Engine Monitor

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Code90

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Code90
Our partnership is considering adding a JPI engine monitor to our 77 Lance at the next annual. We currently have the original EGT to watch (that sometimes needs a tap to come off zero and give a reading). Any ideas out there as to if this would be a good addition? Considering the EDM700 vs EDM730. Do others like theirs?
 
If you're confident that nothing will ever go wrong with the monitor and that you'll never need customer service then go with JPI.

If you even have the slightest inkling that you'll ever need something worked on then go with EI.

And, yes, it would be a good addition IMO.
 
When I asked a similar question to an Aviation MX expert I was steered away from EI due to the fact that their engine monitors did not seem to have user selectable warning thresholds.

It seemed like a good idea having those features, especially given the difference between CHT red line and the "community opinion" in what the CHTs should be kept under.
 
Yes.....get the monitor....and see what you've been missing. Once you see the CHTs and learn how to keep them cool (under 380 deg F)....your engine will thank you.

and what Tim says too. :D
timwinters said:
If you're confident that nothing will ever go wrong with the monitor and that you'll never need customer service then go with JPI.

If you even have the slightest inkling that you'll ever need something worked on then go with EI.

And, yes, it would be a good addition IMO.
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my EI was already installed with the plane. It was a basic UBG16, but as Tim mentioned, EI's customer service is awesome.

I almost consider an engine monitor a necessity now that I've gotten used to having it in the panel.
 
I started with the 800 and the upgraded to the 830 when that came out. I've been happy with them. I do like the fuel flow on the 830 (along with RPM and MP). Puts everything right in the scan (mine is installed directly to the right of the "six pack").

Yes, the 700/730/800/830 is configurable 9 ways to Sunday. It's relatively straight forward even though mapping everything into the two buttons is a bit tedious.

I've never had any issues with JPI customer service.
 
To the original OP, yes, it is one of the best investments IMHO you can make in your plane. I discovered when my first one was installed back in the 1990s that the factory EGT probe was attached to the supposedly "hottest" #3 cylinder which would peak first.

In reality, the #3 cylinder in my plane is rarely the cylinder with the EGT temperature that peaks first. The engine monitors of today also are capable of monitoring many more parameters and the data can be downloaded and analyzed for anomalies.
 
Iv4nK said:
When I asked a similar question to an Aviation MX expert I was steered away from EI due to the fact that their engine monitors did not seem to have user selectable warning thresholds.

It seemed like a good idea having those features, especially given the difference between CHT red line and the "community opinion" in what the CHTs should be kept under.
Click to expand...

Well, he might not have been much of an expert then because the EI warnings can be set wherever you want to set them.
 
I've been happy with my JPI. 4 years and 700ish hours of trouble-free operation.
 
Having had an EDM700 in our Cheetah in the 90's, an EDM760 in our Cougar 15 years ago, and an EDM930 in the Tiger for the last 8 years, I don't see how you can go wrong with a JPI EDM device. The only question is which one, and that's a matter of which features you want. If all you want is EGT/CHT, the 700 should do fine. If you want more, check them out and see what's available and what fits with your desires and budget.
 
Iv4nK said:
When I asked a similar question to an Aviation MX expert I was steered away from EI due to the fact that their engine monitors did not seem to have user selectable warning thresholds.

It seemed like a good idea having those features, especially given the difference between CHT red line and the "community opinion" in what the CHTs should be kept under.
Click to expand...
You need to find a new expert. I have changed my thresholds, but it is not intuitive. with only the two buttons, programming is a bit cryptic. You need to have the manual handy.

I have the JPI EDM 700 and am happy with it, so I can recommend it. I have no experience with the others though.
 
The Mooney came with JPI, great tool, and it has helped us detect engine problems.
 
timwinters said:
Well, he might not have been much of an expert then because the EI warnings can be set wherever you want to set them.
Click to expand...


I wonder which EI he was referring to. The EI CGR-30P like the other primary engine gauge replacement units (like the 930) are supposed to be set to POH parameters and not changeable by the user. This is what allows them to be considered primary (i.e. Factory) gauge replacements.

The JPI 830 I have is not primary and therefore I am required to have the factory gauges in place and I am allowed as a user of the device to change temperature ranges and set warnings.

I'm not sure if the EI CGR unit has user settings for warnings independent of the fixed setting ranges that allow them to be primary replacements.
 
I've been using a JPI 700 for four years with no problems other than a bad RPM probe. I also have EI avionics and have found their customer service outstanding, vs not so good with JPI.

I am upgrading my EDM-700 to a 730 in a few days ($200 rebate starting 11/1) because the display on the 700 is not easy to interpret while flying. Better to have it all displayed, like the 730.

Alarm settings are easy to set at any temperature point you like. I set CHTs to 400 degrees, oil temp to 200, etc. As long as they aren't primary replacement instruments, you can set the alarms where you want. With primary instruments, such as my EI OPT-1, the alarm is hard set at 245 degrees for oil temperature and 25 degrees for pressure, and this is not changeable per the FAA. Bureaucracy screws us again. So while the OPT-1 is my primary oil temp and pressure instrument, I rely on my EDM-700 to alert me at a value that actually gives me time to do something before my engine melts.

Personally, if I had it all to do again, I'd take a serious look at the Electronics International

CGR-30P



or the CGR-30C.

30c1.png


Edit: Just saw Marauders post... The two EI's above, or any primary replacement indicator cannot be changed. Range marking is done at the factory and is not user configurable.
 
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Ted DuPuis said:
I've been happy with my JPI. 4 years and 700ish hours of trouble-free operation.
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I truly believe that JPI makes just as good of, and possibly a better, instrument than EI does. But they are close enough to be a coin toss. I'm sure JPI will make you a happy camper as long as you have "trouble-free operation."

But...

The difference between the two companies is in their customer service. I have read about, and have first hand experience with, horror stories when things go wrong with JPI instruments. OTOH, (as relayed here before) here's what I've personally experienced with EI (and I know of quite a few others with similar stories):

timwinters said:
I bought and installed a UBG-16 in my 182 right after I bought the plane back in 2004. I have 6 CHT, 6 EGT, Carb Temp, Oil Press, Oil Temp, & Voltage.

I installed everything in a weekend (2 long days, probably 18 to 20 hours total but that counts beer breaks). An A&P IA buddy oversaw, inspected and signed off on the work.

10 years later everything's still working well. The oil pressure sending unit was replaced once, in 2007, out of warranty but still at no charge.

The engine monitor itself was replaced in '08 due to a "leaking display." EI replaced it under warranty even though it was two or three years out of warranty at the time (you can't beat EI's customer service, especially considering some of the horror stories I've heard about JPI's customer service).
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When I start hearing good (and first hand) customer service stories about JPI that rival the many I've heard about (and personally experienced with) EI (and how they replace components that are well out of warranty) then I might change my tune about strongly suggesting that that folks buy EI. But, from what I know, the customer service at JPI = that at Garmin. The difference being that Garmin pretty much has a lock on their market but with JPI there is a viable alternative.
 
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timwinters said:
Well, he might not have been much of an expert then because the EI warnings can be set wherever you want to set them.
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I could have sworn I looked at the EI manual(s) and couldn't find any reference to setting the warning limits.

Was this present on all their models? I think I was looking at a G2 or a G3 back then

EDIT: :yikes: The more observant among you will notice that I have mixed up EI with Insight Avionics. Apologies for the confusion.
 
When I was looking at JPI and EI I had read of the customer service concerns associated with JPI. I spoke at length with both. The one thing that stuck in my mind after the conversations was that JPI talked about the features and reliability of their units and said nothing about EI. When I spoke with EI the entire time was spent discussing the bad customer service of JPI. That left me with a sour taste.

Lastly, at the time EI did not have a single unit able to measure the temps and fuel flow. EI would have required me getting a second unit for fuel flow so I want with JPI.
 
It's never good to bash the competition...stand on your own merits.
 
FWIW, I've never had to use the customer service of JPI regarding my 830.
 
My 185F has a 700, all the planes I've ever flown for work with engines over 400CUI have had JPIs, never had a problem with them. It adds piece of mind for me to be able to see what each cylinder is doing, especially in the soup or on x-countries.
 
Thanks for all the advice. I would definately like to have something to monitor the engine closer. Have plans to fly over Appalachains to Charleston WV and plans to fly to Marsh Harbour, Bahamas. Would make me more comfortable when the motor makes any kind of strange noise (as always seems to be heard in those kinds of flights).
 
JohnAJohnson said:
Personally, if I had it all to do again, I'd take a serious look at the Electronics International

CGR-30P



Edit: Just saw Marauders post... The two EI's above, or any primary replacement indicator cannot be changed. Range marking is done at the factory and is not user configurable.
Click to expand...
I had my engine overhauled this past spring and put a CGR-30P in when the engine was installed. When you purchase this monitor there is paperwork that you and the mechanic fill out specifying what airplane it is going in and the engine it will be monitoring. From this information they will set up the alarms based on what the requirements are. There are some user settings you can program but they are limited. The thing I really liked about the CGR-30P was that it fit in my old tach hole. That made installation pretty easy. I did have to install annunciator LED's on a plate below my radio stack. My monitor came with a probe for outside air temperature that would also work in the carb. I already had a digital OAT so I put the probe in the carb. It is neat when I do my run-up checks seeing this temperature increase when I add carb heat and not just an RPM drop.
 
My Dakota had an EI UBG 16 when i bought in. I really like it. We added fuel flow for a few hundred dollars at the last annual.

They were great to ask questions with on the phone. They have more modules available at a reasonable cost... well reasonable for aviation.
 
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