Engine Failure at Night

ajstoner21

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Andrew
Has anyone ever had an engine failure at night? If so, How did it end?


I was out flying the other night. I was about 5 miles south of my departure point, and my engine had a nasty sputter. I honestly thought it was going to quit. Preflight inspection looked fine, and the runup seemed perfectly fine.

After a second, the engine was running fine, and the engine instruments looked normal. It seemed to be producing normal power output. So, I'm thinking maybe some water got pumped in from the fuel truck that didnt settle in time to get drained during the dirt/water checks.
 
No, and the older I get, the smarter I get and try to avoid SEL cross country at night.

I still have done it (as recently as last year -- a flight from MGW to CSG), but would rather not. I've flown around here plenty enough during the day to know the odds of landing on a flat, unobstructed field are 1 in 200 million.
 
I've often heard people say that at night you should aim away from lights to avoid people.

quite frankly: F THAT

I am aiming for a highway because out here anything that is unlit is the everglades, and forests, neither of which could survive a landing.


I'll take my chances with what I can see rather than what I cannot
 
I was relatively familiar with the area. Enough to know that, there are plenty of places to land (in day light...).

The sputter had scared me enough, I had immediately went to glide speed (I was actually pretty close to it already, I was still climbing out) and started looking around and realized its next to impossible to tell if that "big black area" is one of those many fields I know are around, or the patches of trees that I also know are around.


Oh well, Luckily nothing happend.
 
I had a stuck valve in a 172 at night and for a few minutes, felt like it was all over til I figured out what was wrong.
We lost a local MD when his 172 ran out of gas at night. Hit the only tree for hundreds of feet in a field near Baytown. :(
 
The sputter had scared me enough, I had immediately went to glide speed

Did you pull the carb heat?


I had a stuck valve in a 172 at night and for a few minutes, felt like it was all over til I figured out what was wrong.

You mean a stuck engine intake or exhaust valve? How did you fix that?
 
It was fuel injected. No carb heat.
Had full tanks, tank selector on both.
 
You mean a stuck engine intake or exhaust valve?
yes. Exhaust.
How did you fix that?
as I recall.....the rope trick with liberal application of lubricants was the first temporary 'repair', reaming and a new valve was a longer term repair, and the conclusive repair was cylinder r&r ie new guides. This was about 30 years ago. O-300D
 
I think MSPAviator was wondering about what you did while in the air flying with a stuck valve.

Did you fly with a stuck valve until you landed?
 
Few years back, we were at a weekend destination, flying in the flying club's Cherokee (a very nice 180), and my analysis of the weather told me that flying home the next day would be dicey at best in that plane (OK, I did not savor hard IFR in the plane). So, we packed up and left Saturday night.

On climb-out, maybe 500' AGL, I swore I felt a hiccup, as in "MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMBFMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM"

I just about dukeyed my drawers. Climbed out in a big circle over the field, looking for any indication of any kind of anything at all wrong. Nada.

Flew it on home, and all was well. Hell, maybe I never heard anything at all. But that nothing sure did grab *my* attention.
 
A local DPE who is a friend had an engine failure at night... walked away with his wife. A guy who I flew with for a few training flights when he'd already been signed off by another instructor was with his aircraft partner in the plane a few months fafter he got his license. They had some sort of power failure and didn't survive. I'll be honest. Flying at night can be really fun, as long as everything works well. I still don't do it much unless I have a compelling reason to, like students.

Ryan
 
One of my past instructors has a photo card in his wallet. One side has a nice old picture of an Ercoupe. The other side has a photo of what turns out to be the exact same aircraft in a great many pieces and bent so wildly and burnt it's hard to recognize there's even an aircraft at all.

He likes to place it on the counter near a new student, bad side up, to see if they'll ask what it is. Then he flips it over and says, "Same airplane the day before. My Ercoupe."

He was doing night pattern work at KBJC when he lost the engine on takeoff. He put the aircraft back on the ground, lost directional control, and ended up in a ditch, upside down. The place was a ghost-town around midnight.

A fire started, he received numerous 2nd and 3rd degree burns extracting himself, and then walked to a pay-phone on the field. (In the 1970s). The phone was at what is now known as Rotors of the Rockies. It's a long hike from the runway environment to there. Less/no fences back then, I believe.

Sheriff dispatcher started a police vehicle his direction, no fire/ambulance services. An off-duty Sargent with one of those "fancy new radios" mounted in his personal vehicle, responded and showed up to find the pilot in extreme shock, sitting on the ground, burnt badly and could see a fire was burning in the grass way over at the runway.

He called the dispatcher and said he wanted the fancy new "Flight For Life" helicopter launched immediately. And a fire truck. Dispatcher started the helo and called to wake up the Sheriff for approval.

Helicopter scooped up the pilot who was now in and out of consciousness, plopped him at Denver's St. Anthony Central Hospital a few minutes later and he spent a very long time living in the burn ward. Doc said if they'd have transported him in an Ambulance, he would have died of cardiac arrest enroute.

All this from a little business-card sized photo if you asked. A little shocking to hear after our second lesson in the Husky.

That instructor didn't have a very high regard for night flying at deserted airports, or aircraft not equipped with a fire-extinguisher. He does have a very high regard for EMS pilots and modern dispatch systems and procedures. He credits two-way radio and EMS helicopters with his being alive today.

He was into his early seventies in the mid-1990s and I've heard he was still instructing in taildraggers up until about five years ago. (?) Very little rattled him but he demanded top-notch directional control at touch-down, and not just because it was a taildragger.

I'm still young/dumb enough to happily complete a leg or two a year at night, and purposefully stay night-current at all times with pattern work at KAPA, but there's a manned tower and EMS is less than 1/4 mile down the entrance road.

I recently did some late-night pattern work at KBJC, but was reminded of this story while doing it. The place is still a ghost-town at night. Not my most stellar decision-making, thinking about it later on.

Maybe. I dunno.

I'll probably keep night flying until I give myself a good scare -- and if I survive it, then I'll probably stop. I like it too much, and my life insurance is paid up and no kids... but it wouldn't take a whole lot of work to convince me it's not worth it.

Again, shrug... Dunno. Just sharing the story.
 
I've often heard people say that at night you should aim away from lights to avoid people.

quite frankly: F THAT

I am aiming for a highway because out here anything that is unlit is the everglades, and forests, neither of which could survive a landing.


I'll take my chances with what I can see rather than what I cannot


You may survive the landing in the Everglades, question is can you wrestle an alligator successfully at night...
 
While there is no evidence of a "flying at night/over water" sensor inherent in all aircraft engines, it seems to be a universally-held belief that engines somehow know when you're flying at night, over water, etc., and choose that particular moment to develop a hiccup. The Mooney used to do that to me.

The closest I've had to an engine failure was about three months ago in the 310. I took off out of Manchester, NH at night heading back to Williamsport. The initial departure leads you around terrain, without any good landing areas. Run-up was fine. However by the time I sucked the gear up, the right engine just sounded funny. Pulled back to climb power and saw that the #6 cylinder on my right engine was rocketing through 470F.

In a single, I would've been heading back for the airport as quickly as I could. In the 310, it was a non-event. Pulled the engine back to about 15" to diagnose the problem. Turned out that one of the magnetos suffered a failure on takeoff, and I had a slightly fouled plug on the other mag on that cylinder.

Made it home without incident, got the problem repaired at home. Two engines and an engine monitor turned what could have been bad into a complete non-event.
 
You may survive the landing in the Everglades, question is can you wrestle an alligator successfully at night...


could I wrestle one even in the daytime?

of course!

not...
 
While i was going to Farmingdale from Newport, RI over the LI Sound (not at night, and not out of glide range, but far enough) I heard a sputter, and the engine nearly quit. Since I had just leaned it I figured that was the problem, and i immediately pushed it full rich. It ran fine for about a minute after leaning, but something must have changed in that minute.

To quote a guy I fly with sometimes: "I dont fly single engine at night without an ejection seat."
 
During my PPL training I did a night cross country to Cleveland, Ohio. It went pretty late, so I didn't get back until late at night and wasn't in particularly early the next morning. When I got in my postdoc looked at me like he'd seen a ghost. Apparently someone went down and died that night on my route in an aircraft similar (at least in the ears of a non-pilot) to mine. He was working on his CV to get another job. And that's in Ohio. Be careful.
 
could I wrestle one even in the daytime?

of course!

not...

The question is not "Could I wrestle one?" Of course I could. The question is "Who would win?". :wink2:

John
 
My engine threw a plug last spring and it was daytime (posted about it here)

Of course that airplane isn't night legal, but it really made me think about options and lack thereof at night.
 
I think MSPAviator was wondering about what you did while in the air flying with a stuck valve. Did you fly with a stuck valve until you landed?

Ya, I flew it back to the runway while everything was banging and vibrating.
 
Of course that airplane isn't night legal, but it really made me think about options and lack thereof at night.

In a single, you're just limited on them. You can have backup alternators, you have two magnetos, but sometimes your only option ends up being down.

That can happen with a twin, too, but if you have the right twin, it's a non-event.
 
I had a problem similar to Ted's last week departing Alexandria in instrument conditions. On the climb, #5 on the right engine got hot: egt spiked and CHTs where quickly rising. So, I reduced MP in the climb on the right. Back in the days I flew a single, I would have been asking AEX for an approach back in.

In the twin, I climbed to 12,000 keeping the right CHT under 400; then, leveled off and leaned. When I did, the #5 EGT and CHT momentarily went to no reading; then returned to normal. My right seater and I surmised there was a piece of crud in there that cleared out. Cylinder has flown normally since.
I may have been able to do the same thing in a single, but it would have been much more stressful.

Same thing departing in low IMC (also with icing) conditions which I did yesterday from Oshkosh. I would spend much more time planning a possible return to the field in a single if there was a problem, knowing if it was an engine issue, I'd probably not make it unless I had partial power.

Best,

Dave
 
I had a problem similar to Ted's last week departing Alexandria in instrument conditions. On the climb, #5 on the right engine got hot: egt spiked and CHTs where quickly rising. So, I reduced MP in the climb on the right. Back in the days I flew a single, I would have been asking AEX for an approach back in.

In the twin, I climbed to 12,000 keeping the right CHT under 400; then, leveled off and leaned. When I did, the #5 EGT and CHT momentarily went to no reading; then returned to normal. My right seater and I surmised there was a piece of crud in there that cleared out. Cylinder has flown normally since.
I may have been able to do the same thing in a single, but it would have been much more stressful.

Same thing departing in low IMC (also with icing) conditions which I did yesterday from Oshkosh. I would spend much more time planning a possible return to the field in a single if there was a problem, knowing if it was an engine issue, I'd probably not make it unless I had partial power.

No doubt about it. It's not just the case of an engine failure, it's the case of other failures that either 1) could lead to an engine failure (but didn't) or 2) could otherwise lead to an overload or other bad situation.
 
Yep -- the problem is knowing what is down there -- that dark spot might be a grassy field, or it might be a quarry.

:eek:

If ya don't like what you see, just turn the light off.
 
The closest I've had was when on final the windscreen seemed to become opaque. This was a dual night x/c flight during my primary instruction. CFI was perplexed, I was bewildered. I was already a bit disoriented because it was very dark (black hole approach) and at the last minute I realized I forgot the height of the trees under us as noted in the AF/D. "Fly the plane" had already been beaten into my head and CFI kept the chant going.

Rolled to a stop just clear of the RWY and pulled the aircraft on the ramp. I discovered the oil dipstick tube had come unseated because a screw had back out of the retainer. The worst was we didn't have anything to clean the window of petro products. Luckily the outhouse had plenty of TP. Examined O-ring, salavaged a replacement screw, and added 2 QTs and made good our return to original airport.

Now if you had asked about total electrical failure at night....
 
I enjoy flying at night, it's very peaceful. Although I must admit that it can be alarming in the right seat with a student at MDA on a non-precision approach. Being so far from the airport, while so low, with the ground solid black.
 
I wonder if having night vision goggles handy would be of any utility in finding a decent forced landing site?
 
I wonder if having night vision goggles handy would be of any utility in finding a decent forced landing site?

It depends on the available light conditions. It may increase your odds slightly, but only if you have Gen III or IV equipment. The resolution at distance is just not that great.
 
I wonder if having night vision goggles handy would be of any utility in finding a decent forced landing site?

Better than without NODS?

Sure.

Worth having them along?

Maybe.

Edit: Ask folks who use NODS /NVDS for a living -- takes lots of training and currency.
 
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I enjoy flying at night, it's very peaceful. Although I must admit that it can be alarming in the right seat with a student at MDA on a non-precision approach. Being so far from the airport, while so low, with the ground solid black.

It can be similarly alarming when you're surrounded by terrain and looking for the airport.

Fortunately, John and his crew do a good job.
 
I think MSPAviator was wondering about what you did while in the air flying with a stuck valve.

Did you fly with a stuck valve until you landed?

Andrew, that made me laugh. :) Knowing Dave, I don't think he got out and walked...
 
Andrew, that made me laugh. :) Knowing Dave, I don't think he got out and walked...


I only say that because I know someone else who said they had a stuck valve, but said it came unstuck. So I didn't know if there was something weird you could do that would unstick it in the air
 
I only say that because I know someone else who said they had a stuck valve, but said it came unstuck. So I didn't know if there was something weird you could do that would unstick it in the air

Try full throttle, max RPM prop (if CS) with aggressive leaning and getting the carbon and lead to burn off, but if it's full time stuck (often not, often it sticks and unsticks, sticks and unsticks...) that won't help either.
 
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