 that mom had to pump the gas pedal 10 times in the winter to get it to start?

Wow, now that you mention it, I do!