Eye floaters and FOV (Floater Only Vitrecomy)

[BigTimeFlyBy]

Hello, I’m new here as well as a new student pilot and I’ve been really struggling lately…

I’m 26M and have been a computer programmer for almost 5 years now, and recently I decided I couldn’t sit on a computer inside for the rest of my life and re-realized my passion for aviation, the sky, and traveling that I had put off for some time.

But literally right as I decided I was going to go for it and right before I started flight training… BAM, I got hit with a sudden onset of dozens of dark spots, blobs, and cobwebs in both eyes. It literally happened over the course of a few days. I saw 2 ophthalmologists and a retinal specialist before even starting my training and each one looked at me like I’m crazy and said my eyes are perfect and in no way should this interfere with flying. 20/15 In both eyes with no problems, no glasses or contacts, no myopia, no RD, no PVD, no VD, no uveitis, no medical issues what so ever (and I mentioned my floaters and flying is why I was there).

So… okay, I’m kind of suffering here but I continue on and do my discovery flight and schedule my medical. I opted for class 1 and decided I would mention my floaters to the AME and on the medical application (even though I probably could have not said anything), and he suggested it could be PVD (I knew it wasn’t) and said to get my 8500-7 from my last eye doctor and so I did, all confirming no problems and great vision.

So great right? Well.. no. Despite continuing my training, doing great with landings right off the bat and feeling the thrill of flight, I have temporarily stopped my flight training because of these floaters. My left eye is not so bad.. maybe 6-7 prominent floaters that mostly stay in my peripheral and swirl when I turn my head, they don’t annoying me too much. But my right eye is horribly distracting with 8-10 thick dots and lines that cross my field of view and settle in my central vision with even the slightest head turn.. so you can imagine how uncomfortable looking for traffic and scanning instruments is on a bright morning or with overcast clouds.

That all being said… I can still spot traffic, see the airport 10 miles out, read instruments and charts, and make smooth landings, but I’m distraught over this condition because it’s ruined the beautiful sky for me and my comfort in checking the numerous parameters needed for safe flight quickly and effectively. I’ve done all the research there is to do on this condition, and if you know anything about it, you know that there’s only two actually viable options… do nothing, or surgery.

This condition has ruined my quality of life in so many other ways (golfing, swimming, computer work) that I’m actually considering what’s called a Floater Only Vitrectomy in at least my right eye. This procedure could potentially give me my entire life back and let me at least turn my head with comfort again… but it’s surgery and comes with risks and future complications like guaranteed cataracts at some point.

Am I crazy to even consider this? Would a surgery like this, even if completely successful, screw up a professional pilot career with hiring implications? Has anyone here had a successful FOV or normal vitrectomy before or during your piloting career? Could potential cataracts at a potentially early age encounter any of the same problems?

My apologies for the long write up.. I’m just really suffering lately and dying to get my life back, to continue flying, and enjoying life as I once did.

Thanks for any advice/help

 

[AggieMike88]

Health and long term quality of life first.

Fly later.

Once the issue is solved and stable, consult with the correct “challenging case” AME for guidance in how to o twin your medical.

 

[BigTimeFlyBy]

Health and long term quality of life first.

Fly later.

Once the issue is solved and stable, consult with the correct “challenging case” AME for guidance in how to o twin your medical.

Would it really involve something as expensive as that? I was under the impression it would be like a normal 6 month medical after recovery, maybe another 8500-7 along with it, and if I visually checked out all would be good?

Not like I would be dealing with battling a history of substance abuse or something along those lines. Again even with the floaters mentioned I received a Class 1 with virtually no issues.

 

[Eldorado]

As a retired ophthalmologist who has lived with floaters since age 26, I would advise against a vitrectomy and would never perform one on a patient that had 20/15 vision in both eyes. With time they likely will be less debilitating. Definitely you have little to gain and a lot to lose. Your not crazy, but you’ve had three specialists tell you to give it some time.

 

[Albany Tom]

As someone that's had eye surgery, that was successful, I'd be really cautious of eye surgery that wasn't absolutely required, other than lasix.

 

[Van Johnston]

As a veteran of 5 vitrectomies and 2 cataract surgeries in an 18 month period, I recommend the surgery as a last resort at this stage. Be patient.

Also, I recommend not getting old.

 

[BigTimeFlyBy]

As a veteran of 5 vitrectomies and 2 cataract surgeries in an 18 month period, I recommend the surgery as a last resort at this stage. Be patient.

Also, I recommend not getting old.

Did you also suffer with floaters before your procedure? Are you still flying after your cataract surgeries?

And I’m trying to be patient but it’s really tough. It’s been 8 months. Not only is work harder to keep focused on but I’m dying to make a career change and get off the computer. Add that to not being able to enjoy my previous stress relievers anymore like golf, walks and runs, the lake, and watching the sunrise/sunset and I feel like I’m almost to my breaking point. I’m not sure what qualifies as last resort for most people, but not being able to work comfortably, halting my future dreams, and not being able to destress after work is really getting to me.

 

[BigTimeFlyBy]

As a retired ophthalmologist who has lived with floaters since age 26, I would advise against a vitrectomy and would never perform one on a patient that had 20/15 vision in both eyes. With time they likely will be less debilitating. Definitely you have little to gain and a lot to lose. Your not crazy, but you’ve had three specialists tell you to give it some time.

I understand your cautiousness, but respectfully the same specialists couldn’t even understand why I’d come to see them and were seemingly confused why I would even think my floaters would be a problem.

I’d like to hope they would get “better” overtime but 8 months so far and they are just as stressing as when they first arrived, if not more so.

 

[Van Johnston]

Did you also suffer with floaters before your procedure? Are you still flying after your cataract surgeries?

And I’m trying to be patient but it’s really tough. It’s been 8 months. Not only is work harder to keep focused on but I’m dying to make a career change and get off the computer. Add that to not being able to enjoy my previous stress relievers anymore like golf, walks and runs, the lake, and watching the sunrise/sunset and I feel like I’m almost to my breaking point. I’m not sure what qualifies as last resort for most people, but not being able to work comfortably, halting my future dreams, and not being able to destress after work is really getting to me.

No floaters prior, other than the occasional random ones most people get. I suffered a detached retina in one eye, resulting in the first two vitrectomies. That induced the first cataract to grow. After that cataract surgery, I was back in the air the next week. Flying on basic med. If I was on a class III, then it would have been much more involved to get back in the air. Old age caused the other cataract, but there was a complication with that surgery, which induced a detached retina in my 'good' eye, and the other three vitrectomies. That's why I recommend elective eye surgery at your age as a last resort.

 

[BigTimeFlyBy]

No floaters prior, other than the occasional random ones most people get. I suffered a detached retina in one eye, resulting in the first two vitrectomies. That induced the first cataract to grow. After that cataract surgery, I was back in the air the next week. Flying on basic med. If I was on a class III, then it would have been much more involved to get back in the air. Old age caused the other cataract, but there was a complication with that surgery, which induced a detached retina in my 'good' eye, and the other three vitrectomies. That's why I recommend elective eye surgery at your age as a last resort.

I understand… thank you for insight and comments. I’m honestly scared for my future period and feel as though I’m rapidly approaching my last resort phase.

 

[Eldorado]

Keep shopping for a specialist till you find one who will tell you what you want to hear, but I doubt if I would trust his opinion just because he agreed with me. Please step back and give it some time, but that doesn’t mean you should stop learning as much as you can about floaters and vitrectomies. They are high risk surgeries to prevent imminent blindness, not treatments you do for “healthy” 20/15 eyes on a young person. The vitreous is not a frivolous part of the eye but serves a useful purpose.

 

[lsaway]

Have any of your doctor's considered painless migraines with aura.

 

[BigTimeFlyBy]

Have any of your doctor's considered painless migraines with aura.

Yes I’ve read the symptoms and I do not have aura, or headaches, and my floaters are persistent not on and off.

 

[kell490]

When I was 29 I noticed a few floaters didn't know what it was had it checked out confirmed what it was was told to learn to ignore them. I don't really even notice them until I start thinking about it reading this thread looking at the white screen on this forum now I see them. It's like ringing in my ear tinnitus same thing never an issue until someone brings up the subject and I start thinking about it I hear the ringing. Maybe there is a way you can learn to ignore them.

 

[BigTimeFlyBy]

When I was 29 I noticed a few floaters didn't know what it was had it checked out confirmed what it was was told to learn to ignore them. I don't really even notice them until I start thinking about it reading this thread looking at the white screen on this forum now I see them. It's like ringing in my ear tinnitus same thing never an issue until someone brings up the subject and I start thinking about it I hear the ringing. Maybe there is a way you can learn to ignore them.

Believe me I've been trying... but 8+ months into this torture and in my right eye specifically there are several bounded webs and knots of dark collagen that settle right in the dead center of my focus, and "windshield wipe" my entire visual axis with even the slightest turn of the head in either direction. Combine that with fast paced instrument checks and it becomes a non-stop swirling pool of crap in even moderately bright light.

I know what you mean about the tinnitus, I have a slight ringing in my ears as well and I never hear it unless I'm in a completely quiet room or "listen" for it like you say, and 99% of the time I completely forget I have it. Even when I hear it I almost find it soothing in a strange way which seems to lessen the neurological feedback loop and make it very subtle and tolerable. Wish I could say the same for my floaters...

 

[kell490]

Believe me I've been trying... but 8+ months into this torture and in my right eye specifically there are several bounded webs and knots of dark collagen that settle right in the dead center of my focus, and "windshield wipe" my entire visual axis with even the slightest turn of the head in either direction. Combine that with fast paced instrument checks and it becomes a non-stop swirling pool of crap in even moderately bright light.

I know what you mean about the tinnitus, I have a slight ringing in my ears as well and I never hear it unless I'm in a completely quiet room or "listen" for it like you say, and 99% of the time I completely forget I have it. Even when I hear it I almost find it soothing in a strange way which seems to lessen the neurological feedback loop and make it very subtle and tolerable. Wish I could say the same for my floaters...

Good luck I would get several opinions before choosing your next step. My uncle has all kinds of problems after routine cataract surgery had to have lens replaced multiple laser procedures.

 

[Lindberg]

Am I crazy to even consider this?

Yes. You're considering surgery for something three specialists have told you not to worry about. That's indeed crazy. And why did you see three specialists to begin with?

You've got floaters; we all do. You may have new ones. You may have old ones that have migrated in your visual field. You're stressed about work and you're stressed about flying and you're stressed about your eyes. You can't not see them now. You don't need surgery, you need to stop worrying about your floaters. And I'll bet when you do that, they'll go away.

How do I know? BTDT.

 

[JimBirk]

My apologies for the long write up.. I’m just really suffering lately and dying to get my life back, to continue flying, and enjoying life as I once did.

I'm sorry to hear about how your floaters are effecting you. It's great to hear that the doctors are telling you that your eyes are healthy, even though they are currently a major annoyance in your life. Healthy eyes is a good thing.

Good mental health is also a good thing. Have you considered connecting with an eye floater related support group? Chatting with folks who can relate to what you are going through may be comforting and relieve some of your stress. You may even discover some techniques for coping with the issue.

FWIW: I asked my eye doctor about floaters on one visit. She told me the surgery to get rid of them was risky. She went on to tell me that she has some floaters, but she decided to embrace them by giving them names! I laughed; but now that I'm thinking about it, I can imagine that being able to yell at one's floaters by name would be cathartic.

Good luck!

 

[bbchien]

to the OP: healthcare first, FAA second.....

 

[BigTimeFlyBy]

Yes. You're considering surgery for something three specialists have told you not to worry about. That's indeed crazy.

Yet those same specialists claimed to not be able to see my floaters at all and couldn't confirm that I even had them.

And why did you see three specialists to begin with?

Because I went from completely clear and pristine vision one day, working comfortably, enjoying my life and looking forward to the future, to dozens and dozens of swirling black noodles and blobs in my eyes the next that have severely impacted the quality of everything I do. From being able to enjoy a sunny day on the lake or golfing to having pools of flies and cobwebs dancing around my eyes at all times. Getting hours of uninterrupted work done on a computer to having my focus ruined every 15 seconds.

You've got floaters; we all do.

That's interesting, because my 88 year old grandma, uncle, mom, cousins, friends, and co-workers have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about and say that they never experienced anything like this growing up, that they look up and see a clear sky and not an oil spill in their eyes.

I can believe that all people, at some age, get some degree of floating specks that are mostly transparent and hardly noticeable, or older people that experience PVD can get quite large masses in their center vision.

You're stressed about work and you're stressed about flying and you're stressed about your eyes.You can't not see them now.

Yes I am, and previously before this condition occurred, I was not stressed in the slightest and very excited about where my life was going. I can't not see them because I can physically feel them diffracting light and moving in my eyes. They swipe my entire visual axis constantly and never leave directly where I'm looking. I'm not choosing to find them.

you need to stop worrying about your floaters. And I'll bet when you do that, they'll go away.

How do I know? BTDT.

So you're saying all I have to do is not worry about something that is constantly in the middle of my vision and I'll be able to look at a clear blue sky again without seeing it? Be able to golf without pools of noodles swirling around in my eyes?

 

[Kenny Phillips]

Yet those same specialists claimed to not be able to see my floaters at all and couldn't confirm that I even had them.



Because I went from completely clear and pristine vision one day, working comfortably, enjoying my life and looking forward to the future, to dozens and dozens of swirling black noodles and blobs in my eyes the next that have severely impacted the quality of everything I do. From being able to enjoy a sunny day on the lake or golfing to having pools of flies and cobwebs dancing around my eyes at all times. Getting hours of uninterrupted work done on a computer to having my focus ruined every 15 seconds.



That's interesting, because my 88 year old grandma, uncle, mom, cousins, friends, and co-workers have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about and say that they never experienced anything like this growing up, that they look up and see a clear sky and not an oil spill in their eyes.

I can believe that all people, at some age, get some degree of floating specks that are mostly transparent and hardly noticeable, or older people that experience PVD can get quite large masses in their center vision.



Yes I am, and previously before this condition occurred, I was not stressed in the slightest and very excited about where my life was going. I can't not see them because I can physically feel them diffracting light and moving in my eyes. They swipe my entire visual axis constantly and never leave directly where I'm looking. I'm not choosing to find them.



So you're saying all I have to do is not worry about something that is constantly in the middle of my vision and I'll be able to look at a clear blue sky again without seeing it? Be able to golf without pools of noodles swirling around in my eyes?

If I concentrate, I can see a sea of them, and I can hear the ringing in my ears. But if I don't obsess, they all fade away. Make sure your brain isn't getting in your way.

 

[BigTimeFlyBy]

If I concentrate, I can see a sea of them, and I can hear the ringing in my ears. But if I don't obsess, they all fade away. Make sure your brain isn't getting in your way.

I understand this... my point remains that it does not apply to me. For the tinnitus? Yes, this applies completely and 99% of the time I do not hear the ringing because I choose not to focus on it.

As I'm typing this sentence right now, there is a long wormy cobweb-like structure with black blobs following every word I'm writing as my eyes shift to the next word. I do not have to focus on it, I do not have to find it or concentrate on it, its simply there, even in a darkly lit room with my laptop on full dim mode, and is one of several dozen, of which all become 100% constantly visible when outside in the sunlight.

 

[Lindberg]

Yet those same specialists claimed to not be able to see my floaters at all and couldn't confirm that I even had them.

Those same specialists who I'm guessing dilated your pupils and actually examined your eyes. They know what's normal and what's not; that's their job.

And if you tell one of them you want a vitrectomy for floaters he can't see, there's a good chance he will refer you to a psychologist. And there's nothing at all wrong with that. I'm just telling you that based on what you've written here, and what the specialists who've examined you have said, you don't have an eye problem.

FWIW, Therapy is not reportable on your medical application unless it results in a psychiatric diagnosis. And talking to someone about your stressors--not anxiety--can be a very good thing.

https://aviatorshq.com/can-pilots-see-a-therapist-psychologist/

 

[BigTimeFlyBy]

Those same specialists who I'm guessing dilated your pupils and actually examined your eyes. They know what's normal and what's not; that's their job.

And if you tell one of them you want a vitrectomy for floaters he can't see, there's a good chance he will refer you to a psychologist. And there's nothing at all wrong with that. I'm just telling you that based on what you've written here, and what the specialists who've examined you have said, you don't have an eye problem.

FWIW, Therapy is not reportable on your medical application unless it results in a psychiatric diagnosis. And talking to someone about your stressors--not anxiety--can be a very good thing.

https://aviatorshq.com/can-pilots-see-a-therapist-psychologist/

They can't see them because they are a special kind of fibrous floaters that occur in young patients and are not detectable on OCT/Fundus imaging because they are microscopic and exist extremely close to the retina in the pre-macular bursa area, but they can be visualized using Quantitative Ultrasound which I did not undergo. I know this now after speaking with other people online who went through similar diagnosis and had to go to several specialist before finding one that could see them.

I do indeed have an eye problem, I wouldn't be wasting my time on this board asking medical questions if I didn't. Why would I visit a therapist explaining a physiological problem? I can agree that my psychological response to my physiological problem is not the healthiest at the moment, but saying that a 26 year old that has swirling pools of black **** in his eyes that suddenly appears overnight does not have an eye problem is just being disingenuous.

 

[Lindberg]

I really hope that you find a resolution, but this isn't the "Tell me what I want to hear," forum. If you need the surgery, get the surgery. But it seems that your questions are premature if you haven't yet had the necessary diagnostic testing nor found a doctor willing to perform the surgery.

 

[Van Johnston]

... they can be visualized using Quantitative Ultrasound which I did not undergo. I know this now after speaking with other people online who went through similar diagnosis and had to go to several specialist before finding one that could see them....

That sounds like your next step...find someone who can do the ultrasound to confirm the diagnosis.

Don't know if it is the same ultrasound my ophthalmologist did after my cataract surgery complication. Of course, he was just looking at the lens implant, not way back at the back. He gave me the little wand thing and let me move it around the surface of my eyeball. I still chuckle at the irony of using ultrasound on eyeballs.