Ercoupe 415C

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tomlatta

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Tom Latta
Any opinions on acquiring an Ercoupe 415C for instruction for Sport Pilot and subsequent use? I have a Student Certificate and Class 3 Medical expiring 9/30/05, and have pretty well decided not to risk seeking renewal of the medical.

Tom Latta
 
they are a well made aircraft, a little different from most, but cheap to operate.
 
I've not yet had the pleasure of flying an Ercoupe, though it's on my list. They have an active user's group which should be helpful when it comes time to look for parts and whatnot. Have you shopped for one yet? Have you found an instructor who understands the sport pilot regs?
 
tomlatta said:
Any opinions on acquiring an Ercoupe 415C for instruction for Sport Pilot and subsequent use? I have a Student Certificate and Class 3 Medical expiring 9/30/05, and have pretty well decided not to risk seeking renewal of the medical.

Tom Latta
Click to expand...

Tom,
I have a lot of fond memories of a 415C N99778 that I owned in the 60 es.
I remember it so well, I bought it and brought in home on my wife's birthday
(9-11) I explained it was her birthday present which did not go over well. It was a great little plane as soon as I got used to idle feet. If you decide it will bring you hours of fun. :yes:

Jim
 
555 Juliet-

I have been looking on Ercoupe websites to see what's available. Predictably, since the adoption of the Sport Pilot regs, the availablity has declined and the prices have you know what. I don't know of any pilot with a 415C who is a CFI, or a CFI who is instructing in a 415C. It would probably be a good idea to go through the Ercoupe owners club and inquire. I do know of Marshfied Aviation at Marshfield Airport (3B2) in Mass., which have one or two 415C's they instruct in for the Sport Pilot certificate, but that's a little far to go from the San Francisco Bay Area.

Thanks for your post.
 
That's not surprising. Good luck with your search!

The flight school here at Frederick, Maryland (also a little far from the Bay area, sadly) recently bought a 415C to put online for sport pilot training. They are having rudder pedals installed. They are claiming that the FAA is requiring them to do this.

A friend of mine who once owned an Ercoupe called that a "terrible thing to do to a wonderful little plane."
 
555Juliet said:
That's not surprising. Good luck with your search!

The flight school here at Frederick, Maryland (also a little far from the Bay area, sadly) recently bought a 415C to put online for sport pilot training. They are having rudder pedals installed. They are claiming that the FAA is requiring them to do this.

A friend of mine who once owned an Ercoupe called that a "terrible thing to do to a wonderful little plane."
Click to expand...

555Juliet;

Thank you for your post. I am about 2 hours away from FDK and might take a look at flying it some day. There is no place here on the Eastern Shore yet that has a 415C or any of the new sport planes

Too bad that the rudder pedals have to be put in. It truly was a plane that was ahead of it's time. I did get a ride in one so long ago and it was fun to fly with the canopy open.

Thanks again


John
 
John J said:
555Juliet;

Thank you for your post. I am about 2 hours away from FDK and might take a look at flying it some day. There is no place here on the Eastern Shore yet that has a 415C or any of the new sport planes

Too bad that the rudder pedals have to be put in. It truly was a plane that was ahead of it's time. I did get a ride in one so long ago and it was fun to fly with the canopy open.

Thanks again


John
Click to expand...

If you didn't have to fly, the rudderles plane was fine. Rudders add a lot of extra condition abilities to the plane.
 
Henning said:
If you didn't have to fly, the rudderles plane was fine. Rudders add a lot of extra condition abilities to the plane.
Click to expand...

Thank you Henning for you note

Yes the rudders do add much more to the plane. Fred W. when he designed the plane wanted to build a plane that was safe and easy to learn to fly. It was quite a new concept for he designed the plane before WWII. Of course later versions had rudders but it is nice to see some early attempts to make flying easier for people. I remember some pilots in the late 1950's and early 1960's did convert some to rudders for more control issues. The landing gear is what helped so much in the rudderless planes. Good trailing design soaked up a lot of thumps in cross wind landings.

John J
 
FYI-

Since the Ercoupe is certified as a Standard Category aircraft without rudder pedals it is difficult to understand how the FAA could "require" their installation for Sport Pilot...................

The Ercoupe rudders only move outboard, so in a turn only the inside rudder is deflected, and then only a small amount, adding rudder pedals simply gives you a place to rest your feet, they are ineffective and a waste of money.

Tom-
 
CAUTION: Always tuck your RH foot under the brake pedal during landing in a standard two-control Ercoupe, it is VERY easy to forget it's not a rudder and attempt to use it to keep the nose straight on landing........................hopefully you only do that once and hopefully it is on grass........................been there, done that......................

Tom-I began my career at Skyport, the original home of Skyport Ercoupe Services
 
And some Ercoupes were built in Maryland! I hadn't known that until reading up on the history on the owners' web site.
 
555Juliet said:
And some Ercoupes were built in Maryland! I hadn't known that until reading up on the history on the owners' web site.
Click to expand...

College Park, IIRC.
 
Lots of great postings on the Ercoupe, glad to see the interest. :yes:

I read something a while ago that if a private student takes instruction in and uses an Ercoupe without rudder pedals for the examiner check ride, his or her certificate will state that it is limited to single engine land airplanes without rudder pedals. Since the Ercoupe, I believe, is at present the only certificated airplane without rudder pedals, the private pilot's certificate would be effectively limited to act as pilot in command only of such Ercoupes. Rather limiting I would think.

I assume the FAA could do that in the case of a sport pilot certificate too, which might make instruction in a rudder pedal-less Ercoupe not very attractive. Having talked to the folks at Shoreline Aviation at Marshfield MA Airport not long ago, I learned that they have recently sold the 4 Ercoupe 415C's, all without pedals, in which they had been instructing for the sport pilot certificate. It was my understanding that they found that the Ercoupe was not adaptable to their school very well, not that lack of pedals was the problem. I was assured that the airplanes themselves were solid and fun to fly, and they had spent about $10K on each one to bring it up to their standards. Of course, they sold all 4 for a good price.

Tom
 
FYI-

It has been 50 years since there was a two-control limitation added to the certificate of an applicant who took a flightest in an Ercoupe.

All Ercoupes were built in Riverdale MD, the plant is now the distribution site for NOAA Aeronatical charts, Sectionals. Aircoupes were built in Carsbad NM and Fort Collins CO, Alon Aircoupes were built in Wichita KS.

Tom-
 
Thanks Skyport for setting the record straight.:)

I found one of the sources for my misconception on the Ercoupe Owners website, and after your correcton I see that I misinterpreted it. What the author of "Why Buy a Coupe" was saying is that there have been known to be certificates issued in such cases that are "restricted to the abilities of the plane they used in their check ride". I had seen other discussions of that to mean that since the Ercoupe was designed not to enter a full stall, that element of the private PTS could not be demonstrated by the aspiring private pilot, and some examiners therefore limited the certificate to planes of similar abilities.

Do you know if that is correct?

Tom
 
Tom-

The examiner can only pass or fail an applicant, he is not authorized to add a personal limitation to a certificate. As noted earlier there hasn't been a limitation on a certificate issued after an Ercoupe checkride in 50 years, I could be slightly wrong-it could only be 45 years.........................

I just read "Buy a Coup" and after reading the the appropriate Advsory Circulars and FAR 61, in particular 61.31, I can see no evidence to support the issuance of a limitation. Since the FAR's very clearly require an endorsement for Complex, High Performance, Tailwheel, etc., and list all Category and Class ratings and there is no mention of two-control or Ercoupe this remains an "Old pilot's story" as far as I'm concerned. If a limitation is now official policy I would like to know the details and see where it is documented.

Tom-



Tom-
 
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I got my certificate in March of 1956 and there was no limitations on it.
 
Welcome Ron E. I love the Ercoupe. I tried to buy one when I shopped but the family nixed the idea. I am going for the Experimental LSA to instruct SP in. I'd still like to have an Ercoupe though.
 
tomlatta said:
Any opinions on acquiring an Ercoupe 415C for instruction for Sport Pilot and subsequent use? I have a Student Certificate and Class 3 Medical expiring 9/30/05, and have pretty well decided not to risk seeking renewal of the medical.
Click to expand...

We just went through this process in the spring, so my knowledge base is pretty fresh.

We ended up buying a '48 "E" model because the Light Sport models are so weight-limited as to make them essentially single-place aircraft. We passed on a nice "C" model precisely for this reason.

In fact, I don't honestly know how anyone does flight instruction or check rides in a "C" model without busting the max gross weight limitation. You put two regular-sized guys in that plane with any fuel, and that plane is over-gross, every time.

That said, the Ercoupe is a great plane. We bought ours and formed a family flying club with two other families, so that our kids would have something affordable to fly. The plane sips mogas at 4.5 gallons per hour, and is great fun to fly with the top down. It's easy to fly, easy to land, and we can rent it to the kids for a whopping $15 per hour, dry. Even my 18 year old college-student son can afford that!

BTW: I found the lack of rudders to be completely bizarre, at first. However, after flying it all summer we have discovered that (a) the interconnected rudder/aileron linkage keeps the ball centered better than most pilots can WITH rudder pedals, and (b) it can be landed in a much higher cross-wind than most rudder-equipped aircraft. You simply land in a crab, and the big tires and beefy trailing-link landing gear take care of the rest. The tires chirp, the plane straightens out, and all is well.

See ours here:
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/2008_ercoupe_first_flight.htm

Here's one with my son:
http://tinyurl.com/3z2jr4
 
tomlatta said:
555 Juliet-

I have been looking on Ercoupe websites to see what's available. Predictably, since the adoption of the Sport Pilot regs, the availablity has declined and the prices have you know what. I don't know of any pilot with a 415C who is a CFI, or a CFI who is instructing in a 415C. It would probably be a good idea to go through the Ercoupe owners club and inquire. I do know of Marshfied Aviation at Marshfield Airport (3B2) in Mass., which have one or two 415C's they instruct in for the Sport Pilot certificate, but that's a little far to go from the San Francisco Bay Area.

Thanks for your post.
Click to expand...

Thing about an Ercoupe... just get in it and fly it. Seriously, it was marketed to learn how to fly from the manual being basically "crash proof". If you can fly anything at this point, you can check yourself out in an Ercoupe.
 
jbelew said:
Tom,
I have a lot of fond memories of a 415C N99778 that I owned in the 60 es.
I remember it so well, I bought it and brought in home on my wife's birthday
(9-11) I explained it was her birthday present which did not go over well. It was a great little plane as soon as I got used to idle feet. If you decide it will bring you hours of fun. :yes:

Jim
Click to expand...
Mrs. Belew is a very forgiving woman.....
 
555Juliet said:
That's not surprising. Good luck with your search!

The flight school here at Frederick, Maryland (also a little far from the Bay area, sadly) recently bought a 415C to put online for sport pilot training. They are having rudder pedals installed. They are claiming that the FAA is requiring them to do this.

A friend of mine who once owned an Ercoupe called that a "terrible thing to do to a wonderful little plane."
Click to expand...

They can claim anything they would like. The FAA is making them do it or the certificate earned in one has a restriction. That is not the same thing
 
Jay Honeck said:
In fact, I don't honestly know how anyone does flight instruction or check rides in a "C" model without busting the max gross weight limitation. You put two regular-sized guys in that plane with any fuel, and that plane is over-gross, every time.
Click to expand...

No, you're not over gross every time. I sure am not. I guess it depends what you mean by regular-sized guys.

Once people get in the heavier range... if they're both that size, they're not going to fit in an Ercoupe anyway.
 
I enjoyed flying the Ercoupe that was based at Rapid Air in Grand Rapids a few years ago.
Those slide-down windows are a hoot. We (slowly) circumnavigated a nearly-stationary cumulonimbus cloud. It felt like you could reach out and touch the cloud.
There was a comment about landing in cross winds in this thread. The Ercoupe was not designed to land with a strong cross wind. The landing system is amazing with the way it corrects on landing. But I don't think you should push your luck and ground loop the machine.:blueplane:
ApacheBob
 
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