"Emergency off airport landings"

John Baker

John Baker

Final Approach
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John Baker
I've never made one, hope I never have to. I did hear one over my radio when I was out over the desert with my instructor a few years back.

The pilot was conversing with the tower at KSEE (Gillespie Field.) He was talking in this rather high pitched voice. The tower told him he had the exclusive on the runway if he thought he could make it. The high pitched voice was now more than a few decibels higher as he explained to the tower he could not make the field and was going to use a roadway in front of a shopping center.

I hate to say it, but I was a very low time student at the time, and probably was not appreciating the full gravity of what I was listening to, but I actually found this ever increasing in decibels voice, comical at the time.

Even my instructor, who was trying to give me a stern look, could not suppress a smile.

Anyway, the fellow made a successful landing with no injury or damage.

When I got home that evening, I turned on the evening fluff, more for company than content, and the incident was on the T.V.

The pilot was standing beside his Cessna in the parking lot of the shopping center, telling the newscaster about his adventure. This guy sounded like a ten thousand hour ATP, totally calm, cool, and collected, kinda like John Wayne, so much so that the lady newscaster commented on his calmness. A total 180 from the voice on the airwaves.

Anyway, I'm just wondering if any of you guys have had to actually make an emergency off airport landing.

John
 
Just one. I was flying along minding my business when the rubber band broke. I only had two choices, one was a mountain with no trees, just huge rocks, and the other was a park full of people. I could see a couple of weddings and other events, including some soccer games and the graduation ceremony for the medical school.

John Baker said:
I've never made one, hope I never have to. I did hear one over my radio when I was out over the desert with my instructor a few years back.

The pilot was conversing with the tower at KSEE (Gillespie Field.) He was talking in this rather high pitched voice. The tower told him he had the exclusive on the runway if he thought he could make it. The high pitched voice was now more than a few decibels higher as he explained to the tower he could not make the field and was going to use a roadway in front of a shopping center.

I hate to say it, but I was a very low time student at the time, and probably was not appreciating the full gravity of what I was listening to, but I actually found this ever increasing in decibels voice, comical at the time.

Even my instructor, who was trying to give me a stern look, could not suppress a smile.

Anyway, the fellow made a successful landing with no injury or damage.

When I got home that evening, I turned on the evening fluff, more for company than content, and the incident was on the T.V.

The pilot was standing beside his Cessna in the parking lot of the shopping center, telling the newscaster about his adventure. This guy sounded like a ten thousand hour ATP, totally calm, cool, and collected, kinda like John Wayne, so much so that the lady newscaster commented on his calmness. A total 180 from the voice on the airwaves.

Anyway, I'm just wondering if any of you guys have had to actually make an emergency off airport landing.

John
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wabower said:
Just one. I was flying along minding my business when the rubber band broke. I only had two choices, one was a mountain with no trees, just huge rocks, and the other was a park full of people. I could see a couple of weddings and other events, including some soccer games and the graduation ceremony for the medical school.
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Someday, I hope I to will have 445 posts. In the meantime, I'm just learning to get my feet wet, you know, get a feel of the forum, the folks on it, that kind of stuff.

Please forgive me if I stumble or come out with some really stupid and inane threads or comments on others. I think in time, after y'all get to know me a little better, that I truly represent what y'all are thinking. :crazy:

John
 
John Baker said:
Anyway, I'm just wondering if any of you guys have had to actually make an emergency off airport landing.

John
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I've had landings that caused concern, and I've had off airport landings. But not an emergency off airport landing.

The landings that cause concern.
1) no 3 green, are the gear really down and locked or is it just the light.
Can't test the light, can't swap the bulb. Tower thinks it's down. Land gingerly and all is well.

2) 1 mile, final, 3 green blink and then a total electrical failure. Are the gear really down. I felt all three clunk into place, saw the light flicker and then electrics went black. No way to talk to tower.. just land.

3) Gear switch down, distracted in the pattern, power back, there is the gear horn, check the gear.. no green. Check the lever, yes it is down. Go aroung can call ground observers for a look see. One main partially extended, others are in the wells. Fly away from the pattern, cycle the gear, no changes in the lights. Review the emergency extend check list, execute the checklist and come back to the pattern for a low slow fly by. Ground observers agree that the gear "appears" to be in place.. land gingerly.. all is well.

My off airport landings, while not an emergency, were places that were reviewed during flight planning and planned. This is flying gliders cross country. Know where your safe alternate landing areas are. Know how to land "off airport", and know when you use them.

BT
 
John Baker said:
Anyway, I'm just wondering if any of you guys have had to actually make an emergency off airport landing.

John
Click to expand...

I've made several but all were at SimCom.:D My mother had two although the second one probably doesn't really count as she was able to nurse the Skyhawk to a nearby airport on two cylinders. In the first one she ended up unhurt with the plane (taildragger) it's nose.
 
John Baker said:
Someday, I hope I to will have 445 posts. In the meantime, I'm just learning to get my feet wet, you know, get a feel of the forum, the folks on it, that kind of stuff.

Please forgive me if I stumble or come out with some really stupid and inane threads or comments on others. I think in time, after y'all get to know me a little better, that I truly represent what y'all are thinking. :crazy:

John
Click to expand...
Look at my post count. Ya think it's not filled with a good number of really weird and dumb stuff? :)

But, a well-respected member on the board told me he has enjoyed several of my posts as being informative and well worth reading. We all will have a spread across the spectrum with various posts.

As to your original post and the simulated scenario in another thread, I know from many I've read in NTSB reports as well as other accounts in the aviation periodicals... I don't have a clue how I'd react.

As a CFI, I pull power on students all the time. I tell them the wing is on fire or other simulated emergency. Some perform well and some are still catching on. One might reasonably think since I teach it all the time, I might react very calmly and comfortably deal with the issue.

Were it an engine loss such as the farm land out east of us, I'd expect a reasoned and relatively calm response. Were it the area I did so on a student Friday night, I may be a little more concerned since there were few options for a landing area. Were it higher mountains to the west, I'm less certain.

I had heard stories of some instructors dealing with students who froze up after entering a spin. More than one student has had to be cold-cocked so they would release the controls. I've had fears of encountering such a student. That hasn't happen but I have had a student freeze up in a nose-down unusual attitude. He added full power and pushed over further. Within a few seconds we were at 170+ MPH in a Skyhawk with a Vne of 183. Thinking back on it later, I was surprised I reacted so calmly to take the controls and make an uneventful recovery without over-stressing the aircraft.

As it was said in the other thread, we never know how we'll react until we're faced with a situation. I'd like to think I'll be just as calm as before. But, every situation looks at you differently and your reaction is not guaranteed to be the same.
 
never an emergency off airport landing in the sense you are asking. ive been generally emergency free as long as I have an engine. I think I have something like 15 off airport landings in gliders. a couple of those have been a little dicey, usually when trying to clear a stand of trees and also land short, but overall they've usually been no big deal.
 
I refer to Tony's off airport landings as "installations" as in, an artistic sculpture installation.
 

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I've had 3 off field landings. I started out my flying career in 2-stroke ultra lights. It's not a question of if the motor will quit, it's when. The good news is in Nebraska the whole state is a runway excluding a few cows, fences, and center pivots. :ihih: UL's only need 1-300' to land and take off so finding a landing spot is easy.

The first one I was at 1,000' AGL and the big fan quit. I picked out a bean field and made an uneventfully landing, although the local farmer was quite excited.:dunno:

The other two, I am embarrassed to say, were lessons on useful full loads. :fcross: I thought I had enough fuel to make the airport....twice.....in the same day. Okay, not one of my prouder aviation decision.:no: Both were uneventfully pasture landings, added fuel, and took off. The horses in the pasture were really curious!

After those incidents I decided I needed to "clean up my act" and I got my PPL and started flying 4-stroke engines.
While I hope I never had to make another off field landing the "training" I have will serve me well. IMHO go for the biggest most open field / area you can find.
 
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Geico266 said:
UL's only need 1-300' to land and take off so finding a landing spot is easy.
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Boy that really must be some terrific short field technique to land and take off in one foot. You should enter a contest.:D
 
Only one emergency, off-airport landing. Initiated from an engine failure on a go-around at 50 feet and Vx. YEEE-HA!!!:yikes:

I can tell you exactly what went through my mind, too...
1. OH S&%#!!!
2. This CAN'T be happening to me!
3. Shoulder harness is latched.
4. If I keep pumping the throttle, and this engine catches just briefly again, I'm going to be in the trees instead of this field.

All that from 50 feet to the ground. The guys watching said that it was "textbook", though...engine quit, nose down sharply, flare, land. Everything except items 1-4 above happened without any conscious input on my part.

KennyFlys said:
One might reasonably think since I teach it all the time, I might react very calmly and comfortably deal with the issue.
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This is really the key...whether you teach it or not, the biggest factors in how you handle ANY emergency are training and repetition. Either in the airplane, in a simulator, or "chair flying", it all helps. Doesn't guarantee the outcome, but it improves the odds substantially.

Fly safe!

David
 
well i ran my car out of gas today as i was leaving the airport. my fuel gauge is a little whacky when it starts to get low, and it had been a week or so of running on E. but being a responsible glider pilot i knew exactly where the nearest gas station was, shot a quick U turn (difficult w/o power steering) and nursed it back. engine died completely just as I was turning off Airport Road into the station. I actually had to tap the brakes to get it to stop at the pump! I bet I had enough energy to coast at least another 50 feet!
 
I watched one, does that count?

August 20, 1974

The plan had been to fly from Burwash Landing, Yukon to Northway, AK but when we got close to the border, we found low hills and a lower ceiling so we stopped at a strip near Beaver Creek. Not much there – a grass runway, windsock, the remains of a hanger (just posts and beams – no walls or roof) and an old gas pump. We set up the tent and settled down to wait. After a while we heard and airplane fly over – but it wasn't long before we heard it coming back. Turned out to be Jack, a school teacher from Anchorage with his son (9 or 10 years old) in a Tripacer. They had a free standing dome tent and had lost a pole at their previous stop, making it impossible to set the tent up. It was raining so the four of us cooked and ate dinner in our two man pup tent, and then Jack spent an uncomfortable night attempting to sleep in the Tripacer while his son bunked with us.


August 21

The morning had a low overcast but no rain. We walked out to the Highway and flagged down a pickup coming from Alaska. They reported that the weather up-road looked pretty much the same, so, with our weather brief in hand, we prepared to try scud running into Northway.


Beaver Creek Yukon to Northway AK – The Tripacer took off first, and we followed. We tried to air file a flight plan, but we couldn't make contact, so we just continued on. It wasn't too bad - we made it over the hills at a few hundred AGL. We had been flying over the Al-Can highway for safety, but Jack was a native and he suggested we go straight line over the last 20 miles to Northway to save time. We followed in loose formation. About 5 miles out, Jack called in to Northway, then, before we could call, he got on the radio and announced that his engine had failed. We then called in to report that we were right behind him and would follow him down. Well, he turned to what was about the only clearing for a long ways, set up a perfect approach, touch down, rolled about 2 Tripacer lengths and nosed over onto his back. We circled and reported that he was over on his back and no one was getting out. Then, the door opened and the pilot and his son got out. After a couple of low passes to see that they looked OK, we remembered that he might have an ELT that he could connect to a microphone. My brother made a real low pass while I hung out the window waving a mike and our ELT – he got the idea and we soon had the report that they were OK but couldn't get off the wing because the mud was waist deep. Jack asked us to wag the wings if the “Jolly Green Giant” was on the way to pick them up. Well, Northway had told us that they had called for a rescue but it could be several hours - we wagged our wings as the best answer we could give. We circled for a while then broke off for Northway to re-fuel and get customs out of the way.


When we met with customs, we got yelled at for not filing a flight plan, but we didn't pay much attention to the guy. Two guys with an ATV had set out toward the wreck, intending to rely on us to zero them in on the location. So, once we gassed up, we went back out to continue to mark the location of the Tripacer. At some point an amphibian came buy to see if there was a big enough lake to land in, but no – nothing nearby was big enough. The ATV had been making good progress for a while, but then they threw a track and had to make repairs. Northway had us ask them if they required assistance too. They laughed and said no. Then, about three hours after the crash, we look down, and saw that, out of nowhere, a helicopter had come in and landed next to the Tripacer. We watched Jack and his son slog through the mud to get to it then we returned to Northway. The helicopter arrived soon after us. The helicopter had heard us talking to the ATV, but his transmitter was INOP. The helicopter spotted us, found the Tripacer below, and dropped in.


The customs guy was still not happy that neither of us had filed a flight plan and interviewed us some more then told us we would be hearing from Washington DC (we never did). Next he sat down at a table with Jack for questioning. At one point, the guy asked if Jack intended to land 5 miles out of Northway. Jack got in his face, told him he had CRASHED five miles short, wrecking his airplane – with his son aboard. Two of the locals had been watching; they fit the stereotype of big burly guys in red flannel shirts and beards. These two placed chairs close on either side of the customs man, and sat down close, eyeing him from both sides. The customs nerd looked left and right, closed up his notebook, announced that he would get back to Jack with any further questions and beat a hasty retreat to his office. We heard the door lock. We asked Jack if there was anything we could do to help – like take them to Anchorage one at a time in the 120, but he declined.

There was no danger to anyone on the ground.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
I watched one, does that count?

August 20, 1974

The plan had been to fly from Burwash Landing, Yukon to Northway, AK but when we got close to the border, we found low hills and a lower ceiling so we stopped at a strip near Beaver Creek. Not much there – a grass runway, windsock, the remains of a hanger (just posts and beams – no walls or roof) and an old gas pump. We set up the tent and settled down to wait. After a while we heard and airplane fly over – but it wasn't long before we heard it coming back. Turned out to be Jack, a school teacher from Anchorage with his son (9 or 10 years old) in a Tripacer. They had a free standing dome tent and had lost a pole at their previous stop, making it impossible to set the tent up. It was raining so the four of us cooked and ate dinner in our two man pup tent, and then Jack spent an uncomfortable night attempting to sleep in the Tripacer while his son bunked with us.


August 21

The morning had a low overcast but no rain. We walked out to the Highway and flagged down a pickup coming from Alaska. They reported that the weather up-road looked pretty much the same, so, with our weather brief in hand, we prepared to try scud running into Northway.


Beaver Creek Yukon to Northway AK – The Tripacer took off first, and we followed. We tried to air file a flight plan, but we couldn't make contact, so we just continued on. It wasn't too bad - we made it over the hills at a few hundred AGL. We had been flying over the Al-Can highway for safety, but Jack was a native and he suggested we go straight line over the last 20 miles to Northway to save time. We followed in loose formation. About 5 miles out, Jack called in to Northway, then, before we could call, he got on the radio and announced that his engine had failed. We then called in to report that we were right behind him and would follow him down. Well, he turned to what was about the only clearing for a long ways, set up a perfect approach, touch down, rolled about 2 Tripacer lengths and nosed over onto his back. We circled and reported that he was over on his back and no one was getting out. Then, the door opened and the pilot and his son got out. After a couple of low passes to see that they looked OK, we remembered that he might have an ELT that he could connect to a microphone. My brother made a real low pass while I hung out the window waving a mike and our ELT – he got the idea and we soon had the report that they were OK but couldn't get off the wing because the mud was waist deep. Jack asked us to wag the wings if the “Jolly Green Giant” was on the way to pick them up. Well, Northway had told us that they had called for a rescue but it could be several hours - we wagged our wings as the best answer we could give. We circled for a while then broke off for Northway to re-fuel and get customs out of the way.


When we met with customs, we got yelled at for not filing a flight plan, but we didn't pay much attention to the guy. Two guys with an ATV had set out toward the wreck, intending to rely on us to zero them in on the location. So, once we gassed up, we went back out to continue to mark the location of the Tripacer. At some point an amphibian came buy to see if there was a big enough lake to land in, but no – nothing nearby was big enough. The ATV had been making good progress for a while, but then they threw a track and had to make repairs. Northway had us ask them if they required assistance too. They laughed and said no. Then, about three hours after the crash, we look down, and saw that, out of nowhere, a helicopter had come in and landed next to the Tripacer. We watched Jack and his son slog through the mud to get to it then we returned to Northway. The helicopter arrived soon after us. The helicopter had heard us talking to the ATV, but his transmitter was INOP. The helicopter spotted us, found the Tripacer below, and dropped in.


The customs guy was still not happy that neither of us had filed a flight plan and interviewed us some more then told us we would be hearing from Washington DC (we never did). Next he sat down at a table with Jack for questioning. At one point, the guy asked if Jack intended to land 5 miles out of Northway. Jack got in his face, told him he had CRASHED five miles short, wrecking his airplane – with his son aboard. Two of the locals had been watching; they fit the stereotype of big burly guys in red flannel shirts and beards. These two placed chairs close on either side of the customs man, and sat down close, eyeing him from both sides. The customs nerd looked left and right, closed up his notebook, announced that he would get back to Jack with any further questions and beat a hasty retreat to his office. We heard the door lock. We asked Jack if there was anything we could do to help – like take them to Anchorage one at a time in the 120, but he declined.

There was no danger to anyone on the ground.
Click to expand...
I know I've read that story before in some book, but I can't think of the title right now. Help me out?
 
Headwinds
 
I had the throttle jam at near idle in a Beech Sierra a few years ago. There wasn't enough thrust to maintain altitude but I was quite high and within range of the airport. I was able to 'glide' back for a landing on the runway.

The most nerve racking part was the math. I was looking at the estimated time on the GPS, my remaining altitude, and my vertical speed. I ran the math and realized I could make it, which was a good thing, considering the airplane didn't have a shoulder harness.
 
tonycondon said:
well i ran my car out of gas today as i was leaving the airport. my fuel gauge is a little whacky when it starts to get low, and it had been a week or so of running on E. but being a responsible glider pilot i knew exactly where the nearest gas station was, shot a quick U turn (difficult w/o power steering) and nursed it back. engine died completely just as I was turning off Airport Road into the station. I actually had to tap the brakes to get it to stop at the pump! I bet I had enough energy to coast at least another 50 feet!
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Now Tony is the Bob Hoover of automobiles.

I've run the Mustang dry about 6 times. It would be nice if you could get 5 more miles after the first sputter.
 
I ran out of gas once on the Texas-New Mexico border at 6am. There's a few things I've learned from that experience:

- If you run out of gas at 6am, people won't help you because they're half asleep
- Don't assume that your cell phone will work because it probably won't have reception
- You will run out of gas with a gas station _just_ within walking distance. In my case, it was about 20 miles away....
 
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2127213&l=00ca4&id=16900490

n16900490_33895072_570.jpg


No, that's not me, I was in a Seminole over head when they took off. 3.5 hrs later I had just gotten to my apartment about a half block from here when my roommate called me from the airport and told me to run to the intersection. From where I'm standing I could see my apartment's roof behind me and the PAPIs for VGT's 12L just off to my right (see photo 5 of 5, the airport is pretty obvious).

The official word around the airport is that they suffered an "unknown power plant failure;" rumor was it had something to do with "unknown amount of gas in the tank" when they took off. No injuries, only damage was the left wing tip that lost its fight with a street sign in the center of the road. Despite the police escort, the tug driver obeyed all traffic laws - including the red light - on his way around the perimeter fence to the front of the airport.

On a side note, if you're ever at VGT (North Las Vegas) the restaurant in the background (Magoo's) is excellent.

Personally, I've only landed engine out once, but again it was in a Seminole, so I just used the other one to make it to the airport :).
 
tonycondon said:
well i ran my car out of gas today as i was leaving the airport. my fuel gauge is a little whacky when it starts to get low, and it had been a week or so of running on E. but being a responsible glider pilot i knew exactly where the nearest gas station was, shot a quick U turn (difficult w/o power steering) and nursed it back. engine died completely just as I was turning off Airport Road into the station. I actually had to tap the brakes to get it to stop at the pump! I bet I had enough energy to coast at least another 50 feet!
Click to expand...

Just like Hoover!
 
lancefisher said:
Boy that really must be some terrific short field technique to land and take off in one foot. You should enter a contest.:D
Click to expand...

There was a real good headwind? :D

Actually, now that you bring it up I have landed with less than a 10 foot roll. Another trick is to fly backwards, that is to pull the nose up near stall in a high winds aloft day and you really can fly backwards. I've done it several times. UL's are really fun to fly....until the motor quits. :yikes:
 
It was about two years or so ago, I think it was in the early afternoon. I'm not sure it would make much difference if it was the day before yesterday. I guess from the first call to the tower until he touched down was about five or six minutes. It was on the evening news that night with about a minute or so spot between commercial breaks.

I think it was something that would be very easy to miss. Do you remember the two private GA aircraft that crashed into each other over a park in Fletcher Hills? I think that was about three years ago. One was coming out of Montgomery and the other was a training flight out of Gillespie. One doctor , one flight instructor, and one student, all killed on a nice clear day. Everyone had their heads in the cockpit.

John
 
John Baker said:
I think it was something that would be very easy to miss. Do you remember the two private GA aircraft that crashed into each other over a park in Fletcher Hills? I think that was about three years ago. One was coming out of Montgomery and the other was a training flight out of Gillespie. One doctor , one flight instructor, and one student, all killed on a nice clear day. Everyone had their heads in the cockpit.
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Yes I remember. They were both with ATC which make things scaried. I think after that they split this sector on two frequencies to take some loads off SoCal.

Also there was earlier was collision at my airport CRQ . I think it was some twin and Cessna 172 right at the corner of downwind and crosswind. 172 was climbing and twin descending, both airplanes were with the tower. Pretty sad ..
 
Thank you Troy.
My favorite is:

"Dragging wings on the ground at high speed is something a pilot endeavors to avoid. It's kind of like poking yourself in the eye; one instinctively avoids doing it even without direct experience of its effect. It's easy to believe that it might have uncomfortable consequences."
 
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