Fabric Covered Airplanes

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evapilotaz

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What happens when fabric covered airplanes are not stored in a hanger and left in the Sun for extended periods of time? I'm thinking someday owning a Taylor Craft or something like it but not have access to a hanger right away. Keep in mind I'm in AZ.

Thanks.
 
The fabric deteriorates and won't pass the annual punch test at some point. It will then need to be recovered.
 
It won't last as long. How much less, well that depends.
 
Everyone is very quick to say that fabric airplanes will turn to dust if left outside but sometimes that's not the case. It all depends on what type of fabric and paint is on it and how well you take care of it. Modern fabric with aerothane type paint can actually do pretty well outside. The killers for fabric is moisture, contaminants and the sun. You can actually have a fabric airplane last quite some time if you fly it often (keep moisture from building) and wash and wax it a lot. Washing to keep contaminants out of paint and wax to help with UV protection. You could also get covers for it, however covers can sometimes do more damage than good as they can be abrasive to the surface.

If you have old fabric with dope or something that is more porous....that is a diff story.

There are fabric airplanes all over Alaska and other parts where hangars are hard to find and they do alright. Also....how much if your hangar going to be? Probably several hundred bucks a month. Modern fabric and paints can last 10 years outside easily if taken care of well vs 30+ if in a hangar. Lets say your hangar is 300 bucks (mine in FL would be 500)....after 10 years that's $36,000 in hangar costs alone which is most likely well more than the value of your aircraft and certainly enough to get it recovered.

So it is easy to just say "hangar it or it will be worthless"...but that is simply not the case. For some people they are buying an older fabric airplane because they are fun, cheap and maybe can't afford a newer aircraft....but a 300-500 hangar payment will easily push that over the edge of affordability. So at the end of the day the question is do you want to fly or not?
 
Yea I don't want to spend $300 - $500 on a hanger for an airplane that cost me less than $30K as an example. Maybe I should rethink this.

Thanks.
 
Geico266 said:
The fabric deteriorates and won't pass the annual punch test at some point. It will then need to be recovered.
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No, the paint will deteriorate and fade more quickly, but unless (and until) the silver UV blocking layer is compromised, the fabric itself will not deteriorate any faster. Until the finish layers peel and expose the fabric itself, it will be fine. Cosmetic is another issue. Same thing will happen to a metal Cessna that sits outside. Eventually (after decades), the paint will fade and eventually crack and peel. No different with a fabric airplane. The difference with metal is that the now bare aluminum will not deteriorate under the sun.

And as mentioned, punch tests apply only to old natural fiber fabric (grade A cotton), NOT "modern" polyester fabric.

15 years of paying $350/mo for a hangar is $63K. That would pay for a recover...and you'd still have $30K leftover. Hangars are a nicety, not a necessity. They don't necessarily make financial sense.

I see Gotime made most of this post redundant.
 
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I have heard as a rule of thumb to expect to replace fabric after ten years on the ramp or 20 in a hangar.
 
I cant speak for aircraft fabric directly but the OP said he was in AZ. The desert sun and heat is EXTREMELY abusive to just about everything that spends time in it. Living in the Southern CA desert area, and having lived in AZ in the past I can tell you that the sun kills things at an amazing rate here compared to most areas of the country. People who haven't lived in the desert often don't understand this. I would think that you would need to be quite a bit more vigilant with your cleaning / UV protection routine maintenance, but it sounds like that'll still be cheaper than a hangar in the long run.
 
It is most likely that any fabric covered airplane you buy today will have been upgraded by one of the STC's to recover with modern polyfiber such as Stits or Ceconite. Contrary to much of what you will hear this fabric is not affected by moisture, mold or mildew. As long as the uv coating and paint remain intact it will not be affected by the sun either.

In fact, the biggest problem you may run into with an aircraft of this sort is that it may not have been recovered for 20 or more years and although the fabric is still fine the tubing and other structures underneath may have issues. But the fabric itself, even outside, is not a problem. Might even be a savior if a good hail storm were to happen along.
 
Cessna 140's and Luscombes are probably in your price range as well and are all metal (C140 w/metalized wings).
 
Zeldman said:
Except in the summer.
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When they grow ginormous cabbages!!!

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Yum.....that would make one heluva coleslaw!
 
evapilotaz said:
What happens when fabric covered airplanes are not stored in a hanger and left in the Sun for extended periods of time? I'm thinking someday owning a Taylor Craft or something like it but not have access to a hanger right away. Keep in mind I'm in AZ.

Thanks.
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I've owned five fabric covered aircraft. Before you buy..... Take the inspection plates off the wings with the airplane in bright sunlight. Look up in the wings and it should be dark, no light showing. This means the silver coat was applied correctly to prevent uv damage. Ceconite or other modern covers are very susceptible to sunlight ....as in tied down outside without proper silver coat. The maul test is used to test these fabrics by anyone really familiar with these fabrics. If it tests over 46 to 50 it's fine. A hangar is a much better answer for a fabric airplane as they will grow old quickly outside in any conditions. It will cost about 20 grand to recover a t craft correctly, maybe more so a hangar is well with the trouble. A good fabric person can tell you quickly what shape it's in. The history since recover is very important. If it sat out for some time I'd forget it. That is if you want to recover a decent amount when you sell it. I was very careful who I purchased them from and how they were handled. I always did well when I sold. They were always hangared. Always. Bill pancake, a master of these type aircraft will take your call and is very savvy about fabric. He's won many awards at Oshkosh. I spoke with him often. Great guy. The last one I sold is a t craft. It's at stellar airport in Arizona in a hangar. See video " taylorcraft fun"
 
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Jimmy cooper said:
I've owned five fabric covered aircraft. Before you buy..... Take the inspection plates off the wings with the airplane in bright sunlight. Look up in the wings and it should be dark, no light showing. This means the silver coat was applied correctly to prevent uv damage. Ceconite or other modern covers are very susceptible to sunlight ....as in tied down outside without proper silver coat.
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The sunlight test isn't reliable unless one knows exactly what process was used on the airplane the last time it was covered. Superflite, for example, uses a UV barrier that admits visible light, making the inside of the fuselage or wing look like daylight, but the ultraviolet light that does the damage doesn't get through.

Don't ask me how it works. Must have chemistry similar to sunscreen goop.

Dan
 
I have no knowledge of super flight fabric. Mine were all ceconite. Sunlight seen thu ceconite is not the best situation. In a hangar it will last a long time. However, don't trust the internet. Contact someone like bill pancake. The logs will tell you exactly what was used. If they don't.....don't buy it. You won't see a fabric aircraft of quality left outside unless it's run out or out in the boonies.
 
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20k to cover an airplane? Woof. Have some fun and do it yourself.
 
Some of our older Maules are pushing 20 years sitting outside under a shade hanger. The fabric on those has held up quite nicely besides the patches from student abuse.

The big issue isn't the fabric itself but the seams. The seam reinforcements have been redone a few times by the mechanics. The seams have a tendency to zipper undone once you get an opening larger then about 2" on a horizontal surface or about 4" on a vertical.

The school is recovering two older ones this fall during our aircraft updates.
 
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PA-11 said:
20k to cover an airplane? Woof. Have some fun and do it yourself.
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You're PA 12 would be more in the $30,000 range for a quality fabric and paint job. Notice I said "quality". You might get a mediocre job for $20,000 but it wouldn't be something I would want. With the newer materials a fabric job will go well over 30 years if kept in a hangar and 20 or more outside with a little care. The N3N I used to fly was done in Grade A and dope in 1974. I talked to the guy who has it now and he said it is holding up very well and he flies it regularly. Don
 
You will be told that you can't do a punch test on modern fabric, except that if you actually read the instructions for the STC for some systems (Polyfiber for example) it may say you can and tell you how.

Buy (or download) and read the manual for whatever system is on the airplane you are considering before you get serious.
 
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