Ercoupe Weekend

tonycondon

tonycondon

Gastons CRO (Chief Dinner Reservation Officer)
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
Messages
15,459
Location
Wichita, KS
Display Name
Display name:
Tony
The local ercoupe got sold to a pilot from Ankeny, and his insurance wanted 5 hrs of dual before he solo'd it. At first he thought this was a little excessive but he gave me a call and we flew yesterday. The coupe he bought is pretty nice, last owner put an SL40 and Garmin Transponder in it, has a nice intercom and as far as ercoupe's go thats a darn nice panel! It also has a huge venturi driven attitude indicator as well as heading indicator. both are WWII surplus I think, the heading indicator is one of those old ones that reads like a compass. Also it has a radio compass (?) I think, has an ADF like indicator that shows your heading. that thing is a monster.

Sadly, this Ercoupe has been corrupted with rudder pedals. However it seemed that the aileron/rudder interconnect still worked fine. We started out with basic airwork stuff and then landings. lots of landings. Took Mark a few to figure out landing in a crab and getting the nosewheel down after touchdown. We went down to the grass strip where he will base the airplane. its about a 2200 foot long grass with Interstate 80 at the south end. It was good to see the takeoff and climb performance there, and I hope he'll follow my recommendation to pick up any passengers and the neighboring regional airport.

Today was more landings, more airports, and more wind. South winds gusting up to 25 knots greeted us everywhere and we enjoyed the challenge. of course in the coupe there's no challenge. The only landing that was squirelly was the one where we tried to use the rudder to line up the nose before touchdown!

Heres the coupe I was flying

So 5 hrs in 2 days has implanted the ercoupe smile back on my face. what a fun flying airplane!
 
Tony the 170B I am working on has the same insruments. Caged Attitude Indicator very large. DG reads like a compas very large, and a remote compas with a heading bug, Very nice but the remote is again very large. I almost needed a crane to get the panel up in place. I also installed a SL40 and Garmin transp. I would have trashed everything but the remote compas in this plane because it is not really needed. with a remote compas you do not need a DG, it acts like a slaved HSI. Without a VOR you really do not need an AI especially one as large as that one.

Dan
 
tonycondon said:
So 5 hrs in 2 days has implanted the ercoupe smile back on my face. what a fun flying airplane!
Click to expand...

FIVE hours checkout? Wow, and this for an airplane that was designed from the outset to be flown with minimal training.

How many hours did the student have?
 
Sounds like a hoot!

Too bad I can't fit in an Ercoupe. :(
 
student has around 200 hrs i think. owns a 300 hp 182 and part of a Tri Pacer.

5 hrs does seem excessive but we used it to travel around to some area airports, and focused mostly on takeoffs and landings. yes as you and I know the ercoupe is a really easy airplane to land, but it is a lot different than any other kind of airplane. speed control is critical, that thing really starts to sink if you get to slow. he also had to get used to a much smaller pattern as a result of the high sink rate. then there was the whole landing in a crab thing and also getting the nose wheel down after touchdown so that he could steer. it just goes against about everything that you've ever been taught and practiced. It was also important for him to get some time seeing what the climb was like on takeoff. He's basing this thing at 2300 feet grass with Interstate 80 at the south end. He's used to 1000+ FPM climb rates.

In the end I think that both of us felt that the 5 hrs was well worth it.
 
Jay Honeck said:
FIVE hours checkout? Wow, and this for an airplane that was designed from the outset to be flown with minimal training.
Click to expand...
That might be an offshoot of the whole LSA business: insurance companies are requiring 5 hours for anyone transitioning into an LSA, and even if this Ercoupe isn't an LSA-eligible version, the insurance company probably treats it like one.
 
Skypilotcfii said:
The two my Dad owned were very noisy. This was before ANR Headsets so bet that helps. If it gets really hot - above 90 - climb rate on the ones my Dad had really went down.
Click to expand...

Because of the parabolic dome-shape of the canopy (I'm guessing) the Ercoupe is the loudest plane I've ever flown. Our Lightspeed Twenty 3Gs were useless in them, completely overwhelmed by the wind and engine noise.

After speaking with Alan Schrader, president of Lightspeed (and one of the all-around good guys in aviation), I purchased two pairs of their new "Zulu" headset. Alan guaranteed that they would work in our Ercoupe, and he was right.

The Zulus improve the Ercoupe experience 100%. It's probably the most fun-flying aircraft out there (and flying with the top down on a warm summer day is priceless!), but the cacophany in that cockpit meant that I always landed with a headache. The Zulus resolve that problem wonderfully -- and we use their many other features when we fly our Pathfinder, which has XM and CD stereo on board.

As for climb rate, well -- if you've got full fuel and two aboard, you're probably at (or over) gross. With just 85 horsepower to work with, it's not a stellar performer -- but it's sipping just 4.4 gallons of car gas per hour. It's as close to free flying as you're gonna get, so I can forgive abysmal climb performance when the payback is cheap flying!
 
Sadly, aviation like many aspects of our litigious society, is driven by insurance. I'm not what might be an appropriate "DUAL" number or total time for a checkout in a new aircraft, but I wish insurance would leave it up to the instructor signoff rather than a fixed number.
 
silver-eagle said:
I wish insurance would leave it up to the instructor signoff rather than a fixed number.
Click to expand...
They did, once upon a time - and found that instructor signoffs weren't good enough to lower accident rates. That's the whole reason for the 5 hours they're requiring for an LSA transition.
 
CJones said:
Sounds like a hoot!

Too bad I can't fit in an Ercoupe. :(
Click to expand...

I didn't fit either -- my head hit the canopy.

Solution: My A&P made me a seat that positions me 2" down, and 2" back from the original. It's still a tight fit -- the Ercoupe is a very small plane -- but it works great!'
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Chris,

Sure you can. Just leave the windows (which are also the roof!) open, and put some goggles on! :yes: :D
Click to expand...

Jay Honeck said:
I didn't fit either -- my head hit the canopy.

Solution: My A&P made me a seat that positions me 2" down, and 2" back from the original. It's still a tight fit -- the Ercoupe is a very small plane -- but it works great!'
Click to expand...

My problem was that I hit at both top AND bottom. My head stuck out of the top about 3" and my knees wouldn't fit under the control panel. I felt like a clown in one of those circus cars or something.
 
Jay Honeck said:
I didn't fit either -- my head hit the canopy.

Solution: My A&P made me a seat that positions me 2" down, and 2" back from the original. It's still a tight fit -- the Ercoupe is a very small plane -- but it works great!'
Click to expand...

Interesting. Did he get a field approval for the modified seat? How was the paperwork signed off?
 
Bump for more Ercoupe discussion. I am working toward my Sport Pilot ticket and have chose the Ercoupe at the local flight school. I want to eventually buy one as soon as I get signed off to solo, then continue my instruction in my own plane. Very cool little LSA. I have heard more than one person mention flying above gross weight (1320 with the STC.) The gross weight would be easy to exceed with a passenger and full fuel (24 gals.) If this is routine, it doesn't seem safe, yet alone legal. Thoughts?
 
You can get away with a lot if you have plenty of runway and fly on a cool day. But, if anything goes wrong, your margins are gone and, of course, every decision you made gets examined with a microscope. Choose wisely!

Is the 'Coupe you're flying still stock - no rudder pedals? As Tony alluded to in his (five years ago!) post, the interconnects apparently work well, and everyone I have spoken to who fly Ercoupes, love them. Without rudder pedals.

Let us know how it all goes, and as always, pictures are appreciated!
 
oh i miss flying ercoupes. fun little planes. yes hopefully the one you had has not been corrupted with rudder pedals. in the coupe they are barely effective below cruise speed and don't do anything for crosswind correction except make you land in a few degrees less of a crab. With the student i started this thread about we finally decided that his attempt at crosswind correction was making his landings worse and just went back to landing a coupe the way it was meant to be, with left foot flat on the floor and right foot ready to press the brake.
 
The Ercoupes do look like a ton of fun. Truthfully I think low power planes are more challenging to fly because your takeoff/climb performance is worse. But then you have to be able to deal with the extra power that exists in a high performance plane. I'm also an unashamed power junkie, as evidenced by every vehicle I own... Except the Harley.

Funny part is that even with a 450 HP daily driver I typically shift it at 2,000 RPM.

WRT insurance requirements I do think they tend to be a bit on the high side, but also understand their reasoning for it. They get out of line on certain things like when I started flying the Navajo and they wanted 50 hours of dual, but then again when I started teaching a new Navajo owner how to fly it, I think the 50 hours we spent together was time well spent.
 
This one does have the rudder pedals, but the one I buy will not have them. It is an unnecessary weight penalty in my opinion.

jw-ercoupe.jpg


Ercoupe is Affordable Solution to School’s Sport Pilot Needs

By Scott Spangler on March 27th, 2008

News that a flight school now offers sport pilot training is quick to catch my eye. The March 2008 the Oklahoma Aviator reported that Oklahoma’s Chickasha Wings Inc. had added an Ercoupe 415-C to its fleet, which also includes two Cessna 150s, a 172, and a Piper Apache. Sport pilots can train in and rent the 415-C because it, like many J-3 Cubs and Champs, meets the light sport-aircraft weight and speed limitations.

The school went LSA shopping because "we have had many calls asking for sport pilot rentals," Mitch Williams, owner, says in the article. "We looked at new light sport-aircraft and legacy taildraggers and decided the Ercoupe was the best fit for us with its electric starter, tricycle gear, and side-by-side seating."

Calling him for more information, Williams says asking a solo student to prop the plane is a liability hazard, and it is "really windy here in western Oklahoma, and if I’m teaching someone to fly in [a taildragger], we’re gonna have to pick our days."

Going first to the vendors of new light sport-aircraft, getting something he could rent was $100,000, more than he wanted to spend. "I might spend $50,000 or $60,000, but I didn’t want to pay the big insurance and all that on having to borrow money."

Rental fees was another consideration. The hourly rate for any of the new LSAs would probably be $89 or more, Williams says, adding that "you’re always going to have a rental ending in 9; that’s just how it is [laughs]."

Williams paid $20,000 for the Ercoupe 415-C, which rents for $59 an hour solo and $79 dual. It has flown about 50 hours in its first two months, paying off on the calls that led to Chickasha Wings’ to offer sport pilot training. One caller has already earned his sport pilot certificate.


Receiving several sport pilot calls a week, price was–and is–the primary draw, Williams says, adding, "They want a cheap way into aviation." A good number of callers are older pilots flying ultralights who need training and an aircraft to rent for their sport pilot checkride.

The Ercoupe has its original two-axis controls, elevator and interconnected rudder and ailerons, all controlled by the yoke. On the floor is a single brake pedal. Chickasha Wings was going to install a rudder kit, but with all the STC’ed kits the steering stays with the yoke and its aileron input. That means, Williams says, when using a wing-down crosswind correction, the nosewheel is pointed in the wrong direction at touchdown.

Those who take a checkride in the Ercoupe and go on to three-axis controls will need a "mini-checkride," says Williams. "We solo them in their three-axis control and then they go for a short checkride–three times around the pattern–with the examiner."

"I’d like to think it has increased business," Williams says. "Just this month [March] I’ve had two new guys come in and say they want to get their sport pilot." To see how it goes I’ll follow up later this year, after the fun flying season really starts. — Scott Spangler
 
*sniff*

This thread makes me miss Sweety, our old Ercoupe.

I especially miss her at the gas pumps... :D
 
My brother had an Ercoupe without rudder pedals. I recognize his statements in yours about the sink rate. He mentioned that a lot. He also told me it is critical for an Ercoupe that the "rubber doughnuts" (somewhere on the main gear, I think) be in good shape. It makes the aircraft have a slightly negative angle of incidence on the ground to keep the nose wheel down. He said it was the most fun airplane he had ever flown.
 
yea for having a nosewheel the ercoupe has a very high fun factor. crosswind landings on our clubs 24 ft wide runway were a lot of fun too, with the window down. cruising between dying cu on a summer evening was also a blast.
 
When I was learning to fly at Murvihill's back in the late 60's they had a J3, a PA12 a 172 and an Ercoupe. I never flew the Coupe but there was a story that Mark used to tell about it. He was giving lessons to a student and as they were on final he sat in the right seat with his arms crossed looking out the right side window. When they touched down it was a little rough so when Mark turned to the student he noticed that he too was sitting there with his arms crossed looking out the left side window.
 
Silvaire said:
When I was learning to fly at Murvihill's back in the late 60's they had a J3, a PA12 a 172 and an Ercoupe. I never flew the Coupe but there was a story that Mark used to tell about it. He was giving lessons to a student and as they were on final he sat in the right seat with his arms crossed looking out the right side window. When they touched down it was a little rough so when Mark turned to the student he noticed that he too was sitting there with his arms crossed looking out the left side window.
Click to expand...

That rat thar is FUH-NEE! :goofy:
 
In defense of peddles in the Ercoupe: Back in the day, when the 'Coupe was less then 20 years old, a friend had one with some serious mods. Big engine with inverted capability, beefed up center section and tail and peddles, and it was wicked quick and aerobatic. It was like flying a mini fighter plane. He flew it up and down the East coast on the airshow circuit for a number of years before some mouth breather slammed into it with a fuel truck.
 
Jay Honeck said:
FIVE hours checkout? Wow, and this for an airplane that was designed from the outset to be flown with minimal training.

How many hours did the student have?
Click to expand...

Remember, it was an insurance requirement for 5 hours of dual instruction. Pretty much the norm if you have 0 time in make/model.

The hard part is finding a CFI with experience in make.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top