Expired CFI

G

Getonit

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Apr 15, 2013
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Mark
First of all I made a big mistake letting it expire, I am kicking myself over that. I will never let that happen again, never. Now that the self immolation is done. What can I do to get it back?

My understanding is I can take a check ride with the FAA, not going to happen as I went from a shiny jet captain, who knew everything who didn't work very hard, and was proficient, 5 years ago to a management position where I don't have time to review and can barely land a C-152 from the left seat.

I don't actively instruct but would like to.

I am looking for the easiest, quickest, cheapest way to get my CFI-I back. I believe I can add an instructor rating like MEI or something.

Looking for advice, beatdowns, etc.

Thanks,
Mark
 
You would have to do a CFI check ride again. Recommend doing a CFII in a SEL airplane check ride and reinstate all your certificates.

Check with your local flight schools.
 
Getonit said:
First of all I made a big mistake letting it expire, I am kicking myself over that. I will never let that happen again, never. Now that the self immolation is done. What can I do to get it back?

My understanding is I can take a check ride with the FAA, not going to happen as I went from a shiny jet captain, who knew everything who didn't work very hard, and was proficient, 5 years ago to a management position where I don't have time to review and can barely land a C-152 from the left seat.

I don't actively instruct but would like to.

I am looking for the easiest, quickest, cheapest way to get my CFI-I back. I believe I can add an instructor rating like MEI or something.

Looking for advice, beatdowns, etc.

Thanks,
Mark
Click to expand...

You can go to a DPE and take a checkride to re instate, or as you suggest get your MEI.

It's really no big deal. :dunno:
 
Once you've expired, there is no alternative to a CFI practical test, although it need not be with the FAA -- a FIRE DPE can do it, too. When you take a practical test to reinstate your CFI, you have two options:
1. Take the complete practical test for one of the CFI ratings you have (ASE and IA, I gather)
2. Take the complete practical test for an additional CFI rating (e.g., AME)

If you "can barely land a C-152 from the left seat," none of those is going to be a good option without a good bit of training to get your proficiency back, but I suspect the cheapest and simplest option would be to get in something simple like a 172 and get your instrument pilot/instructor proficiency back in order, and then take the CFI-IA ride. Doing the reinstatement via a CFI-ASE ride requires a complex airplane, and doing everything you did on your original ride, including all the chandelles and 8's-on-pylons and the like, but maybe that's a better option for you than regaining instrument proficiency if you think your stick-and-rudder skills will come back faster than your instrument skills. As noted above, if you feel confident you can build your ME skills faster than your commercial maneuvers or instrument skills, you could go for an AME rating ride -- you'll just pay 2-3 times as much per hour for your training -- think about your skills and do the math.

But any way you look at it, it's going to require that you regain instructional proficiency in the cockpit again and then take a CFI practical test -- no getting around that. Next time, I'm sure you'll respond to those emails from Gleim and the others and do the FIRC before you expire again.
 
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If you are a glider pilot cfig is cake, that will renew all of them.
 
Ron Levy said:
Doing the reinstatement via a CFI-ASE ride requires a complex airplane...
Click to expand...

Not entirely true. I just came across this tonight, reading up on the flight instructor PTS, that leaves it up to the examiner...


Page 17 of FAA-S-8081-6D
NOTE: Providing the initial practical test was completed in a complex airplane, the renewal or reinstatement of the Flight Instructor Certificate may be performed in a non-complex airplane, at the discretion of the examiner.
 
Ron Levy said:
.....
If you "can barely land a C-152 from the left seat," none of those is going to be a good option without a good bit of training to get your proficiency back,.
Click to expand...
...

I like arguing with Ron but he is correct in 99.99994% of the debates..:redface:..


And this feedback is dead on..... Follow his advise...:yes:
 
When I let mine expire in order to concentrate on the bar exam (pre-Internet and online renewals!). I really kicked myself for letting it go. But I just dove into prepping for CFI-I which took about 10-12 hours plus the written. Got the double-I and reinstatement from a DPE. Pretty painless.
 
Brad Z said:
Not entirely true. I just came across this tonight, reading up on the flight instructor PTS, that leaves it up to the examiner...


Page 17 of FAA-S-8081-6D
NOTE: Providing the initial practical test was completed in a complex airplane, the renewal or reinstatement of the Flight Instructor Certificate may be performed in a non-complex airplane, at the discretion of the examiner.
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Thanks for the catch -- that's a change from the old PTS in effect when I last had to do a reinstatement.
 
Although not directly applicable to your situation, I used the Gleim FIRC material last month for renewal and found it to be a well-organized and effective review of the applicable subjects.

The material for each subject consists of a 20-question quiz that allows the student to self-correct and which provides supporting explanations, followed by an expanded (2-3 page) outline/discussion of the subject matter and concludes with a 10-question test.

I haven't seen any other review material that condenses and explains the subjects better, but haven't searched extensively. The course can easily be completed in a day's time.
 
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wabower said:
Although not directly applicable to your situation, I used the Gleim FIRC material last month for renewal and found it to be a well-organized and effective review of the applicable subjects.

The material for each subject consists of a 20-question quiz that allows the student to self-correct and which provides supporting explanations, followed by an expanded (2-3 page) outline/discussion of the subject matter and concludes with a 10-question test.

I haven't seen any other review material that condenses and explains the subjects better, but haven't searched extensively. The course can easily be completed in a day's time.
Click to expand...

The Gleim FIRC is a good one. I used them a few times in the past.

Just did my last renewal which took all of ten minutes. Went into IACRA, filled it out and called my old supervisor, he renewed it for me. :thumbsup:
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Hmm. I thought that provision had been removed, or WAS going to be removed.
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Still there:
(2) Submitting a completed and signed application with the FAA and satisfactorily completing one of the following renewal requirements--
...
(ii) A record showing that, within the preceding 24 calendar months, the flight instructor has served as a company check pilot, chief flight instructor, company check airman, or flight instructor in a part 121 or part 135 operation, or in a position involving the regular evaluation of pilots.
...
Click to expand...
Now, what does that mean? From FAA Order 8900.1:
C. Section 61.197(a)(2)(ii). Individuals have asked FAA about the intent of the statement, “in a position involving the regular evaluation of pilots” in § 61.197(a)(2)(ii) and whether it has the same meaning as the old provision in § 61.197(b) . The FAA rewrote § 61.197 to expand the renewal provisions, mainly to include other PICs. For example, the following PICs , who regularly evaluate pilots, have the same reward provisions as a PIC in a part 121 operation:

· A PIC of a multiple pilot flightcrew aircraft under part 135 ,
· Corporate PICs of a multiple pilot flightcrew aircraft under part 125 or 133 ,
· U.S. military pilots who are PICs of a multiple pilot flightcrew aircraft,
· U.S. military instructor pilots and examiners who regularly evaluate pilots under part 125 or 133 , and
· Flight instructors who actively instruct in part 61 schools.

NOTE: FAA ASIs should review evidence of the applicant’s employment, which should clearly show that the applicant is in a position involving the regular evaluation of pilots. ASIs also should have personal knowledge of the applicant’s flight instructing capabilities and qualities before renewing that applicant’s flight instructor certificate.
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Perhaps you were thinking of the rewrite referred to in the Order.
 
Ron Levy said:
Still there:

Now, what does that mean? From FAA Order 8900.1:
Perhaps you were thinking of the rewrite referred to in the Order.
Click to expand...

That's interesting. I've been asked to take over the Chief Flight Instructor position for our 141 school which according to this would mean a potential automatic renewal. However, my understanding is that I need to do an annual FIRC in the position. :dunno:
 
The POI at Simuflite renewed ours (IP's and TCE's) under the same or similar provisions.

RotorAndWing said:
When I was working in the CMO we renewed CFI's all the time based upon this. Ask the FAA Inspector who is the APM for your fleet.
Click to expand...
 
RotorAndWing said:
It's up to the individual Inspector.
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And that's written where? Or is that just something they told you at the Academy? Because this:
C. Section 61.197(a)(2)(ii). Individuals have asked FAA about the intent of the statement, “in a position involving the regular evaluation of pilots” in § 61.197(a)(2)(ii) and whether it has the same meaning as the old provision in § 61.197(b) . The FAA rewrote § 61.197 to expand the renewal provisions, mainly to include other PICs. For example, the following PICs , who regularly evaluate pilots, have the same reward provisions as a PIC in a part 121 operation:
· A PIC of a multiple pilot flightcrew aircraft under part 135 ,
· Corporate PICs of a multiple pilot flightcrew aircraft under part 125 or 133 ,
· U.S. military pilots who are PICs of a multiple pilot flightcrew aircraft,
· U.S. military instructor pilots and examiners who regularly evaluate pilots under part 125 or 133 , and
· Flight instructors who actively instruct in part 61 schools.
NOTE: FAA ASIs should review evidence of the applicant’s employment, which should clearly show that the applicant is in a position involving the regular evaluation of pilots. ASIs also should have personal knowledge of the applicant’s flight instructing capabilities and qualities before renewing that applicant’s flight instructor certificate.
Click to expand...
...seems to very specifically limit it to PIC's.
 
Ron Levy said:
And that's written where? Or is that just something they told you at the Academy? Because this:
...seems to very specifically limit it to PIC's.
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Ron, first of all this is the FAA, not the Air Force. :rolleyes2: Not everything is written and defined and then given an "interpretation".

This is usually left up to the individual Inspectors.

NOTE: FAA ASIs should review evidence of the applicant’s employment, which should clearly show that the applicant is in a position involving the regular evaluation of pilots. ASIs also should have personal knowledge of the applicant’s flight instructing capabilities and qualities before renewing that applicant’s flight instructor certificate.
Click to expand...


Secondly, depending upon the airline and operation (such as long haul 777's) there are more than two crewmembers, hence the reason for type rated FO's. And in some airline operations there are type rated FO's who also serve as sim instructors, line training instructors, ground school instructors, etc.
 
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So, there is nothing in writing saying this applies to anyone other than a PIC. I guess it boils down to whether or not Greg serves as a PIC during portions of the flight (like when the Captain is asleep in the crew rest area), and his designation as CAPT or F/O by the company is not the deciding factor. Thank you.
 
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Ron Levy said:
So, there is nothing in writing saying this applies to anyone other than a PIC. I guess it boils down to whether or not Greg serves as a PIC during portions of the flight (like when the Captain is asleep in the crew rest area), and his designation as CAPT or F/O by the company is not the deciding factor. Thank you.
Click to expand...

Not that it matters much, but who should I go see to ask?
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Not that it matters much, but who should I go see to ask?
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Someone with an FAA ASI (Ops) credential who has "personal knowledge of [your] flight instructing capabilities and qualities." Note that R&W went to his old FSDO supervisor.

I suppose if PIC is considered a Part 61 flight school, I could do this with my FAA Safety Team Program Manager, who certainly has personal knowledge of my capabilities and qualities. I did that once about 15 years ago when I was instructing part-time at the local flight school as well as being an Aviation Safety Counselor but didn't have enough "points" to renew on solo/practical test endorsements. The Safety Program Manager signed me off for renewal.

Nevertheless, I did a FIRC this time and found a few things which have changed, as well as some Sport Pilot/LSA things I wasn't sharp on, so it was worth the $100 or so to Gleim to do it that way, although if I'd been thinking smarter, I'd've saved the $25 for them to do the renewal and taken the completion certificate to one of my regular meetings with the FAASTPM and had her sign it for free. Oh, well.
 
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Well, I just finished the American Flyers FIRC for the umpteenth time and next time I will more than likely be 121 PIC legitimately. So hopefully it won't be an issue then.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Well, I just finished the American Flyers FIRC for the umpteenth time and next time I will more than likely be 121 PIC legitimately. So hopefully it won't be an issue then.
Click to expand...
Sounds good. You finally senior enough to upgrade to left seat without ending up pulling reserve on something small or based somewhere unpleasant?
 
Ron Levy said:
Sounds good. You finally senior enough to upgrade to left seat without ending up pulling reserve on something small or based somewhere unpleasant?
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I could have been an Airbus Captain a long time ago, but the flying on that fleet was so oppressive as to be totally unpalatable. With the CAL deal, I think the 737 flying will be better, but I really won't know that until the pilot groups are totally merged. At that point I will be able to see what the 737 flying is like at the 4 domiciles I would be interested in.

At any rate, it will be at least 6 months before I make a change.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Well, I just finished the American Flyers FIRC for the umpteenth time and next time I will more than likely be 121 PIC legitimately. So hopefully it won't be an issue then.
Click to expand...

Tired of breaking in new Captains? ;)

Hope you can hold a line that you like after the upgrade. Kinda sucks if you can't, I hear...
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Well, I just finished the American Flyers FIRC for the umpteenth time and next time I will more than likely be 121 PIC legitimately. So hopefully it won't be an issue then.
Click to expand...

Thoughts on American Flyer FIRC? I've always used Gleim but the AF "pay once" plan seems pretty attractive.
 
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