FAA SAIB says get CO detector

jnmeade

jnmeade

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Jim Meade
The FAA recommends that you do the following:
1. To buy commercially available CO detectors listed in the report, costing from $175 to
$200.
2. Install the CO detector on the instrument panel.
3. To reduce occurrence of false alarms, set the lower alarm threshold to 35 parts per million
(PPM).
2
4. To detect leakage of gases into the cabin due to cracks in the exhaust system, conduct
engine run up tests with cabin heat on and use of hand-held CO detectors during 100 hour
and annual inspections.
5. Continue to inspect the complete engine exhaust system during 100 hour/annual
inspections and at inspection intervals recommended by the aircraft and engine
manufacturers in accordance with their applicable maintenance manual instructions

The electrochemical sensor-based CO detectors were found to
be most suitable for use in the GA environment.

SUBJ: Engine Exhaust (ATA code 78) and Carbon Monoxide Detectors (ATA SAIB: CE-10-19
code 25) Date: March 10, 2010
 
jnmeade said:
The FAA recommends that you do the following:
1. To buy commercially available CO detectors listed in the report, costing from $175 to
$200.
2. Install the CO detector on the instrument panel.
3. To reduce occurrence of false alarms, set the lower alarm threshold to 35 parts per million
(PPM).
2
4. To detect leakage of gases into the cabin due to cracks in the exhaust system, conduct
engine run up tests with cabin heat on and use of hand-held CO detectors during 100 hour
and annual inspections.
5. Continue to inspect the complete engine exhaust system during 100 hour/annual
inspections and at inspection intervals recommended by the aircraft and engine
manufacturers in accordance with their applicable maintenance manual instructions

The electrochemical sensor-based CO detectors were found to
be most suitable for use in the GA environment.

SUBJ: Engine Exhaust (ATA code 78) and Carbon Monoxide Detectors (ATA SAIB: CE-10-19
code 25) Date: March 10, 2010
Click to expand...

The neglect to mention that it will probably cost $250-500 to get your $174 detector installed. For some reason they also completely ignored the possibility of a portable detector. Also FWIW I think that long term (2-4 hour) exposure to something slightly below 35 ppm can have serious effects in an airplane.
 
dmccormack said:
Not installed -- just sit somewhere...velcro
Click to expand...

Same issue. As far as the FAA is concerned, if it ain't certified it doesn't exist in a certified airplane. No way they're gonna recommend a device that doesn't come with their official paperwork.
 
dmccormack said:
And the $15 jobs from Home Depot won't work because...?
Click to expand...
...they are neither as accurate nor as reliable as the ones recommended. While I don't see the need for a $500 installed unit, you really do want at least one of the good portable units which run in the $100 ballpark. See http://www.avweb.com/news/aeromed/186016-1.html for some excellent information, as well as a few dozen other reasons to get one.
 
so, those little stick on circle ones that change color from Sportys are just cute?
 
Yes, Jeanie
Also, there has never been a recorded CO-caused crash while there was a household-type monitor on board. The 500$ are more accurate. But is knowing the exact ppm truly useful? If its blaring, that's enough, no one cares if its 100ppm or 300ppm.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Yes, Jeanie
Also, there has never been a recorded CO-caused crash while there was a household-type monitor on board. The 500$ are more accurate. But is knowing the exact ppm truly useful? If its blaring, that's enough, no one cares if its 100ppm or 300ppm.
Click to expand...


I think the article Ron referenced argued that the PPM thresholds may be below what may be incapacitating to a pilot at altitude.

I rarely exceed 3000' MSL and am strictly VFR in the Chief. So the $12 deal from Lowes sits on the back shelf.

For IFR flights, it may be worthwhile to investigate the more sensitive unit.
 
I think the article Ron referenced argued that the PPM thresholds may be below what may be incapacitating to a pilot at altitude.
Click to expand...

I suggest that most instances of CO exposure are from a decent leak in the exhaust, and significant levels in the cabin, rather than tiny or intermittent amounts that slightly reduce performance or cause mild nausea.

The main issue I have with people saying the less expensive units are nfg, and they must buy the high-dollar one is that many pilots are going to say, "If the cheap one doesn't work, forget it - I am not buying the expensive one." That would paradoxically end up causing more deaths.

If you want the precision, go for the 500$ unit.
But if you can't afford that, don't think the cheap ones are useless when they might save your life.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I suggest that most instances of CO exposure are from a decent leak in the exhaust, and significant levels in the cabin, rather than tiny or intermittent amounts that slightly reduce performance or cause mild nausea.

The main issue I have with people saying the less expensive units are nfg, and they must buy the high-dollar one is that many pilots are going to say, "If the cheap one doesn't work, forget it - I am not buying the expensive one." That would paradoxically end up causing more deaths.

If you want the precision, go for the 500$ unit.
But if you can't afford that, don't think the cheap ones are useless when they might save your life.
Click to expand...


I agree completely. Well said.
 
Did I miss national CO awareness day or something? I read the FAA recommendation in my e-mail the same day the news announced our governor just signed a law mandating CO detectors in all WI homes beginning in April 2011. And ironically this coming Monday I have to teach aeromedical factors in ground school, which will include a couple accident reports regarding CO. Thanks to the FAA letter I now have a third example. Here are the two I found last year:

C414 pilot confuses road for airport:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X21252&key=1

PA-24 winds up on a farm:
http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001208X09271&key=1
 
skyflyer8 said:
Did I miss national CO awareness day or something? I read the FAA recommendation in my e-mail the same day the news announced our governor just signed a law mandating CO detectors in all WI homes beginning in April 2011. And ironically this coming Monday I have to teach aeromedical factors in ground school, which will include a couple accident reports regarding CO. Thanks to the FAA letter I now have a third example. Here are the two I found last year:

C414 pilot confuses road for airport:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X21252&key=1

PA-24 winds up on a farm:
http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001208X09271&key=1
Click to expand...

Over a dozen accidents are listed in the article Mr. Levy cited:

Ron Levy said:
...they are neither as accurate nor as reliable as the ones recommended. While I don't see the need for a $500 installed unit, you really do want at least one of the good portable units which run in the $100 ballpark. See http://www.avweb.com/news/aeromed/186016-1.html for some excellent information, as well as a few dozen other reasons to get one.
Click to expand...

One more reason to run lean of peak...
 
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So do I need one of those things for may sailplane???? :D
 
The $15.00 Home Depot one sits on the floor on a velcro patch in the back. Perhaps a canary would suffice? The little tan patch thingy stuck on the panel has never changed color either.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
I've heard both Ron, and now Dave, say that they are "just cute". Maybe it depends on the one you get?

One of these saved my bacon. Here's the one I used, and another thread on this topic.
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Aviation Consumer tested both the old "Dead Stop" and newer "Quantum Eye" passive detectors a while back. They concluded that they do work but are not sensitive enough to warn if the CO level is much below 400-500 ppm while 100 ppm is sufficient to cause serious problems. IOW if you have a big exhaust leak they will change color (although it might take several minutes of exposure) but a small leak could result in impairment before any detection.

Edit: I misread the report. They actually said the Quantum Eye was far more sensitive than the Dead Stop and that it would warn at a level of 200 ppm in 7 minutes or less.
 
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Troy,
Not many would notice them changing color. I need something that physically blasts me out of my reverie.
That and you have to be ready to change them whenever they are dated/exposed......most folks can't keep up with them. Can't tell how many black ones I have seen stuck to panels over the years....getting past that human nature thing is best done with a device that sits there quietly, waiting, with a relatively long life span. (then all you have to worry about it battery and sensor life!).
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Troy,
Not many would notice them changing color. I need something that physically blasts me out of my reverie.
That and you have to be ready to change them whenever they are dated/exposed......most folks can't keep up with them. Can't tell how many black ones I have seen stuck to panels over the years....getting past that human nature thing is best done with a device that sits there quietly, waiting, with a relatively long life span. (then all you have to worry about it battery and sensor life!).
Click to expand...
We bought one for the plane a few years back and after awhile, it started beeping every few minutes to let us know its battery was low. We brought it home and left in the garage. It continued to beep in the garage for several months.
 
This post got me going. Since it was raining like heck yesterday (I was really looking for an excuse to go out to the plane), I went to Home Depot looked around and picked up a new model of the Kidde CO detector unit. It's a nighthawk model, small rounded rectangular shaped about 2.5" x 4" (I don't have the model # right now) with a backlighted numerical display in addition to the alarm and cost about $28.00. The digital display is the part I liked. I got some industrial strength velcro, and stuck it on my panel on the copilot's side just above the little storage box. Certified...no A little more peace of mind...yes. I'll get the model # and take a pic of it on the panel and post it here.

Edit: Stuck a picture of the CoDetector its a Kidde Model KN-COPPB-LS 900-0233. I also threw in a pic of my panel just because!

FYI: The number of CO detector models has sprouted like weeds in the local home stores ever since NY State's CO detector in homes law went into effect a few weeks ago.
 
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