EFBs (again)

Dave Siciliano

Dave Siciliano

Final Approach
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Dave Siciliano
Sorry, I couldn't find the old thread. Thinking of subscribing to an electronic chart solution again. I had Chart Case before with all VFR, IFR (high and low enroute), terminal and approaches before. They have a tablet PC with all this on it called Chartbook. Looks like $1,795 all inclusive; then annual subscription of about $350 to keep updated using FAA charts.
http://www.flightprep.com/rootpage.php?page=HomeEFB

Jepp View seems to be much more expensive but they don't cite cost on the web page anywhere I can find. IIRC the annual subscription alone for national charts was over $1,000.

Can anyone tell me about these systems. I can put the Chartcase electronic charts on my Dell laptop, but it's too big to manage in the cockpit and the screen bleached out in bright sunlight.

Anyway, I'd appreciate the collective's thoughts!

Best,

Dave
 
Dave, I am still pretty interested in the Flight Cheetah, and finally hoodwinked EdFred into buying one as teh official PoA Guinea Pig.

They appear to have the best pricing for full chart options, and the software appears to be pretty versatile.

http://www.aviationsafety.com/

Differing models at differing price points.
 
SCCutler said:
Dave, I am still pretty interested in the Flight Cheetah, and finally hoodwinked EdFred into buying one as teh official PoA Guinea Pig.

They appear to have the best pricing for full chart options, and the software appears to be pretty versatile.

http://www.aviationsafety.com/

Differing models at differing price points.
Click to expand...

I don't see high altitude enroute charts. Or where it's a certified EFB which the Chart Case is.

Best,

Dave
 
Dave Siciliano said:
I don't see high altitude enroute charts. Or where it's a certified EFB which the Chart Case is.

Best,

Dave
Click to expand...

Flight Cheetah does have the High Enroutes included in the annual chart subscription (at least, their user manual says so).

What is the "certification" of the Chartcase? As far as I am aware, the only "certification" of EFB devices for Part 91 operations is done by the PIC.

I have to be honest here. After reading a good portion of both AC 120-76A, and AC 91-78, I am only more confused. I do think it is possible for the software to receive "Class A" or "Class B" certification, and this may be the deal for ChartCase.

But, if Everson & Stenbock have done so, they are pretty low-key about it; their product data states that Golden Eagle and ChartCase "...comply as a Type A application..." but also note that they "Require Flight Standards District Office (FSDO)/PI approval for OpSpecs holders (i.e. Part 135, Part 121)." So, it looks to me like, while certification may be obtainable for any given operator for whom such approval is required, the EFB solution itself is not "certified" per se. It may be that the "certification" is obtainable by any software that demonstrates to the FSDO, on any given date, that it does the things shown on the FAA's Job Aid applicable.

But like I said, I am confused.
 
Dave,
I've been using Seattle Avionics Voyager software on my fujitsu tablet PC for a couple of years. It's got the all of the charts - in both scanned and digital versions- and all of the plates. I also have it connected to a bluetooth Wxworx receiver for weather. I've been very happy with it.
http://seattleavionics.com/default.aspx

If displaying charts in "heads up" mode is important to you, make sure you check with each vendor. Some of them can't provide a heads up view with scanned charts or weather displayed.
 
Thanks Dave. That's a choise I have to make: the Chartbook on the link or the Fijitsu 1630 for instance. On the link, they show the Fijitsu as being over $4,000. I've shopped a bit and found they can be purchased much cheaper.
As far as nav data source, I've flown with Flightprep software for several years; so, I'm probably leaning toward staying with it.

Best,

Dave
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Sorry, I couldn't find the old thread. Thinking of subscribing to an electronic chart solution again. I had Chart Case before with all VFR, IFR (high and low enroute), terminal and approaches before. They have a tablet PC with all this on it called Chartbook. Looks like $1,795 all inclusive; then annual subscription of about $350 to keep updated using FAA charts.
http://www.flightprep.com/rootpage.php?page=HomeEFB

Jepp View seems to be much more expensive but they don't cite cost on the web page anywhere I can find. IIRC the annual subscription alone for national charts was over $1,000.

Can anyone tell me about these systems. I can put the Chartcase electronic charts on my Dell laptop, but it's too big to manage in the cockpit and the screen bleached out in bright sunlight.

Anyway, I'd appreciate the collective's thoughts!

Best,

Dave
Click to expand...
I run Jeppview FlightDeck on a Q1 but the only reason I went with that is they are the only source for approach charts on my MFD. The cost for the MFD subscription is $900/yr (up from $850 in the past) and that includes FlightDeck on up to 3 PCs plus paper Low Enroutes. I don't know what it would cost to add paper Hi Enroutes but they are included in electronic form with JeppView. I'm not terribly impressed with the functionality of FlightDeck though and from what I've seen, there are other options for EFB that are easier to use. FlighDeck also seems to be a better choice if you are using Jepps flight planner (FlitetStar) as that can pre-configure the EFB for a trip.
 
gismo said:
I run Jeppview FlightDeck on a Q1 but the only reason I went with that is they are the only source for approach charts on my MFD. The cost for the MFD subscription is $900/yr (up from $850 in the past) and that includes FlightDeck on up to 3 PCs plus paper Low Enroutes. I don't know what it would cost to add paper Hi Enroutes but they are included in electronic form with JeppView. I'm not terribly impressed with the functionality of FlightDeck though and from what I've seen, there are other options for EFB that are easier to use. FlighDeck also seems to be a better choice if you are using Jepps flight planner (FlitetStar) as that can pre-configure the EFB for a trip.
Click to expand...

Yes, I remember you talking about that before. I'll probably stay with the Chartcase because I know it so well. Just the tablet PC on which to display it now seems to be in the balance.

Best,

Dave
 
SCCutler said:
Dave, I am still pretty interested in the Flight Cheetah, and finally hoodwinked EdFred into buying one as teh official PoA Guinea Pig. They appear to have the best pricing for full chart options, and the software appears to be pretty versatile.
Click to expand...

I've flown behind the Flight Cheetah 190 and was not impressed. It crashed way too often for my tastes.

I bought the Seattle Avionics Skypad with their Voyager software. The one thing I like most about the software (other than it hasn't crashed even once yet) is that all the charts are geo-referenced. The Flight Cheetah does not geo-reference approach plates.

Seattle Avionics also offers a lifetime software subscription. I have all the high altitude and low altitude IFR charts, VFR sectionals, terminal area charts and approach plates, for the entire US - for life (mine or the company, I guess). I also thought, all things considered, that the price was reasonable. I did get the solid state hard drive option too.
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Yes, I remember you talking about that before. I'll probably stay with the Chartcase because I know it so well. Just the tablet PC on which to display it now seems to be in the balance.

Best,

Dave
Click to expand...

There are things I really like about the "Q1 Ultra Premium" I'm using and a few drawbacks.

Pro:

Very bright screen on full brightness.

Battery life is really good, I get 6+ hours per charge.

Programmable "power" switch can be set to hibernate instead of shutting down (significantly reduces boot up time and puts you right back where you left off).

Chicklet keyboard is usable for light typing once you get used to it. Also works well for entering IDs without using the stylus.

Full PC functionality (you can run most any PC program).

Programmable "quick key" (I have that set to start FlightDeck.

Bluetooth plus multiple USB.

Cons:

Screen isn't quite as large as a NACO approach chart.

Adjusting screen brightness isn't easy to do if it's way too dim (you need to see the screen to make an adjustment).

Uses a 1.8" hard drive. SSDs are available but they cost more than the 2.5" size for the same capacity and IIRC 32GB is the largest available.

Default orientation is landscape which doesn't work well with approach charts. This can be changed in the setup but then the keyboard and other buttons are in the "wrong" places.
 
KLRDMD said:
I've flown behind the Flight Cheetah 190 and was not impressed. It crashed way too often for my tastes.

I bought the Seattle Avionics Skypad with their Voyager software. The one thing I like most about the software (other than it hasn't crashed even once yet) is that all the charts are geo-referenced. The Flight Cheetah does not geo-reference approach plates.

Seattle Avionics also offers a lifetime software subscription. I have all the high altitude and low altitude IFR charts, VFR sectionals, terminal area charts and approach plates, for the entire US - for life (mine or the company, I guess). I also thought, all things considered, that the price was reasonable. I did get the solid state hard drive option too.
Click to expand...


Solid state drive or spinning hard drive on the flight cheetah?
 
Well, we'll see. I've got a 430 anyway, so I am just carrying it for legalities.
 
I have Seattle Avionics SkyPad as well. I have been amazingly happy with the unit and with the support of the team at Seattle.

I now find the SkyPad to be an integral part of my flight planning and my in flight "mission critical" equipment. In-flight, the SkyPad simply works. I am an active CFII and knowing I can count on the SkyPad is of the upmost importance. On past discussions, I have shared a full review of the SkyPad. I will summarize it here by sharing that, at 45 years old, I was definitely a cautiously late adopter of this technology. Now, I am a big supporter of the concept of EFBs and of the SkyPad in particular.

Regardless of the software, make sure to get the SSD drive and to get the brightest screen the vendor offers. The SkyPad is 300 Nits. It is readable in direct sunlight however, I do have to focus a bit on the unit to fully absorb the data. My personal view is that 1,000 NITs is readable at a glance in direct sunlight.

The offerings are evolving so quickly that I think a new discussion on the topic once a month or every other month is perfectly reasonable. Good discussion.

Doug
 
Dave Siciliano said:
It's one of the first things on this link:
http://www.flightprep.com/rootpage.php?page=chartbookpromo
Says

And lists what that means.

If Flight Cheetah has all that stuff, I'll take a look.

Best,

Dave
Click to expand...

Read through all that, and you see why I am confused. They say a whole lot, without saying much of anything; I think they are (in essence) saying the system does all that they say it will do, and that if you get the FSDO approval, you can use it in 135 ops. I think these guys are busy re-writing the health care bill!

I sent an email to Flight Cheetah to ask them, because I sure can't tell.

Now, Dave, since you've been using Flightprep, that alone may be a compelling reason to stick with Chart Case.
 
SCCutler said:
Read through all that, and you see why I am confused. They say a whole lot, without saying much of anything;
Click to expand...

Are you saying they should run for political office :smile:

I went back and read it too; whole lot of words that really lead nowhere. Oh well. Thanks for confirming my opinion.

Since I still purchase enroute charts when I have the electronic version, I'll call Jepp also. Their subscription seems to include those. There seem to be a lot of EFB nav data solutions, but all seem to have downsides: Jepp seems to be costs. But if I add in what I pay for supplemental charts with Chartcase, the price difference may not be as much as I had thought.

Best,

Dave
 
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