Ever get permission to fly through R-5107B?

PeterNSteinmetz

PeterNSteinmetz

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Any of the New Mexico pilots know if GA pilots ever get permission to fly through restricted area 5107B on the White Sands missile range?

This one can represent a big detour when flying east or west through that part of NM. So just curious if this is ever flown through.
 
You can ask to go through. They need a good laugh every now and then. I never got through when flying medivac.

I never got through, but everytime I went that way was in daytime.
 
Out of curiosity, do they ever allow a GA plane to go thru any restricted area? Like a MOA, if they are not active etc, can u call the controlling agency and get permission? There is a airport close by that I want to land in to collect stamp and it’s pretty darn close to a restricted area, don’t wanna get shot down in case I get wander into it


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WannFly said:
Out of curiosity, do they ever allow a GA plane to go thru any restricted area?
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Yes. My understanding is that it is frequently approved in some restricted areas. For example, I was told direct flights from Nogales to Sierra Vista are often approved. It depends on the local usage patterns.
 
I launched a half a dozen live JASSM-ERs in that SUA many moons ago (about the one nice thing about that old bomb truck...tonnage). You wouldn't want to be traversing that chunk of airspace with a bunch of stealth missiles doing etch a sketch patterns around them mountains.

But to your actual question, the range isn't live all the time, so it doesn't hurt to ask. Not all restricted areas are as prohibitive. Meaning, the nature of the restricted specification varies. The problem with this one is that it's used extensively for live fire and skunkwork type stuff, and it would take a civilian aircraft a long time to vacate once in the middle of it. There are others that aren't as problematic. 100% chance of not getting it if you don't ask of course.
 
I don't think it's possible to get a permission for R-5107B, unless you're a U.S. Senator or play golf with some Generals. You have to go through El Paso or Albuquerque (well, Abo Gap is enough).

The western extension is often open, although obviously it's not helping you for traveling east-west. Here is a picture of the Spaceport America's runway and hangar, looking west from inside of R-5111B:

20160221-klru-eaa555-05.jpg
 
hindsight2020 said:
But to your actual question, the range isn't live all the time, so it doesn't hurt to ask. Not all restricted areas are as prohibitive.
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He was asking specifically about R-5107B, which 1) is active at all times, 2) extends to all altitudes, 3) has no listed controlling agency and Center cannot get you a permission.
 
WannFly said:
Out of curiosity, do they ever allow a GA plane to go thru any restricted area? Like a MOA, if they are not active etc, can u call the controlling agency and get permission? There is a airport close by that I want to land in to collect stamp and it’s pretty darn close to a restricted area, don’t wanna get shot down in case I get wander into it
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Oh yes. There is a restricted area just east of Gallup that we ignore and don't even ask if it is Ok to go through. It even has an airway through it. Most others I will ask first.

Once in Alaska I got to go through a prohibited area due to weather. It was a live fire area, and the AF was using it that day, but had knocked off for lunch so I got to go through. I was talking to range control, which controls military air traffic in the prohibited area which made it easier to go through.
 
WannFly said:
Out of curiosity, do they ever allow a GA plane to go thru any restricted area? Like a MOA, if they are not active etc, can u call the controlling agency and get permission? There is a airport close by that I want to land in to collect stamp and it’s pretty darn close to a restricted area, don’t wanna get shot down in case I get wander into it


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Yes. Some are rarely hot. Intermttent by NOTAM is your first clue. Many are Mon-Fri, often Bankers Hours. Some are continous. Even those you can get through sometimes. Ask. They'll either say yes or no.
 
Yes, I have flown directly over it.
Once, without requesting it, I got direct KDNA-KSAF. It was a holiday, a few years ago.
 
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Was cleared through the Army’s Yakima firing range restricted airspace once when it wasn’t active. They do all kinds of things there, artillery and tank warfare training, flying helicopters at night with all the lights off, etc.

Looking down as I passed through, my goodness what a desolate stretch of land. Almost no roads. The aerial hazards are not the only reason to avoid restricted areas, my guess is many of these SUAs are over especially inhospitable terrain.
 
WannFly said:
Out of curiosity, do they ever allow a GA plane to go thru any restricted area? Like a MOA, if they are not active etc, can u call the controlling agency and get permission? There is a airport close by that I want to land in to collect stamp and it’s pretty darn close to a restricted area, don’t wanna get shot down in case I get wander into it


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If you're talking about 46D and 8J7, they are both underneath the restricted. R-5403A starts at 8000 and up. R-5403D which is the southeastern half starts at 10000 and up. You can even go under the MOA if you don't want to go through, as that starts at 3500 and up. S32 is under the MOA, but outside the restricted.
 
WannFly said:
Out of curiosity, do they ever allow a GA plane to go thru any restricted area? Like a MOA, if they are not active etc, can u call the controlling agency and get permission? There is a airport close by that I want to land in to collect stamp and it’s pretty darn close to a restricted area, don’t wanna get shot down in case I get wander into it


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Click to expand...

Like 2020 said, depends on the nature of the R area. Specifically, if it’s a security R area or ones that contain hazardous activities not involving aircraft ops (EOD, ground ranges / spotter aircraft) you can get permission to fly through.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Any of the New Mexico pilots know if GA pilots ever get permission to fly through restricted area 5107B on the White Sands missile range?

This one can represent a big detour when flying east or west through that part of NM. So just curious if this is ever flown through.
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I have flown through it several times in jets. I believe it was always weekends and or holidays.
 
The Albuquerque chart just lists No A/G, which just means no air/ground communications, you can't talk to them on a normal frequency. The controlling agency is "Commanding General, White Sands Missile Range, NM", currently Brigadier General Eric L. Sanchez. The airspace is part of White Sands Missile Range and is certainly controlled by Holloman AFB. I suppose you could try contacting them via land line and ask permission before you took off, but why would they grant it? Anyone you could get on the phone would not bother the General with such a question.

In other words, closed via bureaucracy. I think your only option would be a personal connection, but again...what would be gained by letting anyone fly through it.
 
WannFly said:
Out of curiosity, do they ever allow a GA plane to go thru any restricted area?
Click to expand...

When I instructed at Eglin AFB I routinely got permission to use the restricted areas that surround Eglin when they were cold. Approach (called mission control) controlled the airspace and I was a controller there also, so I had that going for me. Which is nice.

upload_2018-3-26_8-56-52.jpeg
 
KaiGywer said:
If you're talking about 46D and 8J7, they are both underneath the restricted. R-5403A starts at 8000 and up. R-5403D which is the southeastern half starts at 10000 and up. You can even go under the MOA if you don't want to go through, as that starts at 3500 and up. S32 is under the MOA, but outside the restricted.
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another one in my list - 9Y2

upload_2018-3-26_9-11-0.png
 
Yes, received permission on many occasions through Cherokee Control for 5107B. I was however a federal officer, working for the Army. There may still be a transition route east-west to the corridor separating 5103 and 5107, it was called Blue Water transition. Haven’t requested it in a few years now.
Think I’ll make some inquiries.
Dave
 
WannFly said:
Out of curiosity, do they ever allow a GA plane to go thru any restricted area? Like a MOA, if they are not active etc, can u call the controlling agency and get permission?
Click to expand...

Yep.

Depends on the R-space area and what's going on at the time. I've flown through several on IFR flight plans.

I was getting a bit concerned when ATC was vectoring me towards the inner circle of the Presidential TFR yesterday. :eek: I like F-16s, but I really don't want them off my wing.
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
I tried it...once.
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wayne said:
Yep.

Depends on the R-space area and what's going on at the time. I've flown through several on IFR flight plans.

I was getting a bit concerned when ATC was vectoring me towards the inner circle of the Presidential TFR yesterday. :eek: I like F-16s, but I really don't want them off my wing.
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I don't mind F16 on my wing as long as they are not intercepting me, on second thought, I am actually worried about their safety.. nothing else.. if I am happily buzzing around at 90 kts... don't think a F-16 can keep up with me without stalling :biggrin::biggrin:
 
I've gotten through both IFR and VFR here. Never hurts to ask. We even called up in advance when we had a gaggle of planes coming up from Southport, NC to First Flight. They gave me their reporting points and we briefed the pilot. They held up the exercise as our first plane hit the checkpoint and we got everybody through.

Patuxent has always very good about getting me through the areas over the lower Chesapeake. Sometimes the R area is cold, sometimes they can arrange a transit of one that is active.
 
The restricted areas around Fort Smith, AR aren't used anymore since we lost the A-10s. Approach will clear you basically 100% of the time through it. I think they been hot once in several years and that was for some bomb disposal.

NOW the restricted area just north of Little Rock is used about every weekend. You DO NOT want to fly through it doing pattern work at KORK. Unless you like dodging mortar rounds from below and above you. o_O
 
flyingron said:
Patuxent has always very good about getting me through the areas over the lower Chesapeake. Sometimes the R area is cold, sometimes they can arrange a transit of one that is active.
Click to expand...
When I was a regular there fish spotters often got exclusive use of 6609 from ~3K to the surface.

Nauga,
who popped up
 
I've flown that area a zillion times, and only have gotten to clip 5107A and 5107K. My FIL worked with Patriot and was later in charge via Raetheon for those missile launches. It was declassified at the time of his retirement, but they once put 30 manned jets in that area with 25 hostile drones and more following and fired over a 100 patriots off to make sure they didn't go after a "friendly" by accident (I don't think you'd want to be participating in that ;)). The scud missle "miss" that hit the barracks back around Desert Storm 1 was a computer chip error requiring a time/date reset every 24 hrs or it'd be a little off.
 
I've been cleared through the Bliss, McGregor, WSMR Restricted area a few times. Once the Albuquerque controller out of Deming volunteered it. Direct DMN to CME. Also the Fort Sill OK Army controllers will clear you through the Ft Sill Restricted areas, call them on 118.6 (VFR) or 120.55 (IFR). Ft Sill also has a VFR corridor just to west of I-44 up to about 3500. Really nice if you are going north. Again contact the Ft Sill Army controllers to make sure it clear and then keep your head down ;).

Really though I don't count on getting cleared thru the R-57XX areas and going south of them by way of WHOLE and EWM doesn't add that much distance.
 
I was cleared through R-5601 A&B several times at Ft Sill. Some times by specifically asking, others Approach simply directed me through. They also had a narrow corridor between the two areas which followed I-44. I used it frequently.

I flew through the restricted area as an Aerial Observer in an OH-58A while the area was hot...but I was the one directing the artillery fire from the helo.


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My only experience transiting R-5107B was while riding thru on a Southwest flight one Sunday. I understand it’s consistantly busy.
 
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