Eyes Out - Flyin Fun

Discussion in 'Lessons Learned' started by OkieAviator, Jan 5, 2020.

  1. OkieAviator

    OkieAviator Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Messages:
    1,688
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    OkieAviator
    1st Saturday of every month KPNC (Ponca City, OK) puts on a fly in breakfast on field. It generally has a good turn out with around 40 planes and 250+ people from the surrounding area showing up if the weather cooperates.

    The general routine is most planes fly in at the very start so it can be fairly congested on arrival. It's an uncontrolled field so it's left up to self coordination, but in fly in fashion most everyone will fly the full pattern. Flight there was business as usual, I was following a friends Baron there and started monitoring CTAF at about 25 mins out. Like usual there were quite a few planes sequencing themselves in. One of my passengers was a retired F16, C130, 747 driver and found that process interesting.

    As the Baron began entering the downwind a Skylane called in that he would go behind the Baron. This is almost the exact scenario discussed in Traffic pattern conflict crosswind vs 45 entry thread. I did as I said I would do in that thread and I slowed down to give way to the Skylane and formed up behind him. At this time no one else was calling in on CTAF so I just let the Skylane lead and asked my passenger to keep his eyes on the plane so I could focus on the task on hand. As the Skylane turned final I went ahead and turned based, then final, making the usual pattern calls. Here's the FlightAware track, can't tell exactly how far that is but maybe a two mile final, longer than I typically do.

    [​IMG]

    The only other traffic I heard at this time was a Cessna flying over midfield for a downwind entry. My thought is good, he's on the radio so he hears my calls. As I'm about a mile out my eagle eye passenger point to my left where I see this Cessna on Base, a bit higher than I am but defiantly coming towards me. A bit off putting I begin to prepare to do a right 360 when I go ahead and announce on CTAF something like 'Ponca City Traffic, Cessna on Base, I'm currently on short final'. I get a response back, can't remember it exactly because I'm staying aligned with the field, watching him and working flaps etc all at the same time. I'm fairly certain his response was that he's turning final and sees me. My response is I'll go long on the runway to give him room.

    Landings were without issue and I feel like an accident was avoided, I don't play the 'what ifs' a lot but obviously there was an increased risk. My first lesson learned was even on short final when I'm usually focused on the task of landing, I still need to scan left and right looking for traffic. This is even with full glass, ADS-B (Guess they don't have ADSB-Out) and believing I understand where everyone is in the pattern. I honestly figured he would have been on downwind since I didn't hear a downwind or a base turn call from him. In hindsight knowing it was a Cessna 150 he's probably use to really slow, tight patterns. The part that bothers me is I pride myself on keeping my eyes out of the cockpit during landings and looking around, I guess I didn't realize until now that as soon as I turn final I stop looking around and am focused on the runway.


    Aftermath
    We get ushered to parking in the order which we landed; Baron, Skylane, My RV-10 and this Cessna 150. As I finish helping my passengers out of the plane one of the guys getting out of the 150 asks who the pilot is. Thinking about about to embark on the usual conversation of 'is that a kit build' 'did you build that' 'how much did that cost' etc I'm surprised after I told him I'm the pilot his response is 'What was that **** about'?...

    Disclaimer:
    Now one of my biggest aviation pet peeves is when someone tries to tell other people how to fly at uncontrolled airfields. All you can do is worry about yourself and keep yourself safe and hope others will do the same. That's why I didn't have heartache about this guy creeping up on my final with what I would consider a very premature turn to base. I made my decisions to keep myself and my passengers safe and landed. I would have even done a right 360 and allowed him to go in first if he hadn't responded and I felt there risk was getting bigger.

    Returning to the event, since he came at my so direct and included cursing I decided to reciprocate the tone with a very well thought out response, 'What ****?'. He then in short order questions why I cut the pattern or didn't fly the pattern or something like that. I in no uncertain terms told him I flew the full pattern sequenced behind the Skylane, called downwind, base and final and he needs to get a clue on what he's talking about before approaching people. I don't know if he was saving face with his passenger, or was trying to be big and bad but I have no time for that nonsense so called him a few choice words and walked off.

    The plane they arrived in was a nicely restored 150 and the guy who confronted me I believe was in the right seat so I thought to myself maybe the guy who didn't say a word was the owner and this guy is a CFI. That would make sense on the face saving bit so I decided to do a 5 min stalking session from my phone. The registration gave me a name/location... that got me to Facebook to someone with that name and location. Which ended in a series of pictures that confirmed the owner of the plane was the dude in the right seat, he's not a CFI and has been flying for under 2 years. Maybe he should work on his CFI before he tries to hand out ramp educations.
     
    PaulS, GRG55 and clarkmueller like this.
  2. GRG55

    GRG55 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2015
    Messages:
    7,317
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Aztec Flyer
    Shzt happens. Sounds like you handled it well.

    But I did find it mildly amusing a likely low time pilot tooling around in a Cessna 150 wanted to play "big and bad"...
     
  3. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 En-Route

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    Messages:
    2,657
    Location:
    KY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Meet the Fokkers
    Compensating ;)
     
  4. OkieAviator

    OkieAviator Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Messages:
    1,688
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    OkieAviator
    Yah I wish I could say size doesn't matter... but I do treat people different based on what they fly. In fact in the above if that was a low wing plane or a jet I would of done a 360 right away no question. I often give way to jets on my home field... well except for one but that's a different story.
     
  5. DFH65

    DFH65 Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,905
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DFH65
    My instructor used to say all the time, "fly your own airplane."

    You were in an RV and he was in a 150 you should have been able to fly the pattern get down and parked in the time it took him to fly the base leg. :)
     
  6. Larry Korona

    Larry Korona Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2017
    Messages:
    28
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Larry
    This why I tend to plan my arrival for later in the morning so to avoid the rush. I landed at about 9:15 no traffic and got a parking spot up front. All the early arrivals were starting to depart, leaving empty parking spots. Inbound from Tulsa I was watching a rush of folks landing, by the time I got closer to PNC things calmed down. Left about 11:15 after fueling up at the SS pump, just a few planes left on the ramp, no issues on departure.
     
  7. OkieAviator

    OkieAviator Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Messages:
    1,688
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    OkieAviator
    Did you eat? Sometimes by the time I leave the line is out he door! It’s a good time though.
     
  8. Larry Korona

    Larry Korona Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2017
    Messages:
    28
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Larry
    Yes I did, and yes the line was long but it kept moving. What time did you land?
     
  9. OkieAviator

    OkieAviator Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Messages:
    1,688
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    OkieAviator
    I always try to get there a little before 8. Hunt me out next time you go, my plane looks like my Avatar picture. I typically meet some other RV drivers coming in from Riverside.
     
  10. Larry Korona

    Larry Korona Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2017
    Messages:
    28
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Larry
    Will do!
     
  11. Dbarbee

    Dbarbee Pre-Flight

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2015
    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    Sapulpa, OK (KRVS)
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Daniel Barbee
    its always a toss up for us between leaving RVS early or waiting a little later, advantages and disadvantages both ways.

    leaving later means getting to sleep in a little and less traffic converging in the pattern at PNC but usually puts us on the overflow ramp (or the grass) and a longer line for breakfast on the busier Saturdays.
     
  12. lancie00

    lancie00 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    753
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    lancie00
    I know most people I run into while flying are super nice and would do anything for you but the ****oles sure stand out. You did good. He needs to get a clue.
     
  13. DFH65

    DFH65 Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,905
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DFH65
    So you admit you are part of the problem. :D
     
  14. lancie00

    lancie00 Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    753
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    lancie00
    According to a lot of people, I'm most of the problem. ;)
     
    DFH65 likes this.
  15. Witmo

    Witmo Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,046
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tim
    Whenever an airplane like a Baron flies the whole pattern, anyone behind them ends up having to fly a bigger pattern. Multiple airplanes behind a Baron and the subsequent airplanes end up flying bigger and bigger patterns. For this reason, I prefer when fast airplanes do a straight in and get down and out of the way of the puddle jumpers flying the 'full" pattern at 70 mph. Throw a J-3 cub in a mix with jets and twins and a Cirrus or two flying all the legs of the traffc pattern and things get too interesting for my taste. I'm not saying it can't be done safely, but all it takes is someone not paying attention (like the 150 pilot in this instance) and planes are at risk of trading paint. When the pattern gets strung out excessively, pilots looking for airplanes in the pattern won't be looking in the normal places they expect to see airplanes on base or turning final.
     
  16. Lachlan

    Lachlan En-Route

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2015
    Messages:
    3,386
    Location:
    North Creek, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Lachlan
    Good to know. I’ll try to stay out of everyone’s way, and always beg and grovel, genuflect on bended knee and shower you with thanks each time I am allowed to pilot my lowly airplane into your sky.
     
  17. pigpenracing

    pigpenracing Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,442
    Location:
    Brenham Tx
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    pigpen
    You should have punched him out and got it on video so we could all watch :D
     
    Huckster79 likes this.
  18. OkieAviator

    OkieAviator Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Messages:
    1,688
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    OkieAviator
    You seem really sensitive to your size. As long as your passenger is good with it I wouldn’t let it get to down.
     
  19. Lachlan

    Lachlan En-Route

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2015
    Messages:
    3,386
    Location:
    North Creek, NY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Lachlan
    I feel quite happy with my size. It’s the size God gave me. I just feel bad that you treat people differently based on what they fly, rather than just looking at aviation as a great joy. So yeah, I was mocking you. Make fun of me all you want, my life is wonderful and I’m happy with it. I fly a 150. What’s not to be happy about? Need a beer?
     
  20. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    Messages:
    15,127
    Location:
    Norfolk, VA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Fearless Tower
    That depends entirely on who is flying the Baron.

    I flew pretty tight patterns when I had my Baron. Even in the Beech 18, my pattern is tighter than 75% of the local flight school Cessnas.

    Where patterns start to expand is when you get a bunch of flight school 172s flying B-52 patterns and 3 mile finals.
     
  21. OkieAviator

    OkieAviator Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2014
    Messages:
    1,688
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    OkieAviator
    Oh you were being serious... clarifying my original statement, it was referencing how I absolutely take into account other aircraft's performance in my own decision making process. If you had continued reading my statement you would have seen my example relates to low wing vs high wing, piston vs jets. No where did I show despise for 150s. In this incident I liked the actual plane, just not a fan of the pilot. Again based on his decision process, not his plane.
     
  22. Witmo

    Witmo Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,046
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tim
    All it takes is one pilot flying a bomber pattern to force the aircraft behind him to start stretching out the pattern. It's been my experience that most twins and all jets will fly a larger pattern due to their approach speed and I understand that which is why I prefer them to fly straight in and land. As for students flying bigger patterns, I'll cut them some slack as students. What bugs me most are those "experienced" pilots that fly their 172 as if it were a 747 doing a stabilized approach and calling "short final" at 3 miles.
     
  23. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    Messages:
    15,127
    Location:
    Norfolk, VA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Fearless Tower
    True, but that impact is hardly related to twins. At my home field it is the flight school 172s that fly the widest patterns and consequently jam things up. To me it isn't the student that bothers me as much as the dude in the right seat that either teaches that or lets that happen.
     
  24. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Messages:
    7,265
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Luvflyin
    That’s what ya get fer lettin the Skylane in :D
     
  25. iflyvfr

    iflyvfr Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,679
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Greg
    LOL I gotta admit that's not the way it read! I was like *only on POA* :D