Ethical Question (Web Design)

RJM62

RJM62

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Geek on the Hill
From time to time, I'm approached by a potential client with a service business who wants a site built, but I have an existing client in the same geographic area and who is a competitor to the prospect.

In these cases, I usually ask the prospect to send me a description of his or her company's service area, then I send that description to the existing client and ask if there's any significant overlap. If there is, then I decline the new job.

One prospect, however, asked me if I'd be willing to code the site based on his specifications (in other words, his design sketches and content that he himself wrote), and then turn it over to him entirely and not touch it again (no continuing optimization on my part).

Does anyone have any thoughts on the ethics of this?

Thanks,

Rich
 
Another possibility: This client already has a site that he's basically happy with and that I think he built himself. All he wants is a mobile version, it seems. So if I just built the mobile template and stylesheet and not the content, would that be hands-off enough?
 
I admire your forethought into the ethics of this but it sounds like you should be alright, you're taking someone else's idea and putting in on to paper... so to speak ... I think I would be alright with that idea. Do they sell the exact same thing? If so I can understand the conundrum.

If you created a website for a Chevrolet dealer in your town would you feel obligated to not create a website for the Ford dealer? Or think of a furniture store? Lot's of them sell beds and tables, but they're made by different manufacturers.

How's the turtle tank doing?
 
Thanks for your input.

The turtles are doing fine, although there's a bug in the timer somewhere that causes the nightlight bulb to not always work properly. The turtles aren't too happy that their feeding schedule has been reduced to every other day, which is appropriate for their age; nor do they particularly love the ZooMed "Growth Formula" pellets that are the staple of their diet, although they do eat it. They much prefer the treats like brine shrimp or bloodworms that they get every week or so.

But they're not unhappy (or hungry) enough that they're eating the available fish very often. A few of the minnow fry even survived to young adulthood.

-Rich
 
Unless you held out to your original client that they had the exclusive rights to your services in their geographic area, I don't think you have any obligation to turn down other work at all. Your selling web design services not the service that is being advertised. I think your only obligation is to not use your knowledge of the business 1 in your efforts to build a good web design for business 2.
 
I too admire your ethics. When I did custom software jobs, I discussed ownership of the work up front. I usually stated that they had "perpetual rights" to use and modify the software I developed but if they wanted "exclusive rights" it would cost more. I wanted to keep the software in my library and reuse it for any similar jobs that came up.

I see your case as similar. I don't believe there is any legal problem working for a competitor unless there was some discussion or contract provision against it. Assuming of course that there is no confidential information involved in the job.

I personally would not have a problem helping someone implement their ideas even if I had worked for a competitor.

It might be worth a phone call to your previous customer to discuss their expectations. I would not reveal the name of the potential new customer but rather discuss if they felt there were any implied restrictions on your business. I doubt they would try to limit who you could work for.

Joe
 
Build the site.

...Unless you specifically discussed a non-compete clause, or are going to re-use something that you built for the other company (which by contract they own).



RJM62 said:
Does anyone have any thoughts on the ethics of this?

Thanks,

Rich
Click to expand...
 
TV stations run ads for competing businesses all the time. Ad agencies often work on competitors ad campaigns.

I see no ethical issues at all, as long as you don't show a preference for one or the other.
 
I perhaps should have mentioned that my usual renewal fee includes, in addition to hosting, continuing optimization services. So these clients pay me every year to tweak their sites and try to keep them ranking well on Google, etc. That's where my ethical conflict comes in: How can I optimize two competing sites, both of whom are paying for that service?

A few clients over the years have elected not to renew the optimization part, and instead pay me a hosting fee only. I don't have any ethical problem if that's the case. I'm renting them space, and nothing more. My ethical problem is only in cases where an existing client is still paying me to keep them on the top of the search engines, and a competing client inquires about my building a site for them.

There is no exclusivity clause. The client owns the site in perpetuity (except for a few custom scripts, mainly spam-filtering forms), but there is no non-compete agreement. This is strictly an ethical, not a legal concern.

Thanks again,

Rich
 
If your work means that both sites "tie" in the search engines, then you've met your obligations to both clients to "optimize" their sites.

Optimal = as good as it can be within the given constraints.
Optimal <> Superior

Example - I strive to optimize my flying skills. Even when they are optimal, it doesn't mean I'm as good as Bob Hoover was.
 
Thanks for all the input. I think what's going to happen is that I'm going to build the template and stylesheet for the new client, and he'll take it from there. Everything's controlled by the stylesheet, so building the actual pages is easy, code-wise. This will keep me hands-off the content and optimization and will avoid any conflict of interest.

I could probably make more money if I didn't worry about things like this...

Thanks again,

-Rich
 
I'm still trying to figure out what the problem is but maybe I don't know enough about website design. It would be like saying that we shouldn't fly people from company A if we fly people from company B because they both make widgets and are in competition with each other.
 
Everskyward said:
I'm still trying to figure out what the problem is but maybe I don't know enough about website design. It would be like saying that we shouldn't fly people from company A if we fly people from company B because they both make widgets and are in competition with each other.
Click to expand...

In that example, you wouldn't be directly involved with the business of widgets.

In my case, my goal is to get every client page 1, position 1 for relevant searches on Google and other search engines. I'm very often successful within the industries in which I specialize.

I do this by tweaking, tweaking, tweaking. A lot of it is guesswork, because the algos are highly secret. But some of it is just knowing the kinds of terms that people use to search for my clients' services, and writing the pages accordingly. I try to answer the questions in advance, based on my experience (and sometimes guesswork) about how they will ask those questions.

I don't tease the robots both because that can have nasty consequences if the algos change, and because Web pages should be written for humans. It's entirely possible to have a page that Google loves, but which doesn't convert because it's not human-friendly. So I concentrate on content relevancy, along with structural efficiency and correctness in the coding.

But how do I do this if I have two clients selling exactly the same service in the same markets? Because these are service businesses, the searches are geographically sensitive. If I have two guys doing widget repair in Podunk, how to I try to make both of them number one for searches on "widget repair podunk?"

It would be like the same lawyer representing both sides in a civil case, or the same pit captain working for two drivers in the same auto race.

Maybe I'm making too much of it. I just don't feel comfortable in that position.

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
In my case, my goal is to get every client page 1, position 1 for relevant searches on Google and other search engines. I'm very often successful within the industries in which I specialize.
Click to expand...
I understand the difference now. There's more to website design than I thought.
 
Everskyward said:
I understand the difference now. There's more to website design than I thought.
Click to expand...

More than my clients think, too. They have no idea how much work goes into their sites after they're built, poring over stats, agonizing over word placements, trying to learn regional dialects (so I can better predict what search terms people will use), and so forth.

That's probably why my most loyal clients are those who already had sites that weren't performing. They see the difference and are happy to pay for it. Those who never had sites before just take it for granted.

It's also why my most successful sites all belong to a narrow group of industries. The better I understand their industry, the better the sites perform. I've taken on a few assignments where I failed miserably because I just didn't know enough about their industries to predict how people would search for their products and services.

-Rich
 
If I only sold my services to non-competing customers I would have like 5 customers instead of 200. Almost all my customers are contract manufacturers.
 
RJM62 said:
Need a Web site? B)
Click to expand...

Actually, mine needs serious, serious, serious overhaul. Mostly because we are too damn cheap to pay anyone to do it, and I get stuck trying to cobble some lame thing together.
 
Do you have nondisclosure / confidentiality agreement in place with the first client?

If so... then you might want to pass to avoid any conflict of interest and any future litigation from your current client.

If not... as long as you don't use the exact same design, look, and feel as the first client, you should be fine.
 
EdFred said:
Actually, mine needs serious, serious, serious overhaul. Mostly because we are too damn cheap to pay anyone to do it, and I get stuck trying to cobble some lame thing together.
Click to expand...

Well, send me the URL if you want. Doesn't cost anything to look at it.
 
Rich,

I can see why your clients are loyal.

It seems the goal to make them #1 on the search results is what's causing your angst. I think most if not all your clients would be very happy with being in the top few.

I hate to suggest anyone lower their standards because low standards are THE big problem with our society (just look at what California elects for politicians).

I would suggest that you discuss this with your client, especially now that you've found a solution. You might find they wouldn't mind you working with competitors as a matter of fairness.

JMHO.

Joe
 
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