FAA is starting to get the ball rolling on the Drivers License Medical

N918KT

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http://eaa.org/news/2014/2014-04-02...medical-certification-a-good-initial-step.asp


http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=76745


There is finally movement in the FAA to start a rulemaking process on replacing the 3rd class medical with a drivers license medical for certain private pilots. Hopefully student pilots and sport pilots wishing to upgrade to private pilot would be covered in this new proposed rulemaking.

Let's hope the FAA is in it for real this time and not delay this any further!
 
A year later they're
beginning a rulemaking project that will consider whether to allow private pilots, in certain instances, to substitute a driver’s license in lieu of a FAA medical certificate
That's agency-speak for we ain't doing jack. They're just trying to keep the Congress off their backs, and I hope to hell it doesn't work.
 
I agree with Steingar. I suspect the FAA sees this as a way to try to minimize the damage.

I've been watching this closely; as some of you know I had something happen last October that means I'll likely never see a medical certificate again. This feels an awful lot like the FAA thinking they better see about implementing what they see as the lesser evil (EAA/AOPA proposal, day VFR only, under 10K MSL, 180HP/4 seat max) versus having Congress cram a much bigger change (day/night VFR, 14K MSL, 6 seats, etc) down their throats. I'm sure the FAA would rather give up a little control over C-172 and RV-7 pilots than they would over Bonanza and even light twin pilots.

Either way I'm sure it's going to take at least a year or two. But either way I'm hosed for a year or two anyway. Either I resume building my RV-7, or pick up a Champ project I've been eyeing and start restoring it. Yeah, I suppose I could buy a flying Champ and be done with it, but I'm that oddball who wants electric start and an electrical system. And my darling wife, bless her terrified little heart, has made it clear that she will never fly in a 90 MPH tube & fabric airplane (but the 180 MPH RV is OK). They don't have to be logical, you know.

So. No flying at all for 2-3 years while I build an RV (and risk it all being wasted effort), or no flying for 1-2 years while I re-assemble and cover a Champ then fly it solo - which will of course guarantee a major medical rule change.

To think I waited 40 years to get a license for this. I haven't broken a hundred hours yet. After spending the past couple of months resigning myself to flying a Champ, now there's a glimmer of actual hope. Now I have to decide whether to continue or not - and it has to be an immediate choice, because I may have a buyer for my wings. Once they're gone, it's really too late for me to start all over from scratch.

So, I guess I need to call Van's this morning and see what the lead time is on a fuselage kit. Time to start bangin' rivets again.

Sigh. Sorry about the rant.
 
FAA to Congress: "I'm shakin' the bush boss, I'm shakin' it!"
 
FAA to Congress: "I'm shakin' the bush boss, I'm shakin' it!"
Bwa-haha. Although, given the characters in this little play a line from Dumb & Dumber might be more appropriate.
 
This feels an awful lot like the FAA thinking they better see about implementing what they see as the lesser evil (EAA/AOPA proposal, day VFR only, under 10K MSL, 180HP/4 seat max) versus having Congress cram a much bigger change (day/night VFR, 14K MSL, 6 seats, etc) down their throats

I thought AOPA never really presented that lesser proposal. I remember Dr. Bruce saying that Craig rejected it as "not enough" and decided to go all the way. He also said they would have gotten the lesser one approved.
In the end it might have been for the better that they went all the way.
 
I thought AOPA never really presented that lesser proposal. I remember Dr. Bruce saying that Craig rejected it as "not enough" and decided to go all the way. He also said they would have gotten the lesser one approved.
In the end it might have been for the better that they went all the way.
IIRC the proposal that Bruce said had a shot, and Craig Fuller rejected, was the CDL medical.
 
IIRC the proposal that Bruce said had a shot, and Craig Fuller rejected, was the CDL medical.

Yeap, that's the one I mean.
Do you know exactly what the proposal they presented was?. My understanding is that it was no 3rd class for Private Pilot (just DL, or maybe CDL but without all those restrictions).
 
Yeap, that's the one I mean.
Do you know exactly what the proposal they presented was?. My understanding is that it was no 3rd class for Private Pilot (just DL, or maybe CDL but without all those restrictions).

Basically DL for Recreational is what they submitted.
 
Dale, I just wanted to say that I hope you're wrong about never seeing a medical certificate again. Lots of pilots have gotten recertified with an SI after something like that, but of course the devil is all in the details. Hopefully in time you'll be able to jump through the hoops to PIC again, or else Congress will get the FAA out of our medical records for private light aircraft GA ops.
 
Dr. B's proposal was for just about all 3rd Class privileges, not just rec.

Are you sure you don't have them switched?

I did some search and found (searching for bbchien + craig brings a lot of results):
In the fall of 2010 we had federal suppor t(and I will not out this person) for just that: Super light sport on a State CDL. Y'know what Craig Fuller said? He said, "we can't do that. It doesn't look proactive enough".

So in short, I proposed that 3 years ago. 'So long, fuller! good riddance!".

Well, guess what. He got real far trying to demand an exemption for 35,000, huh?.
 
I agree with Steingar. I suspect the FAA sees this as a way to try to minimize the damage.

I've been watching this closely; as some of you know I had something happen last October that means I'll likely never see a medical certificate again. This feels an awful lot like the FAA thinking they better see about implementing what they see as the lesser evil (EAA/AOPA proposal, day VFR only, under 10K MSL, 180HP/4 seat max) versus having Congress cram a much bigger change (day/night VFR, 14K MSL, 6 seats, etc) down their throats. I'm sure the FAA would rather give up a little control over C-172 and RV-7 pilots than they would over Bonanza and even light twin pilots.

Either way I'm sure it's going to take at least a year or two. But either way I'm hosed for a year or two anyway. Either I resume building my RV-7, or pick up a Champ project I've been eyeing and start restoring it. Yeah, I suppose I could buy a flying Champ and be done with it, but I'm that oddball who wants electric start and an electrical system. And my darling wife, bless her terrified little heart, has made it clear that she will never fly in a 90 MPH tube & fabric airplane (but the 180 MPH RV is OK). They don't have to be logical, you know.

So. No flying at all for 2-3 years while I build an RV (and risk it all being wasted effort), or no flying for 1-2 years while I re-assemble and cover a Champ then fly it solo - which will of course guarantee a major medical rule change.

To think I waited 40 years to get a license for this. I haven't broken a hundred hours yet. After spending the past couple of months resigning myself to flying a Champ, now there's a glimmer of actual hope. Now I have to decide whether to continue or not - and it has to be an immediate choice, because I may have a buyer for my wings. Once they're gone, it's really too late for me to start all over from scratch.

So, I guess I need to call Van's this morning and see what the lead time is on a fuselage kit. Time to start bangin' rivets again.

Sigh. Sorry about the rant.

I feel your pain Dale. I too had an event in 2005 that has kept me from pursuing a medical. I have consulted with my AME and a company called left seat who specializes in getting hard to get medicals. Both the AME and left seat agree I could get a SI, but it would be EXPENSIVE, and for what? I am a CFII-MEI with 6k hours. The FAA says I can still teach at the same level to which I am certificated, I just can not assume PIC. This does restrict me a bit, but can still do BFR's, check outs, complex, tailwheel, etc. Most of my flying the last 5 or so years has been upset training in a citabria, with some basic acro tossed in for those that want it. I have even been out to King City and received some GREAT advanced training in acro from Ken at Tutima Academy (Sean Tucker's School) all after my little health episode. My personal health issue, while DQing in the eyes of the FAA has NO bearing on my being able to VERY SAFELY pilot a GA aircraft. So while I can continue to fly as an instructor, I can not act as PIC, makes perfect sense to me. At least I'm still flying, and still hoping!
 
Better to get out in front on the issue than be dragged in kicking and screaming . Starting the process does not mean it will be a spray process.
 
Well I hope that they don't intend to present a new rule with the recreational pilot cert in mind. I don't understand the point of tethering a pilot to 50 miles from a home airport. It's like a kid who can't take his bike off the driveway. There's a reason that RP isn't a successful program, and I don't think it's the medical. How long would you continue to be enthusiastic about flying if you couldn't explore the country?
 
Dale, I just wanted to say that I hope you're wrong about never seeing a medical certificate again. Lots of pilots have gotten recertified with an SI after something like that, but of course the devil is all in the details. Hopefully in time you'll be able to jump through the hoops to PIC again, or else Congress will get the FAA out of our medical records for private light aircraft GA ops.
Dr. Chien and another AME both tell me my chances of ever being certified are near zero. And, since there's a "death penalty" for trying and failing -- if you get denied, you're not flying at all -- I'm not going to risk going for that sliver of a chance. The more optimistic estimate was maybe a 5% chance, depending on who's on the FAA review panel and what kind of day they're having.
 
Well I hope that they don't intend to present a new rule with the recreational pilot cert in mind. I don't understand the point of tethering a pilot to 50 miles from a home airport. It's like a kid who can't take his bike off the driveway. There's a reason that RP isn't a successful program, and I don't think it's the medical. How long would you continue to be enthusiastic about flying if you couldn't explore the country?

The AOPA/EAA exemption proposal doesn't include a 50-mile limitation, and even for actual recreational pilots, the restrictions on cross-country flying can be removed with a logbook endorsement.

Anyway, I seriously doubt that any new driver's license medical system would restrict cross-country flying. There are no limits on cross-country flying for sport pilots, for example.
 
The actual petition was for recreational (as opposed to business) flying and had nothing to do with the recreational certificate.

AOPA/EAA Guide to the Medical Petition,
frequently asked questions

While it didn't mention "Recreational Pilot", the limitations were, effectively, lifed from the RP restrictions. (180 HP, 4 seats, 1 passenger)

Much like a PP exercising SP privileges doesn't need all the endorsements and such, the same thing with that petition
 
The actual petition was for recreational (as opposed to business) flying and had nothing to do with the recreational certificate.

AOPA/EAA Guide to the Medical Petition,
frequently asked questions

I see, thanks for the link.

So if that was the petition, I don't understand why Bruce was so ****ed about it. Isn't that what he proposed as well, under the name of "Super Sport Pilot" AKA "The Aussie proposal" (based on what the Australians got approved)?
It looks like the only difference between Craig and Bruce was that Bruce wanted a CDL instead of a regular DL (not saying he wanted that because it was his preference, but that's what he said had support to get approved).
 
There is only one word in that proposal that I have a problem with. If the word "day" were removed I'd be OK with it. Of course I like the version currently in committee in the House and Senate much better.
 
Iirc Bruce felt they could get it passed AOPA shot it down because it didn't look proactive enough. Funny I just got a 30 minute survey from AOPA asking why I'm not a member. Such clowns.
I see, thanks for the link.

So if that was the petition, I don't understand why Bruce was so ****ed about it. Isn't that what he proposed as well, under the name of "Super Sport Pilot" AKA "The Aussie proposal" (based on what the Australians got approved)?
It looks like the only difference between Craig and Bruce was that Bruce wanted a CDL instead of a regular DL (not saying he wanted that because it was his preference, but that's what he said had support to get approved).
 
Bruce was PO'd because the proposal from the AMEs was that same except instead of driver's license medical you're get a medical for a commercial driving certificate, which is state based, involves less paperwork and is easier. AOPA said no, all or nothing, and Bruce got ticked off.

Don't expect any action on this boys and girls. The missive from the FAA (we're starting to look at whether we should start to look at this) is nothing more than a stall. You'll see a similar missive (we've made significant progress in starting to look at whether we should start to look at this) on the annual anniversary of the first one, and after that my guess is they'll hope it all just goes away.

Keep the pressure up on your elected officials from Congress. They're the only ones who will provide some sanity and some blasted relief. Yeah, the FAA might try to forestall them and get some rules out at the last minute. But until that bill looks like its going to become law they won't do jack but put out bureaucratic nonsense about how they're studying the problem.
 
I'm going to let all three of my Congresscritters know that they should continue to push the legislation through regardless of what the FAA wants to try to look like it's doing -- or may do some day. Because yes, we know perfectly well that their default position will be to do nothing at all for as long as possible, and if forced do as little as possible.
 
Dr. Chien and another AME both tell me my chances of ever being certified are near zero. And, since there's a "death penalty" for trying and failing -- if you get denied, you're not flying at all -- I'm not going to risk going for that sliver of a chance. The more optimistic estimate was maybe a 5% chance, depending on who's on the FAA review panel and what kind of day they're having.
That really sucks Dale. :(

I imagine I'll stop being eligible for a med cert long before I'm too unhealthy to fly safely, and the same for most of us. Getting the FAA off our medical backs is a worthy cause.

FWIW I signed the EAA petition and emailed my senator and two congresscritters a couple of weeks ago in support of HR 3708 and the senate version. I never heard back from any of them. They're not on any of the aviation subcommittees, but still... :(
 
That really sucks Dale.
No argument there! All my own fault, of course. On the bright side, two cardiologists agree there's no reason I shouldn't be safe flying. Because there is now so much activity toward a change in the medical requirements, I have decided against buying a Champ project I was about to pick up, and resumed work on my RV-7.

Best case, by the time I finish the -7 we have a nice change and I'll be able to fly day/night VFR. Worst case, nothing changes; I sell the RV-7, buy a nice LSA and move on. Either way - I'm not done flying.
 
I agree with Steingar. I suspect the FAA sees this as a way to try to minimize the damage.

I've been watching this closely; as some of you know I had something happen last October that means I'll likely never see a medical certificate again. This feels an awful lot like the FAA thinking they better see about implementing what they see as the lesser evil (EAA/AOPA proposal, day VFR only, under 10K MSL, 180HP/4 seat max) versus having Congress cram a much bigger change (day/night VFR, 14K MSL, 6 seats, etc) down their throats. I'm sure the FAA would rather give up a little control over C-172 and RV-7 pilots than they would over Bonanza and even light twin pilots.

. . . .

And control is exactly what it's about, which is why the agency will never voluntarily implement any sort of DL / PPL privilege unless they see it as the lesser loss of power and control.

That's also why comparisons to the process that resulted in SP are irrelevant. SP gave FAA more control by taking fat ultralights out of Part 103 and bringing a lot of ultralight pilots and instructors under the agency's purview. It also, for all intents and purposes, grounded most of the fat ultralight fleet. Few of them got converted to E-LSA because even on the odd chance that their owners could find a DAR willing to sign off on them, the newly N-numbered aircraft would remain unusable for paid flight instruction.

The DL / PPL proposal, on the other hand, takes a little control out of FAA's grasp, and gives the agency nothing back in return. Whether we're talking about a DL, CDL, or a CDL medical, it would still take the medical aspect of a pilot's qualification out of FAA's control: And like all government agencies, FAA will fight tooth and nail against giving up control over anything.

My guess is that the most that might come of this would be a chubby version of SP: Single engine; MTOW of ~ 2,500 lbs; 4-seat limitation (provided that two remain empty); same operational and WX restrictions as SP; and sufficient regulatory Catch-22s to make it impossible for student pilots or present SPs to use the exemption to ever obtain a PPL.

If you think about it, FAA could easily change the present SP rule to increase the MTOW and seat restrictions to make 172s and the like flyable under SP rules, subject to some additional dual training and a CFI signoff. They have no interest in it. They won't even stretch the rule enough to bring C150s, C152s, and Super Cubs under the SP tent. Doing so would reduce the agency's control a tiny bit, while giving them nothing in return.

Considering the issue in that light, why on earth would anyone believe that FAA is interested in extending DL medical privileges to more pilots flying more aircraft? Clearly they aren't, else they would have done so already with regard to SP. If they do actually come up with an exemption at the PP level, it will be carefully crafted to give up as little control as possible, and only to prevent Congress from taking away even more.

-Rich
 
I asked in another thread once for arguments against the proposed DL medical and didn't get any valid arguments. Are there no members of the FAA on this board? There's a lot of talk about how the FAA doesn't want to give up control, but aren't there pilots in the FAA who also would like to see this rule changed?
 
I asked in another thread once for arguments against the proposed DL medical and didn't get any valid arguments. Are there no members of the FAA on this board? There's a lot of talk about how the FAA doesn't want to give up control, but aren't there pilots in the FAA who also would like to see this rule changed?

Yeah, I'm sure there are. But they tend not to be the ones running the joint.

I also suspect that some of the good folks in the Aeromedical Certification Branch who actually have to waste their time processing third-class SI's for pilots whose medical issues have been rendered easily correctable by modern medicine, or whose only DQing factor is that they were diagnosed with ADD by a school guidance counselor when they were in kindergarten, would also welcome the change.

But again, they tend not to be the ones running the joint.

-Rich
 
I asked in another thread once for arguments against the proposed DL medical and didn't get any valid arguments.
IIRC, you got several safety reasons why this might not be an good proposal, but chose to reject them. So please don't say you "didn't get any valid arguments", but instead say only that you disagreed with the arguments against.
 
The FAA is getting the ball rolling about as much I as I am planning my wedding.
 
IIRC, you got several safety reasons why this might not be an good proposal, but chose to reject them. So please don't say you "didn't get any valid arguments", but instead say only that you disagreed with the arguments against.

He got opinions, but no data to support those opinions.


The DL medical would significantly reduce the accidents due to medical issues because pilots would not need to be afraid to seek treatment for their medical issues.

There. We now have proof that this is a good idea? Or is it just another opinion not backed up by data? I could cite a specific example if that makes a difference.
 
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With speed of our government, any pilot over the age of 25 will never see this happen.
 
IIRC, you got several safety reasons why this might not be an good proposal, but chose to reject them. So please don't say you "didn't get any valid arguments", but instead say only that you disagreed with the arguments against.
Well, you made me go back and look through the whole thread. I stand corrected once again, sort of. There was one argument that there may be a condition of some sort that the pilot was unaware of and it would present itself in the air causing an accident, and that a 3rd class medical may have caught it before it became a problem. But I think that one of the pro points for the DL medical is that the history of the Sport category has shown this not to be true, invalidating that argument. The other comments were either said in jest or simply not germane.
 
Well, you made me go back and look through the whole thread. I stand corrected once again, sort of. There was one argument that there may be a condition of some sort that the pilot was unaware of and it would present itself in the air causing an accident, and that a 3rd class medical may have caught it before it became a problem. But I think that one of the pro points for the DL medical is that the history of the Sport category has shown this not to be true, invalidating that argument. The other comments were either said in jest or simply not germane.

There are points to be made on both sides. But I happen to know quite a few pilots who avoid doctors like the plague for fear of "officially" finding out that the symptoms they're experiencing really are symptoms of whatever grounding condition it is that they fear they might have. That's where the DL medical would, in my opinion, be advantageous to safety. It would encourage airmen to get treated for ailments before those problems progress to the point that the individuals are walking time bombs.

-Rich
 

What a self-serving tool. The danger he threatens of is simultaneously alarmist and necessarily vague. Specific counter examples of decades of glider, balloon, and ultralight pilots and several years of sport pilots exist to show that Class 3 yields no safety gains worthy of even modest costs to maintain. The FAA's own statistics claim only 0.1% of medicals are denied (http://www.faa.gov/news/safety_briefing/2013/media/MedicalInfoGraphic.pdf)
 
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