Emergency Spin Recovery Technique

[Diana]

I thought it might be beneficial to start a new thread in response to Bill's question about the Muller/Beggs (or Beggs/Muller) technique.

So, are you doing it hands off on the stick, or are you also playing with outspin or inspin aileron?

Bill, I don't know what you found on Google, but here is a basic summary of this procedure for recovering from accidental spins if the pilot can't figure out what to do to recover. It does not work for every airplane or every situation. This is the subject of some debate. Here is as good a place as any for some of that debate.

1. Reduce power to idle
2. Let go of the stick/yoke (hands free)
3. Full rudder opposite the direction of rotation
4. Neutralize rudder when rotation stops
5. Recover from the dive

There are a lot of great books out there about spins. If you want we can list some for you. A great video to watch is the John/Matt Morrissey video "Survive the Spin". The emergency spin recovery technique is discussed at length, as well as the basic dynamics of spins. Also covered is what happens when the incorrect input is used with different flight controls.

 

[BruceAir]

I have many links to information about Stalls/Spins on my Web site at:

http://www.bruceair.com/spins.htm (scroll to the bottom).

For excellent information about spins, etc., see the free online articles and videos on the Fighter Combat International Web site at:

http://www.fcitraining.com/newsletterlist.htm

A good, concise, summary of recovery techniques is at:

http://www.fcitraining.com/article15_fci_training_jul04_2.htm

One of the best sources of information is Rich Stowell:

http://www.richstowell.com/index.htm

And if you're an AOPA member, you'll find a page with links to many articles about spins at: http://www.aopa.org/members/files/topics/stalls.html.

 

[Diana]

Power off
Ailerons neutral
Rudder opposite
Elevator to recover from dive

“Ailerons” – Neutral (and Flaps Up) – {when in doubt, Control Stick – “Release”}

I like this further clarification on aileron input in recovery. Sometimes people can get into more trouble trying to get the aileron to what they think might be neutral if they are already stressed and/or disoriented in a spin.

I'm such a newbie, I sometimes don't sense that I am giving slight incorrect aileron input going vertical or inverted until I get my visual references set.

 

[Skyport]

I'm a bit confused by the current fascination with Mueller-Beggs, this is from the May 1996 Sport Aviation Table of Contents....."Emergency Training - The Mueller-Beggs Emergency Spin Recovery Procedure . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . by Gene Beggs".

This is an EMERGENCY spin recovery technique designed to be used when you are confused, it is not designed to be a routine spin recovery procedure, or to supplant the POH procedure for a given aircraft. In fact Gene Beggs has verified that it will not work in a T-34C, Cessna 150/152 Aerobat or Commuter, T-6/SNJ, or the Decathlon, I understand there are problems with it in the Zlins, DH Chipmunk, and Yak's also. The Decathlon POH clearly states that positive forward stick is required for recovery, Mueller-Beggs may work under certain loadings but will not work under all conditions.

Read your POH, use the procedure recommended, the one that a Test Pilot verified works, otherwise you have become a Test Pilot.

Incidentially when the Aeronca Champ was certified CAR 4 required recovery from a six turn spin HANDS OFF in one and a half turns, this requirement applies to every aircraft certified under that TC...........the entire Citabria series.

The Decathlon was certified under a new TC to avoid meeting the stringent CAR 4 spin requirement.

Tom-

 

[Diana]

I'm a bit confused by the current fascination with Mueller-Beggs

Well, Tom it's not a bad idea for a pilot to be familiar with the procedure (or the PARE method). There must be some reason this is discussed in so many spin training clinics, books, and videos.

This is an EMERGENCY spin recovery technique designed to be used when you are confused

That's why I used the word "Emergency" in the title of this thread.

 

[Bill]

Bill, I don't know what you found on Google, but here is a basic summary of this procedure for recovering from accidental spins if the pilot can't figure out what to do to recover.

Some of the stuff I saw (quick read) noted that some airplanes respond well (or not) to aileron in the spin. funny thing is, on some planes, aileron against the spin worked to quicken recovery, while aileron into the spin worked well on others. Interesting territory, but not for me

 

[bbchien]

I think spin recovery needs to be reinstated as a requirement for PVT ASEL. It would certainly prompt any manufacturer who is contemplating the training market, to spin certify. These A/C are gettting rarer and rarer.

PARE will tighten a spin in the ZLIN. It is individual for each aircraft. And, lastly, what cannot be taught is how easy it is to get disoriented and put in the opposite to correct rudder inputs.

CFI with a good bit of basic ACRO.

 

[poadeleted3]

I think spin recovery needs to be reinstated as a requirement for PVT ASEL. It would certainly prompt any manufacturer who is contemplating the training market, to spin certify. These A/C are gettting rarer and rarer.

PARE will tighten a spin in the ZLIN. It is individual for each aircraft. And, lastly, what cannot be taught is how easy it is to get disoriented and put in the opposite to correct rudder inputs.

CFI with a good bit of basic ACRO.

I asked for some spin training while I was doing nothing but flying around every other week waiting for my medical. I was told they don't like to do them because they are hard on the gyros.

Sigh... I wish I could have finished my private with Ben Mallory. Somehow, I don't think he would have had me puttering in circles while we waited. Lots and lots of teaching could have been done. In fairness, though, I was very well prepared for a checkride when the time came.

 

[Skyport]

Diana-

While I did note the use of Emergency my comment is aimed at the strong interest in Mueller-Beggs, seemingly to the exclusion of learning the recommended procedure for a given aircraft, seemingly ignoring the standard spin recovery procedure. Muller-Beggs makes you a passenger during the recovery, unless one is confused about which direction, etc. they are spinning I would prefer using standard recovery techniques and continuing to be the pilot. We like new things, we like buzzwords, Mueller-Beggs is really nothing more than the old CAR 4 hands-off spin recovery repackaged with a catchy name. And a good point can be made that many who are advocating Mueller-Beggs haven't read the details of the procedure but are teaching the procedure without the nuances.

And PARE is the traditional spin recovery given a new name with two points added that at one time were givens. Specifically P-Power off, and A-Ailerons neutral. If you go back to the pre-WWII CAA manuals you will see that the recommended spin recovery was to stop the rotation with the rudder then break the stall with the elevator, and it was taught that the power would be at idle and the ailerons neutral.

Tom-

 

[Diana]

While I did note the use of Emergency my comment is aimed at the strong interest in Mueller-Beggs, seemingly to the exclusion of learning the recommended procedure for a given aircraft, seemingly ignoring the standard spin recovery procedure.

Well, Tom I don't believe that anyone here was suggesting that.

 

[Toby]

And, lastly, what cannot be taught is how easy it is to get disoriented and put in the opposite to correct rudder inputs.

Some advice I was given about rudder was to look for the hard rudder. If I guess wrong and it depresses too easily, that's the wrong pedal.

 

[Bill]

And, lastly, what cannot be taught is how easy it is to get disoriented and put in the opposite to correct rudder inputs.

That is true, it is quite easy when you know you booted left rudder to go into the spin that you need right rudder to recover.

Some advice I was given about rudder was to look for the hard rudder. If I guess wrong and it depresses too easily, that's the wrong pedal.

I'm going to ask my instructor to let me try this, better yet, I'd like to have him put the plane into a spin while I look down in my lap, and then look up and recover. THAT will be much better at experiencing recovery after an inadvertant spin. (if I don't barf )

 

[Bill]

I asked for some spin training while I was doing nothing but flying around every other week waiting for my medical. I was told they don't like to do them because they are hard on the gyros.

Joe, snoop around, there HAS to be someone in your area that gives soft acro / upset training. Better yet if its in a taildragger (fun fun fun).

 

[Skyport]

Diana-

This thread begins with a question from Bill J. about what type of recoveries you were using in your EXCELLENT video. By asking if you were doing the recoveries hands-off the stick I can only assume that somewhere, someone, gave him the idea that Muller-Beggs was a normal recovery. Then he proceeds to ask about in spin/out spin aileron, this is a bit of an advanced concept for someone getting their first exposure to aero, to spins, no doubt of great value later on as advanced spins are taught however.

When we get into spin discussions it seems that we frequently leap to all sorts of advanced spins before we've even learned normal, upright spins. Unless flying a dedicated aero mount, in training for competition, few pilots will ever progress from the normal upright spin to the more advanced spins. Our current focus on advanced spins, and recovery from the occasional total disorientation that results from advanced spins, is a result of high perf competition aero. In WWII the only spin taught was the normal, primary, upright spin, that's the only real spin required for the Barnstormer Aerobatics most will practice.

In reality inadvertent spins are rare in normal flying, and rather rare in most aero flying also, and most of the more common aircraft recover very easily. As for the value of spin training for all pilot's there is little chance that anyone short of the most experienced aero pilot would be able to recover from the most common inadvertent spin...........the base-to-final spin at low-altitude, AND unexpected.

For most pilot's stall recognition and avoidance is of primary import.

I always begin my spin training with a lesson on the THREE conditions that MUST be met prior to any aircraft entering a spin. This puts the lesson in perspective and allows the student to understand that spins are not going to surprise him if he avoids meeting those requirements for spin entry.

Tom-

 

[Diana]

Diana-
This thread begins with a question from Bill J. about what type of recoveries you were using in your EXCELLENT video. By asking if you were doing the recoveries hands-off the stick I can only assume that somewhere, someone, gave him the idea that Muller-Beggs was a normal recovery.

Actually this particular thread was started because the discussion shifted to Muller Beggs and not my video. I was responding to Bill's question about Muller Beggs recovery as he stated the question, as I understood his question:

"Never heard of that (Muller Beggs), what is it? (time to run off to google)
OK, google-fu to the rescue!
So, are you doing it (Muller Beggs) hands off on the stick, or are you also playing with outspin or inspin aileron?"
__________________



I'm glad you liked my amateur video.

 

[Skyport]

Diana-

Quite right, I understand that is my point exactly. Muller-Beggs is in vogue but it is not the primary technique for spin recovery, that remains PARE..................STOP the rotation with rudder, BREAK the stall with elevator, after pulling power and neutralizing ailerons. My point remains that we should teach spin recoveries using the recommended procedure for a given aircraft as the primary spin recovery procedure. My concern is that Mueller-Beggs has received so much publicity that novices may assume it is the primary spin recovery technique.

Someone has mentioned that Rich Stowell, aka Mr. Spin, teaches PARE, the same was true for Bill Kershner and generations of CFI's long before anyone had ever heard of Muler-Beggs. We seem to have a tendency to leap into complex solutions for simple problems, to want to learn something new before we master the primary. How many of today's budding aero pilots are learning complex/compound aero maneuvers but couldn't perform all of the maneuvers in the WWII Primary Manual? Flight training should be accomplished using a building block approach.
Tom-

 

[Bill]

Muller-Beggs is in vogue but it is not the primary technique for spin recovery, that remains PARE..................STOP the rotation with rudder, BREAK the stall with elevator, after pulling power and neutralizing ailerons. My point remains that we should teach spin recoveries using the recommended procedure for a given aircraft as the primary spin recovery procedure. My concern is that Mueller-Beggs has received so much publicity that novices may assume it is the primary spin recovery technique.

As Diana said, she asked me if I had tried the M-B recovery, and that led to the discussion.

Personally, I'm following the PARE method (never heard it called that, but OK), as that is what my acro instructor is teaching me. I STILL want to have him spin the airplane while I have my head down, so I can determine the direction and recovery.

 

[Skyport]

Bill-

I had never heard it called PARE either, but it is the old standby and PARE gives you an easy way to remember all the elements in sequence. That said it is always good to read the manual for any given aircraft and follow the recommended procedure to avoid becoming a test pilot.

Tom-