FAA Airmen Database Question

Jaybird180

Jaybird180

Final Approach
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Display name:
Jaybird180
Browsing FAA Airmen database I found something that I hope someone can offer some clarification

This airman has:
2nd class medical issued in 6/2002

FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR 8/2002
AIRPLANE SINGLE AND MULTIENGINE
INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE
Limits:
VALID ONLY WHEN ACCOMPANIED BY PILOT CERTIFICATE NO. . EXPIRES: 31 AUG 2004.


COMMERCIAL PILOT 5/2012
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND
INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE

The how did he get Flight Instructor without a Commercial? How did he get a Commercial in 2012 without a valid Medical?
 
The Commercial certificate date is probably the date of the last update to it, which is when he got "proficient in English".

Or, perhaps he lost and had to re-earn his pilot certificates but not his expired CFI certificate, due to an enforcement action.
 
It's nosyness like this that makes we wish the FAA would comply with the law and allow pilots to opt out of having their data shown.
 
Just losing the plastic card and requesting a replacement will get you a new issue date, so I've been told.
 
every time you update something on your pilot certificate you get a new date. I got my ATP in 96 but my current pilot certificate shows a November 2011 date. I added a type rating. A couple of years before I had the english proficient added. That changed the date as well.

On a CFI your day and mont stay the same but the year forwards by two years when you renew it.

You don't need a valid medical to make a change to your certificate.
 
Jaybird180 said:
The how did he get Flight Instructor without a Commercial? How did he get a Commercial in 2012 without a valid Medical?
Click to expand...

When the actual certificate is reissued for whatever reason, the issued date changes to the date that it was reissued.

The issue date changed on my certificate when I moved and requested a new one to reflect my new address, even though my certificates/ratings had been earned years prior.



JKG
 
In the spirit of absurdity, my paper certificate with the same rating was first issued in 1969 and my current shows 2012, but now English Proficient. :D

Cheers
 
LearDriver said:
every time you update something on your pilot certificate you get a new date. I got my ATP in 96 but my current pilot certificate shows a November 2011 date. I added a type rating. A couple of years before I had the english proficient added. That changed the date as well.

On a CFI your day and mont stay the same but the year forwards by two years when you renew it.

You don't need a valid medical to make a change to your certificate.
Click to expand...

He must have taken his English Proficiency Test then....
 
X3 Skier said:
In the spirit of absurdity, my paper certificate with the same rating was first issued in 1969 and my current shows 2012, but now English Proficient. :D

Cheers
Click to expand...

Congratulations on mastering the language
 
My original paper was in 1968 and the Inquiry page shows my latest as 2010 (when I becum learned to besprech coy in Anglitsch)
 
My first instructor certificate was a CFII, and I was a private pilot at the time.

But that was 1969, and now is now!
 
flyingron said:
It's nosyness like this that makes we wish the FAA would comply with the law and allow pilots to opt out of having their data shown.
Click to expand...

You can opt out. I received a letter a couple years ago informing me about it. I didn't care enough to do it. A friend got one too and chose to opt out. I just searched for him and he didn't show up, so it seems to work.

see the FAA website for details: http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/change_releasability/
 
\__[Ô]__/;963285 said:
You can opt out. I received a letter a couple years ago informing me about it. I didn't care enough to do it. A friend got one too and chose to opt out. I just searched for him and he didn't show up, so it seems to work.

see the FAA website for details: http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/change_releasability/
Click to expand...

NO YOU CAN NOT OPT OUT. Believe me I have been fighting this inane policy for over ten years. The FAA's will only delete your mailing address if you make that request. Did you even bother to READ the info on the page you listed above? My info actually did disappear for a few months but evidentially that was an error on their part rather than a policy change.

I've written the FAA and the DOT and congress about this. The FAA alternates from sending out the same disinformation to outright lying about the law here.

In fact they are supposed to let you avoid releasing ALL INFORMATION. In fact, they are not permitted to disseminate medical information either. Right now I can pretty much tell everybody in the country who is on a special inssuance. Martha King is for example. I don't mind invading her privacy because it was partially her disingenuous complaints that aviation safety would be jeopardizing if they didn't have free access to junk mail the pilot population that got the exemption to the privacy act to begin with.
 
flyingron said:
NO YOU CAN NOT OPT OUT. Believe me I have been fighting this inane policy for over ten years. The FAA's will only delete your mailing address if you make that request. Did you even bother to READ the info on the page you listed above? My info actually did disappear for a few months but evidentially that was an error on their part rather than a policy change.

I've written the FAA and the DOT and congress about this. The FAA alternates from sending out the same disinformation to outright lying about the law here.

In fact they are supposed to let you avoid releasing ALL INFORMATION. In fact, they are not permitted to disseminate medical information either. Right now I can pretty much tell everybody in the country who is on a special inssuance. Martha King is for example. I don't mind invading her privacy because it was partially her disingenuous complaints that aviation safety would be jeopardizing if they didn't have free access to junk mail the pilot population that got the exemption to the privacy act to begin with.
Click to expand...

Of course I read the info from the page, and they are supposed to block release of information about you if you request it.
My friend who opted out doesn't show up in the database of airmen you can download from the site. No information about him at all. So in that sense, the opt out works exactly as it's supposed to. However, I looked more into it. When I tried the search on the faa site, he didn't show up when i searched him by state (good). But he did show up when I left searched his name without the state (oops).

The downloadable database, which is what any mass marketer would use, does appear to obey the opt out. The online search doesn't (which I agree is not ok). Not sure if that's intentional or not.
 
flyingron said:
In fact they are supposed to let you avoid releasing ALL INFORMATION. In fact, they are not permitted to disseminate medical information either. Right now I can pretty much tell everybody in the country who is on a special inssuance. Martha King is for example. I don't mind invading her privacy because it was partially her disingenuous complaints that aviation safety would be jeopardizing if they didn't have free access to junk mail the pilot population that got the exemption to the privacy act to begin with.
Click to expand...

I can understand the concern and privacy issue surrounding medical certificate information. Those who operate in the healthcare industry are running in fear thanks to another piece of inane legislation, HIPAA, but I can search to find special issuance medicals, or who has medical restrictions, on the FAA's web site.

I'm not sure that pilot certificates and ratings are anywhere close to as sensitive, nor do I see nearly as much of a legitimate claim that making pilot certificate information public is a violation of personal privacy.



JKG
 
As soon as someone has a significant monetary loss from the FAA leaking their medical data, the lawsuit will be impressive and cost us all a lot of money.
 
denverpilot said:
As soon as someone has a significant monetary loss from the FAA leaking their medical data, the lawsuit will be impressive and cost us all a lot of money.
Click to expand...

Honestly, what's that going to be from the very limited medical data that's publicly available via the certificate search, and how would a claim be proven?

I suspect that the risk is very low, although it is certainly a bit unnerving that ANY medical information is publicly available.


JKG
 
JGoodish said:
Honestly, what's that going to be from the very limited medical data that's publicly available via the certificate search, and how would a claim be proven?

I suspect that the risk is very low, although it is certainly a bit unnerving that ANY medical information is publicly available.
Click to expand...

Denial of life insurance for a high muckey-muck would be a possibility, perhaps. Or loss/denial of a job when someone sees they have an SI. I can think of a few more.
 
Just found my barely used Student and Class III from February 2004. Looking forward to bumping that Student up to the next level in about a year or so.

SO many changes in my life over the last 8 years.
 
denverpilot said:
Denial of life insurance for a high muckey-muck would be a possibility, perhaps. Or loss/denial of a job when someone sees they have an SI. I can think of a few more.
Click to expand...

Regarding life insurance, in my experience, revealing your status is a pilot is a condition of coverage (and yes, the rates are ALWAYS higher). A physical exam was also a condition of coverage even back when I was in my late 20s/early 30s with no history of health issues.

Regarding employment, what kind of job are we talking about? If it's a pilot job, the medical situation is relevant to employment. If it's a non-pilot job, I'm not sure that there would be legal grounds to disqualify someone based on the fact that he or she has a SI, the nature of which is not revealed in the pilot database and, for most other employment, could be rather mundane. From what I can tell, the pilot database isn't even a reliable record of conditions or restrictions--a family member of mine has a medical that is conditionally limited in duration due to a health issue, but that is not revealed in the pilot database.

So again, on legal grounds, I think the risk is low. I know that you "can't un-ring a bell" if some unscrupulous non-aviation employer decides to investigate you on the pilot database, but quite frankly, I'd have to think hard about whether someone who would make a hiring decision based on unreliable and unverified information is really someone I'd want to be working for.


JKG
 
Last edited:
\__[Ô]__/;963349 said:
Of course I read the info from the page, and they are supposed to block release of information about you if you request it.
My friend who opted out doesn't show up in the database of airmen you can download from the site. No information about him at all. So in that sense, the opt out works exactly as it's supposed to. However, I looked more into it. When I tried the search on the faa site, he didn't show up when i searched him by state (good). But he did show up when I left searched his name without the state (oops).

The downloadable database, which is what any mass marketer would use, does appear to obey the opt out. The online search doesn't (which I agree is not ok). Not sure if that's intentional or not.
Click to expand...

I opt-ed out and do not show if you select my state. It seems that what they did was remove address information from the record (short-cut) and added an allowance for a blank state field in the database which is why addresses do not show. In the download list they simply exclude blank state from the .csv list. This is a poor-man's workaround the FAA has implemented for compliance.

I once knew a few people at FAA that worked on the tech side, but have not kept in touch with them and would struggle to remember the names. I'd have to talk to a friend who'd talk to a friend in order to regain those contacts.
 
JGoodish said:
What kind of job? If it's a pilot job, the medical situation is relevant to employment. If it's a non-pilot job, I'm not sure that there would be legal grounds to disqualify someone based on the fact that he or she has a SI, the nature of which is not revealed in the pilot database and, for most other employment, could be rather mundane. From what I can tell, the pilot database isn't even a reliable record of conditions or restrictions--a family member of mine has a medical that is conditionally limited in duration due to a health issue, but that is not revealed in the pilot database.

So again, on legal grounds, I think the risk is low. I know that you "can't un-ring a bell" if some unscrupulous non-aviation employer decides to investigate you on the pilot database, but quite frankly, I'd have to think hard about whether someone who would make a hiring decision based on unreliable and unverified information is really someone I'd want to be working for.


JKG
Click to expand...

Years ago, I was unknowing mixed up in a scandal at a nationwide retailer I worked for in my early 20's. District Manager was having an affair with a store manager under his purview....

I was a manager trainee and was sent to watch over a store when the manager there quit. This was to be short term, until a fully qualified manager was assigned.

Unbeknownst to me, he and I were the only ones that knew of our arrangement. The new store manager came in with his (house cleaning) agenda and th e DM was dealing with his woes (he was given an ultimatum that would transfer him to Florida as I heard through the grapevine).

I was fired with out an avenue of appeal. I filed for unemployment, starting an appeal record. The corporate office gave little fight :mad2: after presenting their side, which the administrative judge had evidence from me to contest. I won.:confused:

Years later, I reapplied to the retailer and was denied.

My point: adverse records have a way of following you, just or unjust.
 
Interesting learned from the .pdf that's included in the download is that there is a certification for FLIGHT ATTENDANT and,....

What is an AUTHORIZED AIRCRAFT INSTRUCTOR? (Hint, it has a different code from CFI)
 

Attachments

  • HelpComm.pdf
    63.6 KB · Views: 3
There's a nice piece of FEDERAL LAW called the privacy act that governs personal information in Federal databases. Public access to the FAA database operates under a specific exemption which the FAA refuses to follow. While you may not find it an issue. Believe me, it is.

The argument about pilot employment needing access is ENTIRELY SPURIOUS. First for most things, there's still the option of the employer demanding having the employee (prosective) show the pilot certificates. Further, the airlines have a SEPERATE access to the pilot certification databases that is entirely different than the public access we are talking about here. Suffice it to say if the entire public access were shut down today, the airlines could still check on their employees with the FAA.

It's ENTIRELY within their capablity. While the "no disclosure" flag is currently wired up to the address field only, there have been windows (there was a few month period a couple of years ago) when that flag caused your entire record to disappear from the public access. This is what the LAW mandates them to do. If you read the text of the US Code where their exemption to the privacy act exists it says "ANY INFORMATION" not "POSTAL ADDRESS." Further, to counter inane statements by the FAA management, I have gone back over the legislative history (poured through all the records on AIR-21) and there is nothing to indicate that Congress had intended anything other than full opt out as the law states.

It's going to take a Federal judicial action to get the FAA to comply with the law. I've tried all the more benign due process.
 
Takes time and effort. Actually, in my federal court district, it should be swifter than many, but I've not gotten around to it.
 
I understand. It's much easier to complain on a web board (yes, I'm stirring your pot).
 
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