Engine per heat option?

J

Jthamilton

Line Up and Wait
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Okie182
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If everything goes as I hope it does with the prepurchase on the t182t I'm looking at I'm going to need means to preheat it.

What's the best way to go here? Tanis....reiff(sp) who else makes reputable product? Also what kinda cost am I looking at?
 
Do you have access to electricity/hangar, or not? Answer is different depending on what you can do...
 
Jthamilton said:
Yes that would be one option, but not the most economical and hard to bring hangar with me with full fuel puts it a little over gross.:D
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Pre-heating on the road is very subjective to the conditions you will find at each airport. Electrical connections can be far and few between. The only one that works every where is the little red box that runs on Av gas.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/ncpreheater.php

Just be sure this guy
http://ultimategear.stores.yahoo.net/airpreh.html

is totally out before you throw it in the baggage compartment.
 
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I've had a Tanis since I put the big engine on the Navion. No problems. I used to have a timer/thermostat that turned it on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday mornings when it was below 45 outside. I've replaced that with a GSMAuto that I can send a text message to a few hours before I am going flying now.
 
flyingron said:
I've had a Tanis since I put the big engine on the Navion. No problems. I used to have a timer/thermostat that turned it on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday mornings when it was below 45 outside. I've replaced that with a GSMAuto that I can send a text message to a few hours before I am going flying now.
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:eek:

I just googled that. That is a very cool device, and the web site has a video for a remote control aircraft heater project.

http://www.gsm-auto.com/
 
Tom-D said:
Pre-heating on the road is very subjective to the conditions you will find at each airport. Electrical connections can be far and few between. The only one that works every where is the little red box that runs on Av gas.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/ncpreheater.php

Just be sure this guy
http://ultimategear.stores.yahoo.net/airpreh.html

is totally out before you throw it in the baggage compartment.
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The OP already said there's power in the hangar.
 
I bought my DA40 with Tannis already installed. It cranks easier in the winter than the months I don't need it. It gets pretty cold in Upper Michigan. I've heard that Rieff heaters also work well. Six of one or a half dozen of the other.
 
I let some hunters stay in my hangar during bird season and they gave me a heater that is glued on the Oil pan with that blue silicone. It has worked on my 182 for a number of years now. I don't know the brand name however.
 
It's nice to note what the heater manufacturers say vs what the engine manufacturers say here:

http://www.reiffpreheat.com/FAQ.htm#QA3

quote
Here's what Continental and Shell Oil have to say on this issue:

The manual for the Continental IO-550 says "WARNING: Do not leave engine mounted pre-heater systems on for more than 24 hours prior to flight. Continuous operation of engine-mounted pre-heater systems may result in aggressive corrosive attack to the engine internally."

Shell Oil staff research engineer Ben Visser says in an Aeroshell ad on the benefits of preheating : "One final note of caution: Do not plug in a heater and leave it on for extended periods of time. If you have moisture in your oil, the heater will increase the vaporization of the moisture, which will condense on the cool, nonheated engine parts and increase rusting."

Notice neither Continental nor Shell make any distinction as to the type of engine heater used (multi-point vs. oil heater only), or whether an engine cover is used or not. As stated above, I think logic tells us that these are important considerations. Mr. Visser seems to acknowledge this in a later article in Cessna Owner magazine, July 1998: "Oil pan engine preheaters - these are fine if used before flight, but do not leave the units plugged in. These units will gradually evaporate moisture from the oil, but the rest of the engine is still cold, so you end up with a humidifier cabinet that will rust the bearings and other engine components."

The bottom line is, you should evaluate all the above information and weigh the risk of corrosion against whatever benefit you may realize from leaving it plugged in.
 
I have Reiff heaters on the Aztec and Tanis heaters on the 310. The Reiff setup is significantly cheaper. Both work well.

I think the Tanis heaters make for a cleaner installation, and the company is also much nicer to deal with. I would go for Tanis any day.

I will point out that Tanis did donate the system on the 310 to Cloud Nine. However after talking to both Tanis and Reiff, Reiff's communications (which were very rude) had me willing to pay the extra money simply for doing business with a nicer company.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I have Reiff heaters on the Aztec and Tanis heaters on the 310. The Reiff setup is significantly cheaper. Both work well.

I think the Tanis heaters make for a cleaner installation, and the company is also much nicer to deal with. I would go for Tanis any day.

I will point out that Tanis did donate the system on the 310 to Cloud Nine. However after talking to both Tanis and Reiff, Reiff's communications (which were very rude) had me willing to pay the extra money simply for doing business with a nicer company.
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That's very good to know, service is pretty darn important to me! I want someone to appreciate that I purchased their product.
 
Tom-D said:
It's nice to note what the heater manufacturers say vs what the engine manufacturers say here:

http://www.reiffpreheat.com/FAQ.htm#QA3

quote
Here's what Continental and Shell Oil have to say on this issue:

The manual for the Continental IO-550 says "WARNING: Do not leave engine mounted pre-heater systems on for more than 24 hours prior to flight. Continuous operation of engine-mounted pre-heater systems may result in aggressive corrosive attack to the engine internally."

Shell Oil staff research engineer Ben Visser says in an Aeroshell ad on the benefits of preheating : "One final note of caution: Do not plug in a heater and leave it on for extended periods of time. If you have moisture in your oil, the heater will increase the vaporization of the moisture, which will condense on the cool, nonheated engine parts and increase rusting."

Notice neither Continental nor Shell make any distinction as to the type of engine heater used (multi-point vs. oil heater only), or whether an engine cover is used or not. As stated above, I think logic tells us that these are important considerations. Mr. Visser seems to acknowledge this in a later article in Cessna Owner magazine, July 1998: "Oil pan engine preheaters - these are fine if used before flight, but do not leave the units plugged in. These units will gradually evaporate moisture from the oil, but the rest of the engine is still cold, so you end up with a humidifier cabinet that will rust the bearings and other engine components."

The bottom line is, you should evaluate all the above information and weigh the risk of corrosion against whatever benefit you may realize from leaving it plugged in.
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Makes sense, since the engine isn't running and providing a way for the moisture to escape.
 
TMetzinger said:
Makes sense, since the engine isn't running and providing a way for the moisture to escape.
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You are absolutely right there is no way for the moisture to get out, following some bad advice from some one not in the know might cost you your engine.

Flying the engine until the water has dissipated, an removing the oil filler cap when you put the aircraft in the hangar will do as much to remove the water as you can do.

Pre-heat the engine before you fly, and do not leave the engine heater on all the time.
 
Best method.

60 watt lightbulb under the cowling, on full time.
remove the oil cap after flight.
sleeping bag thrown over top of cowl.

This will keep the engine 20 degrees warmer than ambient, with no possibility of vaporizing any water in the oil.
 
I lived in New England . . . and had a hangar with electricity - heat the hangar hahahahaha

I went cheap. I bought an oil sump heate or under $100. Installed it for an hour of my A&P's time. And got a large moving blanket at Harbor Freight for $10.

Go out the day before I'm gonna go somewhere - turn on the heater-0 the next am the oil is at 65 or so and the engine it warm at the top - even if its 0-10F out the night before -

Depending on how you operate you don't need a $750 solution. . .
 
comanchepilot said:
I lived in New England . . . and had a hangar with electricity - heat the hangar hahahahaha

I went cheap. I bought an oil sump heate or under $100. Installed it for an hour of my A&P's time. And got a large moving blanket at Harbor Freight for $10.

Go out the day before I'm gonna go somewhere - turn on the heater-0 the next am the oil is at 65 or so and the engine it warm at the top - even if its 0-10F out the night before -

Depending on how you operate you don't need a $750 solution. . .
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There are several inexpensive options including the old standby trouble light under the cowl, a silicon pad from the aircraft department at NAPA,
to one of the many aviation oriented pan heaters, but none of those will work very well outdoors on a cold windy night. And that's where the Tannis and Reiff products shine. The pan/cylinder combinations are also capable of taking an engine from a too cold 10F to an acceptably warm 35-40F in less than one hour. Some sump only heaters can raise the oil temp just as readily but that leaves the cylinders rather cold on an otherwise easy starting engine.

The Reiff system is definitely more affordable and IME easier (i.e. less expensive) to install but both work very well. There was a time when Tannis didn't heat every cylinder and was somewhat incompatible with multicylinder engine monitors but their current version is every bit as good as Reiff's. As to the communication issue Ted had with Reiff, my experience is just the opposite (although to be fair I wasn't looking for a donation and I think Reiff should have been more accommodating there). Tannis is based at my home field and although their products are a bit overpriced IMO, they will go the extra mile for their customers without hesitation. I have Reiff's full up system on my engines (two metal encased heaters with thermostat on the pan plus a band on each cylinder) and have always been impressed with how well it works. At the time I paid a little more than half of what Tannis was charging.
 
I use a sump heater with moving blanket thrown over the cowl. Works pretty good - nice easy starts on cold days. The sump heater is a couple hundred watts and has a thermostat. I believe that it doesn't "cook" the oil but won't know until engine tear-down. It does warm the entire engine (somewhat).
 
gismo said:
The pan/cylinder combinations are also capable of taking an engine from a too cold 10F to an acceptably warm 35-40F in less than one hour.
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+1. I'm not sure that I would consider 35F "acceptably warm", but I have found that even during very cold spells, a mere 2 hours with my Reiff will raise the oil temperature to 75-80F. (Overnight brings it up to about 130F -- it's almost TOO warm, and the electric bill is another reason NOT to run it continuously.)
 
azure said:
+1. I'm not sure that I would consider 35F "acceptably warm", but I have found that even during very cold spells, a mere 2 hours with my Reiff will raise the oil temperature to 75-80F. (Overnight brings it up to about 130F -- it's almost TOO warm, and the electric bill is another reason NOT to run it continuously.)
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35F is a temp that the manufacturers will generally agree is sufficient for starting without preheat and I think it stands to reason that when the cylinders and oil have reached that temp you won't be causing excessive wear when starting and I know from personal experience that most engines in good condition will fire right up at or above 35F. That's not to say that it isn't better to get things a bit warmer and it is likely that the innards will be a little cooler than the cylinder heads and oil sump.
 
We have a Reiff heater system in an unheated hangar.

But we wonder if an Oilamatic system wouldn't be better. Having built a number of high-performance car engines with pre-oilers, it's pretty hard to argue against them.
 
The sump pads are pretty easy either Reiff or Tanis. One thing I like about Tanis is they have a wider variety of cylinder heating options than just the Reiff rings. What I have is thing that attaches to the cylinder using a narrower screw inserted through one of the rocker cover holes. The thing works well.

It's pretty trivial to hook up the GSM-AUTO to a plug and receptacle. It's got two relays inside (I've got one receptacle feeding the heater, haven't figured out anything interesting to do with the second one). The one drawback is that my hangar at CJR is entirely metal (metal roof, metal doors, metal walls) and it doesn't have very good cell coverage inside. Fortunately, I had left over from another project a extension cellular antenna that I poked out through the eaves to fix that.

Of course, the perfect idea is my hangar down in NC26 which has radiant floor heat and never gets below 50 degrees.
 
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