Ext Harddrives

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Dave Taylor
I am looking to backup an XP computer (it largely doesn't go online and has expensive-to-replace proprietary software) using CMS BounceBack17.
(This will image the drive so that if the computer fails I can reinstall it on another computer, or so they say)

I was thinking an SSD ext harddrive.
Many SSDs say compatible with ____ (Win7, Win10 etc)... but not XP.
Why is that, do they have software of their own? Or maybe they would work fine.

PS this computer'sHDD is 300gb and we are using 20gb but that will grow to 100gb max.
 
Why not make a virtual image of the disk and save it as a file.. Then you can load it anywhere on any platform. VMware workstation, hyperv, etc.
 
No TRIM support in XP, I don't believe, you'll need at least Windows 7 for that, which SSDs need to extend their life. You're limited by the external interface you're using to backup as well, so if you're using an SSD with a USB2 port, that probably wouldn't make the most use of the SSD speed.
 
If you're just backing up files, why not use a 128gb thumb drive? I used AEOMI to back up (disk image) my xp system onto a thumb drive, worked great, and free.
 
I doubt there would be an issue with a WinXP backup to SSD, but I probably wouldn't choose SSD as a backup medium when there are cheaper alternatives.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
If you're just backing up files, why not use a 128gb thumb drive? I used AEOMI to back up (disk image) my xp system onto a thumb drive, worked great, and free.
Click to expand...
Imaging the expensive software, not just files- do not trust flash drives for backups in any case
 
JGoodish said:
I doubt there would be an issue with a WinXP backup to SSD, but I probably wouldn't choose SSD as a backup medium when there are cheaper alternatives.
Click to expand...
seeing SSDs for <$100... didnt seem pricey to me
 
Challenged said:
No TRIM support in XP, I don't believe, you'll need at least Windows 7 for that, which SSDs need to extend their life. You're limited by the external interface you're using to backup as well, so if you're using an SSD with a USB2 port, that probably wouldn't make the most use of the SSD speed.
Click to expand...

no idea what TRIM is
speed is bit an issue, (reliable image is.)
happy to use spinny disks, if SSD may not be compatible
 
ifly4fun said:
Why not make a virtual image of the disk and save it as a file.. Then you can load it anywhere on any platform. VMware workstation, hyperv, etc.
Click to expand...

I think thats what BB17 will do, image the disk. I already own BB so I'm going to use that. No plans to use on a variety of platforms.
 
Don't know the backup software but might take a peek at what USB version the thing has before worrying too much about speed on an external drive.

Probably at best USB2 and there's probably no point in putting a fast SSD on slow USB, just for a backup. Start it and go to bed, it'll be done in the morning. Could even be USB1 if the hardware is really old.

I'm of the bent that if there's no fancy hardware involved in this XP machine, I would also do a Physical to Virtual conversion and make it a Virtual Machine in some safe to be online OS and not let it have access to the Net anymore. Just copy files from the host to the client OS if needed.

XP is way dead and shouldn't be online anymore.

One thing all sysadmins also say: An untested backup isn't a backup.

You may want to pick up another internal disk for the machine, make that backup, and then actually restore it to the machine to see if your backup software really works. Or if you have access to other hardware, restore it there and see if the software actually handles the hardware changes correctly.

Of course making it a VM gets rid of the worry of all that. Copy the image file a few different places (on or off site) regularly after converting and making sure it works, and as long as the VM engine of choice is available, backups are as simple as shutting down the VM and making a copy of the file.

I archived a couple of dad's old XP machines into VMs when he passed away and can boot them and hunt through them for files. Came in handy a couple of times.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
seeing SSDs for <$100... didnt seem pricey to me
Click to expand...

The point is that spinning disk is much cheaper. No one backs up to SSD. Many companies are still using tape. There's nothing necessarily wrong with backing up to SSD, but I guess it depends on how many backups you plan to do and for how long you plan to retain them.


JKG
 
I was under the impression that an XP vm is essentially gets blown apart rebuilt every time is gets powered up and down. If that's the case, what's the big deal with giving it net access periodically? I run an XP Vbox VM for some legacy software under Linux, and access the web for updates. Never had a problem as the next time I start the VM, I essentially have a fresh copy of the operating system.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
I was under the impression that an XP vm is essentially gets blown apart rebuilt every time is gets powered up and down. If that's the case, what's the big deal with giving it net access periodically? I run an XP Vbox VM for some legacy software under Linux, and access the web for updates. Never had a problem as the next time I start the VM, I essentially have a fresh copy of the operating system.
Click to expand...

A VM is simply a machine encapsulated in a file. No, nothing is "blown apart". If the old buggy OS gets infected/hacked/cracked and you shut down the VM, it's still the same mess it was on the way down when it is booted back up.

You can go boot the BACKUP file/snapshot taken before the infection, but any work you saved or changes you made inside the VM while it was running, are lost, unless you moved those out.

And none of the above has anything to do with why it shouldn't be on the Net. That's because it's flat out vulnerable and unsupported and it's now past time for it to die and go away.

The commercial software should be moved to something supported, unfortunately. Not my call. Microsoft's. They killed it. I'm just the messenger. Not that it isn't well known.

The new model is that consumer OSs are essentially always-updating never the same, rental software now. Just how it is.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
I was under the impression that an XP vm is essentially gets blown apart rebuilt every time is gets powered up and down. If that's the case, what's the big deal with giving it net access periodically? I run an XP Vbox VM for some legacy software under Linux, and access the web for updates. Never had a problem as the next time I start the VM, I essentially have a fresh copy of the operating system.
Click to expand...
If your VM is running on a persistent disk or has write filter, like most corporate VDI environments, that may be the case but that's not how a typical vm works.
 
In this particular situation, Dave has said that the system rarely connects to the Internet, and has software that would be expensive to upgrade/replace. With those circumstances, I probably wouldn't be in a hurry to upgrade, either.


JKG
 
JGoodish said:
In this particular situation, Dave has said that the system rarely connects to the Internet, and has software that would be expensive to upgrade/replace. With those circumstances, I probably wouldn't be in a hurry to upgrade, either.
Click to expand...

Take the Internet connection off of it and run it forever for all I care. The assumption here is that anything that can be "rarely" connected can also be isolated, with anything it needs added, moved onto it via physical means (USB stick).

No point at all in exposing it. It's known to be insecure at this point in time, and folks had years to deal with it. It's not like the EoL schedule was any secret.

It's over TBO and one cylinder reads zero compression.
 
It's insecure in the sense that it isn't being monitored and patched. Perhaps there are known vulnerabilities, but given its age and declining installed base, it is unlikely to be a focus of new vulnerabilities.

With that said, I agree that putting it on the network represents an increased risk. Doesn't sound like Dave really needs it on the net, though.

My wife has an XP VM that she uses for her sewing machine applications. It still works as well as it ever did, and there's no point in paying to upgrade the OS and the applications. If it gets hit with a virus, we delete the VM and copy over a backup.


JKG
 
Personally, I don't see the point of using an SSD as a backup path for an XP machine that almost certainly has USB2.0. Why bother? Your transfer rate will be limited by the slowest link in the chain, which in this case is the USB interface. If you have eSATA, then maybe it would make sense. But not USB.

High-end HDDs in OEM packaging are available for a song at Micro Center. I'd get two drives and two enclosures and either rotate them manually, or set up the software to perform two imaging jobs (one to each drive) alternately. That provides some redundancy. Or make one an image and the other a clone. Or virtualize it.

SSD over USB2.0 just doesn't make sense to me.

Rich
 
is there some way to run XP drivers in a W7,8, or 10 environment?
 
paflyer said:
is there some way to run XP drivers in a W7,8, or 10 environment?
Click to expand...

If the purpose is to share the device, then usually yes if the device is shareable and all the computers share the same register width (32- or 64-bit). Otherwise, maybe or maybe not. It depends on the device and the driver.

Rich
 
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