EMP and redundancy

Jaybird180

Jaybird180

Final Approach
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
9,038
Location
Near DC
Display Name
Jaybird180
Home Airfield
VKX
If an EMP (Electromagnetic Pulse) event occurred while you were in-flight, would you be able to complete the flight?
 
Jaybird180 said:
If an EMP (Electromagnetic Pulse) event occurred while you were in-flight, would you be able to complete the flight?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure my aircraft wouldn't get fried, though my digital tach would probably go tango uniform. I'm perfectly able to use the ol' mark I eyeballs.

I'm assuming the mags would be ok.
 
I assume no comm/nav. Will the compass work? Will there be ground lights if at night?
VFR shouldnt be a problem if daytime.

If I am ifr I will fly to previously determined vfr conditions using the compass and my wind-up watch, find an airport, (or if unable and fuel is low/darkness is setting in, another suitable place to land.) If nighttime, and I can't find an airport/field then its just like any remote-area, night, off-field landing.
If vfr not available, I will fly to last known vicinity of higher ceilings/vis & flatland by same means, descend blindly and do the same as above.
If the engine fails due to emp, well I still have the wings and any potential energy left to find a smooth, soft place.
If no engine, and the emp has also killed the T&B and I am above clouds, out of range of vmc, I guess I better hope there is a decent ceiling so I'll have enough time to recover from the intentional cloud-breaking spin! That would be a one in a centillion.
 
Reminds me of a discussion we had in the strike planning shop about 25 years ago. Discussion ended when JT said, "I'm a not near as worried about surviving a nuclear winter as I am about surviving the nuclear summer which precedes it."
 
I'd suspect the magnetos should still work. I'm guessing the other electronics wouldn't.

If I'm flying a FADEC aircraft, I'm going down. And two engines will only help me turn into a better brick. :)
 
TMetzinger said:
If it's daytime, and I get vfr, I'm ok, at least I'm walking away.
Click to expand...
If it's nighttime, you'll think it's daytime -- but not for long. Like the joke about Reagan being asked if Gorbachev would ever see the light. "Well, yes, I believe he will," Reagan says, "just before he hears the bang." Back to what JT said about "nuclear summer" -- whether the EMP kills your avionics or not won't matter for very long.

"We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when..."
 
Mags should be OK. All avionics gone. All navigation aids on the ground gone. All airport lights out.
 
Well EMP does not REQUIRE a nuclear explosion. I believe a HERF gun would have similar effects, or other device exist that can produce a localized pulse, where a nuc generates a much bigger one.
 
I've wondered too about this too.

I hypothesize that, in a few years, when everything is electronically stored, a nation's economy could be destroyed by a couple of high altitude nuclear EMP bombs without damaging anything on the ground and with minimal physical harm to people.

As for magnetos- remember that Starfish Prime (1962) burned out street lights. I'd have thought that those would be fairly robust back then.

I'm assuming nuclear EMP as you can pump an EMP chemically, but it's much weaker and would affect a very limited area.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
I've wondered too about this too.

I hypothesize that, in a few years, when everything is electronically stored, a nation's economy could be destroyed by a couple of high altitude nuclear EMP bombs without damaging anything on the ground and with minimal physical harm to people.
Click to expand...
This is a part of the plot of a very good book "Mother of Storms", by John Barnes.
 
So what if the sun went out? Would I have enough light to finish my VFR Day 250 mile XC if I was 200 miles into it with a 20 knot headwind in a 90 KIAS C150?
 
There are those in the DARPA type business that are developing directed energy weapons, so this is a "real" possibility.
 
dmccormack said:
So what if the sun went out? Would I have enough light to finish my VFR Day 250 mile XC if I was 200 miles into it with a 20 knot headwind in a 90 KIAS C150?
Click to expand...

Depends on the direction of the treadmill at the time.
 
Jaybird180 said:
There are those in the DARPA type business that are developing directed energy weapons, so this is a "real" possibility.
Click to expand...
Um... I've already heard discussions (non-classified) of this sort of technology being used at various computer security get-togethers. While I don't think you can bring down an airplane, there are definitely devices out there that will disable PC/Laptops within a small (10s of meters) area without hurting people. Google "herf gun".
 
Mags:
If EMP can affect power transformers, I am thinking there is the potential to fry the winding in a magneto. Guess I better wrap them with aluminum foil, if there is any left over from my hat!
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Mags:
If EMP can affect power transformers, I am thinking there is the potential to fry the winding in a magneto. Guess I better wrap them with aluminum foil, if there is any left over from my hat!
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that power transformers are in the power grid and will get hit alot harder then an isolated mag.

Read "One Second After" if you want more info on EMP and its effect on the population.
 
Jaybird180 said:
If an EMP (Electromagnetic Pulse) event occurred while you were in-flight, would you be able to complete the flight?
Click to expand...

Completing the flight will be easy compared to getting fuel in a couple days to refill your tanks.
 
Jaybird180 said:
If an EMP (Electromagnetic Pulse) event occurred while you were in-flight, would you be able to complete the flight?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure we'd survive the pulse it would take to ruin magnetos, that would take a lot of high energy.
 
Don't care. A wide spread EMP would mean a wide spread nuke attack. Not much point after that. As an example in a NBC discussion I was told if the Soviets valued Pearl Harbor as heavily as we did Vladivostok, there would be a weapon several hundreds of times more powerful than the WWII weapons going off 4000 ft over the harbor every 10 seconds for 5 minutes. Not pretty to think about.
 
Either the mags are OK and you finish your flight as planned, or they fail and you land on the smooth, glassy surface below. Then you die from radiation. Or more likely the shock ad heat wave vaporizes you and the plane.
 
DaleB said:
Either the mags are OK and you finish your flight as planned, or they fail and you land on the smooth, glassy surface below. Then you die from radiation. Or more likely the shock ad heat wave vaporizes you and the plane.
Click to expand...

And in all those scenarios, the flight will be complete.
 
Threefingeredjack said:
Don't care. A wide spread EMP would mean a wide spread nuke attack. Not much point after that. As an example in a NBC discussion I was told if the Soviets valued Pearl Harbor as heavily as we did Vladivostok, there would be a weapon several hundreds of times more powerful than the WWII weapons going off 4000 ft over the harbor every 10 seconds for 5 minutes. Not pretty to think about.
Click to expand...
There's Quasars and Supernovas....
 
Henning said:
There's Quasars
Click to expand...
Not likely to happen here, at least for the next few billion years accornding to current theory.

Henning said:
and Supernovas....
Click to expand...
Perhaps a little more likely but we have nothing close enough right now to do this.

Science from the person that posted this little gem:
Henning said:
Correct, Ground Track = Gravity Well/Field of Earth which is where inertia lies. Inertia adds the 'ground track' component to the equation when you add an acceleration component off the wind. You can't leave gravity out of any energy equation.
Click to expand...

I'm sure that Newton, Einstein, Feynman, and a host of others are scratching their heads over this one.
 
Last edited:
DaleB said:
Well... over, anyway. I wold hesitate to call a midair vaporization "complete". :)
Click to expand...

Yeah - I guess the definition of "complete the flight" should include the requirement that the pilot be able to log it personally.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
I'm sure that Newton, Einstein, Feynman, and a host of others are scratching their heads over this one.
Click to expand...

Not in the slightest, Einstein is the one that predicted the gravity well in space-time drags with Earth's (or any bodies) gravity as well which is why pilots flying to the east fly through time more slowly than those flying west. It's all related to the drag of gravity. Newton would have understood the first time I said it.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top