FAA Suspension

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yogifly

Filing Flight Plan
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RetMil60pilot
Any working pilots, especially helo or 135 guys, please respond.

Just had my informal with the FAA, they are suspending my cert for 60 days. 30 days for wearing NVGs on a non certed (STC'd) aircraft and 30 days for flying with a cracked lense on a tail position light during the day/VFR. Despite good intentions on both cases and no safety issues, at the end of the day i did violate the regs. I know they have to hammer me, but I want to know if this is something I can recover from?

My question is can I recover as a professional pilot. I have no intention of hiding anything, just want toknow if iam honest and up front will companies still look at hiring me once the suspension is over? Iam retired military, 4000hrs and 18 months 135 (EMS) experience. Any comments, advice, help, would be appreciated. Thanks in advance
 
They're running them consecutively? Jeez -- what did you do to torque them off like that? I can see their concern over violating the NVG rules, as that can have really serious consequences, but 30 days for a cracked tail position light lens? :eek: Or was this, as your post suggests but doesn't say, in a 135 operation, where the FAA holds pilots to a much higher standard than Joe Pilot in his 172 on a weekend burger run?
 
Sorry to hear about this, thank you for your service.

Immediately, appeal the ruling to the next level and contact the FAA regional director. A cracked tail light? Really? :mad2:

I realize his is a helo and parts coming off are dangerous, but give me a break, and you need a break too. Contact the regional director and never give up. :no:

Grounding you serves no purpose. :nono:
 
yogifly said:
Any working pilots, especially helo or 135 guys, please respond.

Just had my informal with the FAA, they are suspending my cert for 60 days. 30 days for wearing NVGs on a non certed (STC'd) aircraft and 30 days for flying with a cracked lense on a tail position light during the day/VFR. Despite good intentions on both cases and no safety issues, at the end of the day i did violate the regs. I know they have to hammer me, but I want to know if this is something I can recover from?

My question is can I recover as a professional pilot. I have no intention of hiding anything, just want toknow if iam honest and up front will companies still look at hiring me once the suspension is over? Iam retired military, 4000hrs and 18 months 135 (EMS) experience. Any comments, advice, help, would be appreciated. Thanks in advance
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Looks like we both have had similar paths. I'm retired Hawk guy as well flying EMS. Send me a PM and we can talk. Only question I have for now is why has your company let a non-STC'd aircraft fly this long without being rectified? Obviously you're the PIC but the Certificate Holder has a greater responsibilty of complying with aircraft certifcation requirements than you do.
 
There MUST be more to this story. I can see where the NVGs if not certified for use in that aircraft COULD be a serious safety issue, but the cracked lens?

And I'd also assume that if you were on duty in a company aircraft that the company is undergoing similar scrutiny and possibly facing penalties on it's own?

Welcome to the board.
 
Just me thinking out loud here.

I don't know what the issue with NVG was, but suspect this is what started the whole thing, and probably not much you will be able to do about it. Appealing will delay the certificate action but it might be better to get it out of the way.

I would consider appealing the Cracked lens one, but again don't know the circumstances. However it occurs to me it might be better to have both suspensions rather than just the one. This one seems ridiculous enough that it may tone down any questions about the other one, I.e. if they got you for this ridiculous issue the other is probably ridiculous as well. Maybe this is the FAA's way of being generous to you.:)

In the end I would recommend appealing both. There is a good chance the FAA will counter with a better offer, it will likely still be a suspension but for perhaps only one or just for less time. I don't know of any reason why you can't withdraw the appeal later if they don't do anything.

My Opinion, in the long run it will probably have little effect on your career. While not ideal I think you have enough experience that if you are honest with employers most will understand and figure you are less likely to have an issue in the future now that you have a better idea how the system works.

my .02cents worth and maybe not even worth that.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
I think there was a CFI around here that said the FAA isn't out to get people. I wonder if he'll see this thread.
:popcorn:
 
I had no idea that a plane can't be flown with a cracked lens on a light.

The only thing I knew about lenses on lights is that the PHAK includes it in a list of simple tasks considered to be "preventive maintenance."
 
I don't believe the FAA is out to get people in general. I firmly believe that they are out to get specific people or operators who have caught their attention in a negative way.

There is a LOT of context missing here, and in a case of a violation and suspension, context is really important.
 
TMetzinger said:
I don't believe the FAA is out to get people in general. I firmly believe that they are out to get specific people or operators who have caught their attention in a negative way.

There is a LOT of context missing here, and in a case of a violation and suspension, context is really important.
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Tim, love ya, but you are dead wrong, or naive. The FAA is complaint driven. Someone drops a dime on you and they come after you based on what the person said, in my case anyway. Long story short, the ass hole FAA inspector that came after me got fired after I collected enough data on him and sent it to my congressman and the regional FAA director. If he was right he would NOT have been fired.

Give someone a badge, and the ability to enforce laws and they will get power drunk and take advantage of it. Every time. Guaranteed. Period.

Having an investigation by the regional FAA director chastising your work in your permenant record is the kiss of death for your FAA career. Don't put up with these little Hitlers enforcing BS rules. Fight Back! Get their supervisor involved, their boss, then the Regional FAA Director ...... And your congressman!!!!!! No I am NOT kidding. Get your congressman involved. You may only talk to a staffer, but they will be an advocate.

Don't let bullies win. Ever. Never, Ever. :no:


http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/arc/


Seriously, OP. If things are as you describe fight back. In the civilian world everyone is afraid of their boss. Use that to your advantage, and start at the top and work down. The "chain of command" is now broken. Start at the top and work down.


Illegitimi non carborundum.

Never let the bastards wear you down. ;)

Never, never, never, ever give up. Never.
 
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The math isn't adding up for me either. Something is missing.
 
TMetzinger said:
I don't believe the FAA is out to get people in general. I firmly believe that they are out to get specific people or operators who have caught their attention in a negative way.

There is a LOT of context missing here, and in a case of a violation and suspension, context is really important.
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+1... I agree. There is always more to the story.
 
Ron Levy said:
And if you don't have one already, get yourself a good aviation attorney ASAP.
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:yeahthat:

But DO NOT share this with them, no matter how well it fits the circumstance.

picture.php
 
That must be one hell of a nice aircraft if all they Could find was a cracked lens.
 
Don't forget about the Pilots Bill of Rights, recently passed into law.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Don't forget about the Pilots Bill of Rights, recently passed into law.
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The law was passed by congress for this very reason. Obviously, I don't know all the facts, but 9 times out of 10 the FAA investigators are vindictive little Hitlers.
 
Geico266 said:
The law was passed by congress for this very reason.
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I read that piece, and I don't see how it changes much of any significance.

Obviously, I don't know all the facts, but 9 times out of 10 the FAA investigators are vindictive little Hitlers.
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That may be your personal opinion, but I think it's unsupportable by facts.
 
Tom-D said:
they are out there


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W_42CGdgrw

But I would not lump them all into this groupe
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I'm not going to bother watching your youtube link, but I doubt if it includes a large enough sample to suppport the contention that 90% of FAA Inspectors are "vindictive little Hitlers." Personally, my experience over 40+ years of flying including interactions with FSDO's all over the country is that about 2% of FAA Inspectors are jerks (probably about the same or less than the general population), and the other 98% are good folks just trying to keep things safe.
 
Generally speaking, the letter of investigation and the informal hearing are only there to gather evidence; they're not there for you to talk your way out of the impending enforcement action.

Numerous pilots have suffered enforcement action after responding to a letter of investigation, simply because until the pilot responded and put himself in the aircraft, the FAA had no case. It's a fishing expedition.

Never underestimate the need for legal counsel early in the process. It's a little late to get an attorney now, but one should still be consulted.

Yes, FAA enforcement action will have an impact on your career; a potentially large impact. The cracked lens, no, but it's clear that this was only an excuse to expand on the enforcement action, as the FAA was after something else: the NVG use. It's also clear that we're not hearing an account of what happened.

Make sure that when you do consult an attorney, you're completely open and honest about the events which lead up to and followed the initial encounter with the FAA.
 
Velocity173 said:
Looks like we both have had similar paths. I'm retired Hawk guy as well flying EMS. Send me a PM and we can talk. Only question I have for now is why has your company let a non-STC'd aircraft fly this long without being rectified? Obviously you're the PIC but the Certificate Holder has a greater responsibilty of complying with aircraft certifcation requirements than you do.
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I was kinda wondering the same thing, were you using them counter your Ops manual? Is this personal gear or company gear? If they have qualified crew and an STC is available, Why don't they have it? Seems like a waste of skill and training.
 
All in all, I don't think they hit you hard. What does your employer have to say? Do you still have a job? If so I'd be inclined to take the hit like a man and show some character. If it was going to cost my job I'd first go plea for leniency and hardship on I'm suspecting a returning vet? If so you can do this with or without counsel; up to you I won't argue either way, but I'd contact my Senator and ask them to plea leniency for me, it's what they do.
 
Ron Levy said:
I'm not going to bother watching your youtube link, but I doubt if it includes a large enough sample to suppport the contention that 90% of FAA Inspectors are "vindictive little Hitlers." Personally, my experience over 40+ years of flying including interactions with FSDO's all over the country is that about 2% of FAA Inspectors are jerks (probably about the same or less than the general population), and the other 98% are good folks just trying to keep things safe.
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You really should watch it. The guy isn't necessarily a sample of the majority of FAA employees, but it only takes one of these guys to ruin your life. And they do get hired.

The guys behavior in that video is borderline sociopathic. I've seen it before.
 
denverpilot said:
You really should watch it. The guy isn't necessarily a sample of the majority of FAA employees, but it only takes one of these guys to ruin your life. And they do get hired.

The guys behavior in that video is borderline sociopathic. I've seen it before.
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There are TONS of LEOs out there like that, think how twisted of a sociopath you would have to be to land at the FAA; clue is they've been CAP since 16 and still are a Jr officer 8 years later. No armed force or LEO would take him, but the FAA is where a bureaucratic wienie can wield power like a God! Luckily they usually have a boss you can get to through a bit of passive resistance pretty painlessly though.
 
Thanks for all the great replies, In my case, the inspector recommended warning letters, it was his supervisor that wanted the suspensions. No clue why maybe two events in a short period. Sad part is, I filed ASAP & NASA reports for both. but the FAA says since these were "willful" violations, I get no protection. they would not have even known about the light without tghe ASAP report. Thanks again
 
denverpilot said:
You really should watch it. The guy isn't necessarily a sample of the majority of FAA employees, but it only takes one of these guys to ruin your life. And they do get hired.

The guys behavior in that video is borderline sociopathic. I've seen it before.
Click to expand...

I agree, just watched it now that I'm home. Railroad jobs do happen, but to claim them to be the norm...
 
yogifly said:
Thanks for all the great replies, In my case, the inspector recommended warning letters, it was his supervisor that wanted the suspensions. No clue why maybe two events in a short period. Sad part is, I filed ASAP & NASA reports for both. but the FAA says since these were "willful" violations, I get no protection. they would not have even known about the light without tghe ASAP report. Thanks again
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Sounds like a raw deal. Good luck with it all.

I would love to see what our resident inspector says about his supervisor overriding his recommendations. If the guy in the field says "warning" and the boss says "suspension", that sure ruins a lot of the posts where he's specifically said Inspectors don't have it out for anyone.

Sounds like the Inspector doesn't really have the final say in such matters, which leave the system and process open to the criticisms levied by folks that have triggered those posts in the past.

I wouldn't go as far as Henning to say the job necessarily attracts weenies any more than any other job. I know there's a bell curve and half the people you meet are on the left side of it... which means that when you run into someone with authority over you, you've got about a 50/50 shot of them having two brain cells to rub together...

All the more reason never to garner any attention at all, whenever possible. Because having to insert yourself into the "process" in any way means hiring some lawyer who also has about a 50/50 shot, but at least you get to choose, and they all think from dealing with the business world sized retainers and cases that you spending a year of your salary is chump change. How much work/service does anyone think they'll get out of any attorney for a dollar amount less than it takes to run the light bill at their office for a month?

So called "billable hours" be damned, you're going to get about 15 minutes of real thought if you're lucky, and then pay for a mountain of menial paperwork.

Maybe one or two appearances via telephone before the ALJ. And you'll be bankrupt long before the "process" is complete.

But at this point, you're "there" already. Find an attorney and plan for fiscal pain worse than any other bill in your life. America is great. You get all the Justice you can afford.
 
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