End of a Saga...

LDJones

LDJones

Touchdown! Greaser!
Gone West
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Jonesy
I've previously told the story here of my 50-something student who was denied a medical due to a antidepressant prescription which was prescribed solely to alleviate some physical symptoms related to menopause, nothing related to depression. She went off those immediately and reapplied after the required period with a letter from her Doc stating why they were prescribed and that they were no longer needed.

But in responding to that issue he sent her whole medical file to OKC. That opened a medical fishing expedition that was breathtaking in scope.

A note about a heart murmur at birth triggered a demand for a full cardio monitoring process and stress test. She passed with flying colors....she's in better shape than a lot of 30-somethings.

Another note in her records mentioned one brother and her mother suffered from migraines. She's only had two headaches that she can recall, but they demanded proof that she didn't suffer from migraines.

She'd also been prescribed some eye drops for dryness in one eye due to wearing contacts for four decades.

After waiting almost two months since the last submission of paperwork, and supposedly continual monitoring by AOPA's service, out of frustration she finally wrote her Senator's office and asked for help.

Magically, one week later her medical arrived....almost a year to the day since this saga began.

Interestingly, the Special Issuance is based on the migraines she's never had and she will need a note from a Doc every year saying she still has never suffered from migraines. :rolleyes2: And a note saying her eye dryness is still not an issue.

She had halted flight training after the third round of the fishing expedition. Today, we flew for the first time in three months and I was ready to solo her after half a dozen perfect touch and goes. The runway was a bit slick so she opted to postpone her solo for better runway conditions. Maybe tomorrow....maybe Tuesday. We'll see.

I'm glad this is behind her.

A question for Dr. Bruce: What's required to ultimately knock out the SI? Is that possible after a period of compliance demonstrating no issues?
 
Loren, please pass on my best wishes. Glad she didn't let the paper pushers get the best of her.
 
asgcpa said:
Loren, please pass on my best wishes. Glad she didn't let the paper pushers get the best of her.
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Thanks. She's pretty excited to be moving forward. I think the real reason she postponed the solo was the prospect of soloing caught her by surprise after a three month hiatus, plus she wants to carry with her a first-solo trophy that her father (long deceased) received after he soloed almost 50 years ago.
 
Doc Bruce has bailed out of the forum for a while. I have not seen him back on this week.

May need to send him a pvt email.
 
Bruce has had some activity on the AOPA board
 
The well meaning physician did not need to send extraneous information. Too bad Dr. Bruce was not involved from the beginning.
 
Glad to hear your student will finally solo. I was at 95 hours before I soloed because the FAA went on a fishing expedition after my first flight physical. It wasn't quite as outrageous as what you're describing though.

A Special Issuance because of someone's family history? YHGTBSM.

This is yet another reason why the 3rd class for light GA ops has got to go. :yes:
 
When you write to your Congressmen to urge them to support HR3708, info like that in this thread would provide a good example of why it is needed. Y'all are writing aren't you??
 
Gary F said:
The well meaning physician did not need to send extraneous information. Too bad Dr. Bruce was not involved from the beginning.
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It is SO very important that the original submission is the best effort that can be done. You don't get a second chance to make a first impression.
 
So much for all the people who say the FAA looks for reasons to give people a medical. Sounds like the opposite to me. Bunch of busy bodies with way too much time and money apparently. How many people have had a sudden migraine that resulted in their complete incapacitation and a plane crash in the history of flight?
 
DFH65 said:
So much for all the people who say the FAA looks for reasons to give people a medical. Sounds like the opposite to me. Bunch of busy bodies with way too much time and money apparently. How many people have had a sudden migraine that resulted in their complete incapacitation and a plane crash in the history of flight?
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Migraine headaches can be incapacitating and rare cases can result in stroke like symptoms. The question is if they had sufficient reason to pursue this as a diagnosis.
 
My uncle died from prostate cancer - maybe I need that work up for my 3rd class renewal . ..

How do you prove you have never had a migraine headache other than saying . . . I never had a migraine headache? And whats the point of that?
 
The FAA is your friend,my AME says they are trying to issue medicals not deny them. It's a good thing Light Sport came along ,as I don't trust big gov. Especially the FAA?
 
Very glad she got the medical issued! And that she's going to solo!

RJM62 said:
Yeah, but look how much safer a place the world is now. :rolleyes2:

-Rich
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SCCutler said:
Indeed.

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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"Out of an abundance of caution...." Or more specifically, protecting their own keister - no one in any government position wants to be called on the carpet by either Congress or the media & asked "why did you authorize this" when someone gets hurt. That encourages overly conservative decision-making & removes judgment from the equation. It's been that way for a while and continues to get worse (I recall a zoning board member telling me that he hoped the development proponent would take them to court because the project was allowed "of right" & should have been approved - he hoped it would go to court because the judge was not subject to election as he was, and therefore the judge would be blamed instead of the zoning board).

"We're from the government, we're here to help you.
 
wsuffa said:
Very glad she got the medical issued! And that she's going to solo!











"Out of an abundance of caution...." Or more specifically, protecting their own keister - no one in any government position wants to be called on the carpet by either Congress or the media & asked "why did you authorize this" when someone gets hurt. That encourages overly conservative decision-making & removes judgment from the equation. It's been that way for a while and continues to get worse (I recall a zoning board member telling me that he hoped the development proponent would take them to court because the project was allowed "of right" & should have been approved - he hoped it would go to court because the judge was not subject to election as he was, and therefore the judge would be blamed instead of the zoning board).



"We're from the government, we're here to help you.
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Guess he failed Civics class thinking Judges aren't subject to elections...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Gary F said:
Migraine headaches can be incapacitating and rare cases can result in stroke like symptoms. The question is if they had sufficient reason to pursue this as a diagnosis.
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If she actually HAD migraines perhaps…


This was because two family members had migraines, as documented in a comprehensive history and physical. It was completely out of line.
 
Doggtyred said:
If she actually HAD migraines perhaps…


This was because two family members had migraines, as documented in a comprehensive history and physical. It was completely out of line.
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I was not referring to the person in question as I have not seen the medical records. I was responding to a post which implied that they were not incapacitating. Family history should rarely if ever be used as part of the FAA decision making process.
 
denverpilot said:
Guess he failed Civics class thinking Judges aren't subject to elections...
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Depends on the state & the appeals process. In the state in question, elections are every 15 years, and by that time the likelihood of the judge be "elected out" on the basis of one case decision is slim to none. OTOH, the zoning board serves 2-3 year terms.
 
Gary F said:
The well meaning physician did not need to send extraneous information. Too bad Dr. Bruce was not involved from the beginning.
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Yep....that was the fiasco. It was actually the partner of her regular doc that screwed up and sent everything instead of just what was requested. Her regular doc felt pretty bad about that screw up.

I'm curious how she might overcome the SI long term. I've got a good advocate AME she'll be going to next time.
 
Wait they can go after you for a family history of something even if you've never had it?

Forget about over-caution and bureaucratic foolishness, that's just plain unfair.
 
cowman said:
Wait they can go after you for a family history of something even if you've never had it?

Forget about over-caution and bureaucratic foolishness, that's just plain unfair.
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I suspect she had an ordinary tension headache but the word migraine was mentioned in the note as part of the family history and that led to the hysteria.
 
LDJones said:
Yep....that was the fiasco. It was actually the partner of her regular doc that screwed up and sent everything instead of just what was requested. Her regular doc felt pretty bad about that screw up.

I'm curious how she might overcome the SI long term. I've got a good advocate AME she'll be going to next time.
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Check here for the AME Guide for migraines and similar:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/app_process/exam_tech/item46/amd/ha/

If I understand the worksheet that page links to, the AASI Protocol, and the medical history you mentioned earlier, the AME should be able to issue her future medicals without having to submit anything to the FAA.
 
Loren, not sure if you're on the AOPA board or not, but this case is being discussed there (in an anonymous way).

According to Bruce's statements there, there is no chance that this SI is based on family history alone (in the minds of OKC anyway).

And as I recall, uncomplicated migraine headache is not even an AASI; it's now a CACI.
 
azure said:
Loren, not sure if you're on the AOPA board or not, but this case is being discussed there (in an anonymous way).

According to Bruce's statements there, there is no chance that this SI is based on family history alone (in the minds of OKC anyway).

And as I recall, uncomplicated migraine headache is not even an AASI; it's now a CACI.
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The terms of her SI require a 24-month "status report from your treating physician regarding your migraine headaches..." and a 12-month "status report from your treating physician regarding your ocular keratitis..."

My student maintains she's never had a migraine nor ever sought treatment for migraines. She remembers her mom and her brother being virtually bed-ridden for three days at a time with migraines, so she knows what the look like. She doesn't recall having headache lasting more than a few hours.

We're going to go through all of her medical records and look for any mention of migraines. But per OKC's request she had submitted a statement from her doctor that she did not suffer from migraines and had not been treated for them. Yet that's part of the SI.
 
LDJones said:
We're going to go through all of her medical records and look for any mention of migraines. But per OKC's request she had submitted a statement from her doctor that she did not suffer from migraines and had not been treated for them. Yet that's part of the SI.
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Whether it is, or isn't, is a Dr. Bruce question. It could be in the SI letter and still not be something they would have given her an SI for. Are SIs ever for more than 12 months? (not talking about letters allowing the AME to issue for multiple years, but actual SIs). It sounds like she only has to submit a report every 24 months, IOW at her regular physicals. Maybe the SI is actually for ocular keratitis.

It still seems odd that they concluded that she has migraine headaches. Kinda like my original SI for "mitral valve prolapse", despite the fact that the dx was suspect in the extreme and several cardiologists declared to me (unfortunately only to me, and not to the FAA) that it was bogus.

Anyway I retract my earlier comments about the 3rd class. Not that I don't think it should be gone, but it sounds like something else is going on here. Would your student be interested in talking to Bruce? I'm thinking that might be the best way to figure out what the FAA's logic really is.
 
I just got my medical renewed yesterday. I use a dedicated AME. That's all he does is flight physicals and related work. He said something that hit home, his whole office, his livelihood, his entire practice, is solely dependent on keeping pilots flying. Because of that he knows all the ways to keep us in the air. I would find someone like this even if it meant traveling.

I'm glad this one worked out.
 
Sounds like Alex found Gabriel! ;-)
 
azure said:
Anyway I retract my earlier comments about the 3rd class. Not that I don't think it should be gone, but it sounds like something else is going on here. Would your student be interested in talking to Bruce? I'm thinking that might be the best way to figure out what the FAA's logic really is.
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I think we've located a good AME resource locally that works with a lot of SI cases who said he'd be happy to get this straightened out next time around. For now, she's flying. And that's a good thing!
 
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