Fabulous letter to the editor WSJ

wsuffa

wsuffa

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
23,615
Location
DC Suburbs
Display Name
Bill S.
Home Airfield
KHEF
I don't know whether a subscription is required to read this or not, but it's well worth the read for those that can:

Link

When Meigs Field is restored, businesses will know that it's safe once more to come to Chicago for business.
Click to expand...
 
A letter certain to be ignored. :nonod:
 
I found the article interesting since I've worked the technical side of trade shows for ten years now. I've done shows in San Fran, Vegas, Chicago, Orlando, Denver, Orange County, CA, D.C. and Philly.

The easiest folks to work with are Vegas and Orlando. The hardest by far are Chicago and Philly. Philly was probably the worst with Chicago a close second. I know our exhibitor company hated either spot.
 
EppyGA said:
I found the article interesting since I've worked the technical side of trade shows for ten years now. I've done shows in San Fran, Vegas, Chicago, Orlando, Denver, Orange County, CA, D.C. and Philly.

The easiest folks to work with are Vegas and Orlando. The hardest by far are Chicago and Philly. Philly was probably the worst with Chicago a close second. I know our exhibitor company hated either spot.
Click to expand...


Which "folks"? City administrators? Tourism board folks? Someone else?
 
Great letter.

---

I worked a few trade shows - my favorite moment was when I got grieved by a Shop Steward for the sign and craft workers' union in San Francisco; I peeled off a piece of adhesive tape backer to put a piece of velcro onto a poster. Apparently, I was supposed to have paid the thirty-minute minimum for the (drunk and stinking of wine) journeyman to peel off the backing and stick the velcro onto the foam-core sign.
 
The unions control the arenas in many places. It's impossible to get anything done, and they let you know real quick you don't want to plug in your own projector or whatever else you're using at the show. If you tell them to take a hike and do it yourself, you'd best be there for just one day, or take everything with you at the end of the day.

TangoWhiskey said:
Which "folks"? City administrators? Tourism board folks? Someone else?
Click to expand...
 
EppyGA said:
I found the article interesting since I've worked the technical side of trade shows for ten years now. I've done shows in San Fran, Vegas, Chicago, Orlando, Denver, Orange County, CA, D.C. and Philly.

The easiest folks to work with are Vegas and Orlando. The hardest by far are Chicago and Philly. Philly was probably the worst with Chicago a close second. I know our exhibitor company hated either spot.
Click to expand...

Union folks in Philly and chicago won't let you screw in a lightbulb or plug in a fan unless a union guy does it for you for an outrageous price.
 
wabower said:
The unions control the arenas in many places. It's impossible to get anything done, and they let you know real quick you don't want to plug in your own projector or whatever else you're using at the show. If you tell them to take a hike and do it yourself, you'd best be there for just one day, or take everything with you at the end of the day.
Click to expand...

AdamZ said:
Union folks in Philly and chicago won't let you screw in a lightbulb or plug in a fan unless a union guy does it for you for an outrageous price.
Click to expand...

OK, it can now be told.

At Bell & Howell, COM Products division, we had an answer for that. It was called, the "trade show switch," and it was a switch inside the covers of the unit which killed all AC power. That way, we did not have to pay an IBEW Journeyman to sit and plug in, and unplug, the power plug, while we did setup and alignment.
 
wabower said:
The unions control the arenas in many places. It's impossible to get anything done, and they let you know real quick you don't want to plug in your own projector or whatever else you're using at the show. If you tell them to take a hike and do it yourself, you'd best be there for just one day, or take everything with you at the end of the day.
Click to expand...

I ran into this in Columbus Oh about twenty years ago. The union wanted to carry our brief cases in for us. It would only cost us $100.00. We told them to take a hike. The next morning we had several thousands of dollars worth of equipment missing. Even though they had security in this place all night nobody saw a thing.
 
Paul Allen said:
I ran into this in Columbus Oh about twenty years ago. The union wanted to carry our brief cases in for us. It would only cost us $100.00. We told them to take a hike. The next morning we had several thousands of dollars worth of equipment missing. Even though they had security in this place all night nobody saw a thing.
Click to expand...
Sounds more like you had the mob there and not a union. A common problem in just about every big city I have been in around the globe is organized crime not labor. But as can be seen in this thread it is far easier for people to blame an entire movement on ideological grounds than to actually worry about facts and truth. I wonder how happy the average anti-union employee would be had the labor movement of the last century not happened?

Would people be willing to give up their benefits and go back to the John Upton documented work styles that were so prevalent prior to labor organizing itself? My guess is no, but because there are some bad people, they condemn everyone involved in unions. I guess that phenomenon is not unlike those that wish to kill general aviation as it is nothing but a bunch a 'rich pilots' flying around. IOW broad over generations say more about the people making them than they do about the group they are being made about. I heard much the same thing last night at a dinner party I was at. It gets old.

Chicago is losing conventions for a bunch of mismanaged reasons. Labor costs are one, but not all the labor at convention centers is union. The simple fact is it costs lot to live in Chicago so things cost more. The other big issue is that O'Hare IAP is a royal PIA for people coming and going. Only because of the economic downturn and FAA limits on flights is it not super bad these days. But the lessons were learned by traveler, avoid O'Hare! It is too crowded, too many weather delays, and too far from downtown with a lousy public transport system. Lets also be honest about Chicago itself, it is not that nice of a city. The weather is awful, there is not that much to do that is unique, the convention centers are far from the downtown hotels which are way too expensive. As a person who goes to many large meetings around the world the costs all around, along with the value proposition, and the location are what is keeping people out of Chicago.
 
Last edited:
Labor costs are one, but not all the labor at convention centers is union
Click to expand...

Scott, any idea or data on what percentage of non-union labor is used to move conventions in and out, rig the gear, wire it and then move it back out?
 
smigaldi said:
Sounds more like you had the mob there and not a union. A common problem in just about every big city I have been in around the globe is organized crime not labor. But as can be seen in this thread it is far easier for people to blame an entire movement on ideological grounds than to actually worry about facts and truth. I wonder how happy the average anti-union employee would be had the labor movement of the last century not happened?
Click to expand...

It's often hard to tell the difference, at least in big Eastern cities.
 
Kelvin said:
Scott, any idea or data on what percentage of non-union labor is used to move conventions in and out, rig the gear, wire it and then move it back out?
Click to expand...

Well the specific single group you are asking about I am pretty sure it is 100% of the electricians are union. But that only represents one part of the labor pool there. BTW did you know that any union workers in the convention halls are barred from striking by law in Illinois? The unions have made many other concessions to their work rules to be more friendly to conventions that should exhibit.

But something that is not being discussed here, mostly I think because people really do not understand Chicago politics no matter what they think they do, is that there are serious issues with political appointees and the Chicago convention center. These non-union political appointed office are used for patronage jobs. That type of corruption along with the other types of extortion are a major culprit of the cost issues associated with holding conventions in Chicago. Patronage is the single biggest area of corruption in just about everyone of the Chicago government agencies.
 
When I was 18, I was in charge of my company's presence at the DECUS conference in LA, at the LACC. I was looking for our server crates, which had over 60k of equipment in each crate. The loading dock and booth setup were union, but computer equipment was nonunion. Our equipment had been delivered 48 hours before, and the loading dock was in an open access area.

I went and grabbed out crates, oblivious to the union rules. 3 crates of servers were 'repossesssed' until we paid the $100 per crate delivery fee (cash only).
What a nightmare!

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
flyersfan31 said:
It's often hard to tell the difference, at least in big Eastern cities.
Click to expand...
That's the real problem. You get these entrenched bad guys who figured out how to extort fees. But we idolize them in movies and TV instead of really trying to get to the root cause. Part of the reason it is so hard to get to the root corruption issue is that the people involved in organized crime are also well connected with the police, political, and legal systems in big cities.
 
smigaldi said:
<SNIP>

Chicago is losing conventions for a bunch of mismanaged reasons. Labor costs are one, but not all the labor at convention centers is union. The simple fact is it costs lot to live in Chicago so things cost more. The other big issue is that O'Hare IAP is a royal PIA for people coming and going. Only because of the economic downturn and FAA limits on flights is it not super bad these days. But the lessons were learned by traveler, avoid O'Hare! It is too crowded, too many weather delays, and too far from downtown with a lousy public transport system. Lets also be honest about Chicago itself, it is not that nice of a city. The weather is awful, there is not that much to do that is unique, the convention centers are far from the downtown hotels which are way too expensive. As a person who goes to many large meetings around the world the costs all around, along with the value proposition, and the location are what is keeping people out of Chicago.
Click to expand...
The two worst cities for lab equipment conventions were San Francisco and New Orleans...

At San Fran, we had a a fat guy on a tricycle claim he was from the union and if we took more than 15 minutes or one person to set up out booth, he had to hire his people. We said "sure...we will"...let him pedal off, and did our work.

In New Orleans (pre-Katrina), we rented a booth, including assembly. The union people wouldn't let our booth vendor set up...a deal was worked out where the booth owner told our people what needed to be done, and we would tell the NOLA people what to do...even though they were all standing together. Post Katrina- NOLA people seemed very helpful (this is why I said "were" in the first paragraph).

As for Chicago, I pretty much agree with what you said. If I'm not in a group, I'll take the train to my hotel and get there in reasonable time. Cabs seem to get stuck in traffic. I always wondered why the hotels were by the river...and the CC was near Meigs. Larger conventions (Pittsburgh Confererance and American Chemical Society for me), they run busses on a special road that parallels the train so it becomes reasonably convenient. As for the weather at O'Hare...it often takes more time flying between Lincoln and ORD than it does driving due to delays and cancellations. Unfortunately, GA would take at least as long (VFR, at least).
 
smigaldi said:
...

But as can be seen in this thread it is far easier for people to blame an entire movement on ideological grounds than to actually worry about facts and truth...
Click to expand...

Scott:

He'p me out here-

How did you get "blam[ing] an entire movement" out of the description of a couple of anecdotal experiences, with no broad-brush censure of unions therein contained?

Are you contending that the stories told are false ("facts and truth")? Mine were precisely factual. I recited my experience with two events.

Methinks you doth protest too much.
 
Last edited:
SCCutler said:
Scott:

He'p me out here-

How did you get "blam[ing] an entire movement" out of the description of a couple of anecdotal experiences, with no broad-brush censure of unions therein contained?

Are you contending that the stories told are false ("facts and truth")? Mine were precisely factual. I recited my experience with two events.

Methinks you doth protest too much.
Click to expand...
See your PM
 
smigaldi said:
Lets also be honest about Chicago itself, it is not that nice of a city. The weather is awful, there is not that much to do that is unique, the convention centers are far from the downtown hotels which are way too expensive. As a person who goes to many large meetings around the world the costs all around, along with the value proposition, and the location are what is keeping people out of Chicago.
Click to expand...
I disagree. As someone who has had to spend time in a whole variety of cities, big and small, I think there are more things to do and see in Chicago than in many other places. A couple years ago we had at trip over one of the holidays (Memorial Day?) so the other pilot airlined his family in. We had a great time seeing all the sites. I've explored Chicago at various other times too. I can't speak about the politics or conventions, which I have no knowledge of, but I don't think you can say that there is not much to do from a tourist standpoint.
 
Everskyward said:
I disagree. As someone who has had to spend time in a whole variety of cities, big and small, I think there are more things to do and see in Chicago than in many other places. A couple years ago we had at trip over one of the holidays (Memorial Day?) so the other pilot airlined his family in. We had a great time seeing all the sites. I've explored Chicago at various other times too. I can't speak about the politics or conventions, which I have no knowledge of, but I don't think you can say that there is not much to do from a tourist standpoint.
Click to expand...
I said there is not that much to do that is UNIQUE. That is not saying that there is nothing to do.

As a person that lives in the Chicago area I can attest that I do not need to go downtown to do many things. Music, shows, museums abound outside of the city as well as inside. Same thing for shopping. There is very little in the main shopping areas that cannot be found elsewhere.

Like you I get to travel around, and I find that there are certainly nice things in Chicago, but it is not unlike a lot of big cities. There is certainly a homogenization of culture in all of our big cities.

But what is Chicago really known for?

The blues? Far more blues bars in Memphis than Chicago.
Pizza? Ok Chicago does have the greatest pizza but we can get that in suburbs.
Musuems? Chicago has a couple that are nice. The Art Institute is the shining stand out.
Opera and Orchestra? CSO is here, but far more assceible orchestras are in the 'burbs and just about ever major city has these. I think most people would be hard pressed to know the difference between the CSO and LASO.
Shopping? We have Macy's, but then who doesn't?

So what is unique in the city? Not much outside of a big reflective bean and a water tower that did not burn down.

One of the cool unique things that Chicago did have was Maxwell St. You see it in the movie the Blues Brothers. That is long gone. It was torn down for a convention center to be built on it. :rolleyes:
 
smigaldi said:
I said there is not that much to do that is UNIQUE. That is not saying that there is nothing to do.
Click to expand...
Well, there are more things to do IMHO than in... Denver for example. I always have a hard time coming up with something to do for people who are visiting.

smigaldi said:
Like you I get to travel around, and I find that there are certainly nice things in Chicago, but it is not unlike a lot of big cities. There is certainly a homogenization of culture in all of our big cities.
Click to expand...
I agree with that. There's even more of a homogenization of culture in the suburbs. Many times I can't tell what part of the country I am in by what is around.

smigaldi said:
But what is Chicago really known for?
Click to expand...
Wind? But I don't think Chicago is actually much windier than other places.

smigaldi said:
Musuems? Chicago has a couple that are nice. The Art Institute is the shining stand out.
Click to expand...
I like the Chicago museums including the Art Institute.
 
Paul Allen said:
I ran into this in Columbus Oh about twenty years ago. The union wanted to carry our brief cases in for us. It would only cost us $100.00. We told them to take a hike. The next morning we had several thousands of dollars worth of equipment missing. Even though they had security in this place all night nobody saw a thing.
Click to expand...

When I used to do the NAB trade show about 30 years ago we found a way to cause serious disinterest from the union goons, we put radioactive stickers on most of the equipment and they stayed away in droves. Probably wouldn't be a good idea these days though.
 
smigaldi said:
One of the cool unique things that Chicago did have was Maxwell St. You see it in the movie the Blues Brothers. That is long gone. It was torn down for a convention center to be built on it. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I always learn something new on POA. I'd never heard of Maxwell Street before this thread.

Interesting set of historical photos here.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top